I was thinking of replacing the stock stem with a Thompson, Hope, Nukeproof offering, but am I an idiot for paying 10x as much for a non-brand basic stem?

IMO top places not to waste money:
– stems
– drivetrain above SLX
– saddles with fancy rails
– Kashima anything

Stems were on top not by accident

I agree with the above, especially the drivetrain. I’ve only ever bought fancy stems second hand.

Fancy stems look nice, but that’s about it ime.

Seat post on my PlanetX Carbon Evo Disc weighs the same as cheap gas pipe so best bang for buck weight saving spot. Elsewhere other than wheels I won’t even bother. I can save a tiny amount on a stem for not much money and the same on Bars but being honest if I wanted super light I should have chosen a better place to start.

Stems – I’ve had Renthal, Hope, Syntace, Burgtec, Thomson etc. I love a nice stem. Total waste of money buying new mind, I’ve bought all of them used for around half price and as stems don’t really wear sold them all on for barely any loss and sometimes a few quid profit. Suppose someone has to buy them new to facilitate magpie vultures like me though.

I’ve got a Pro stem. It’s been fine.

Think the HoD has an Easton stem that was very cheap in the sale.

Just to provide a counter argument, ask your heaviest and most muscular friend to put his weight onto the bars and then shift his weight from one hand to the other. Stems do twist under dynamic loading. Maybe more expensive stems twist less, I wouldn’t like to say. But they’re not all created equal.

Maybe more expensive stems twist less, I wouldn’t like to say. But they’re not all created equal.

My money would be on the cheap ones that weigh more twisting less.

As has been said about stems, don’t buy new. The better and more popular ones (Hope/Thomson) tend to have aftermarket mounts created for them for Garmins, lights etc – you’re unlikely to get something similar for a cheaper stem with a non standard mount width.

Seatposts – definitely worth upgrading. Thomson clamps just work, or go high end like a Kent Eriksen Ti for weight saving and comfort benefits.

No, basically. You can get excellent inexpensive ones. Pro FRS is a fantastic budget stem frinstance. And so much of the “upgrade” is just about perception- like, one of the bike mags once managed to test the exact same stem, logo’d up by 2 different brands. The less respected brand stem was “too flexy”, the expensive one was “rock solid”

Thomson are a special case, since they actually make pretty bad expensive stuff. Still the only company in the world that thinks stem faceplates are a consumable and that it’s reasonable for them to break…

Just to provide a counter argument, ask your heaviest and most muscular friend to put his weight onto the bars and then shift his weight from one hand to the other. Stems do twist under dynamic loading. Maybe more expensive stems twist less, I wouldn’t like to say. But they’re not all created equal.

TBF more of the flex will be in that thin walled aluminium (or carbon) tube thingy your buff mate is heaving on, flex isn’t necessarily a bad thing.
Generally more money on a stem tends to buy less weight and/or prettier colours and logos, they’re seldom sold on their stiffness.

Waste money on bars before a blingy new stem.

There are plenty of other places to spend money on ‘upgrades’ that have more benefits.
That said, I have a Newmen stem on my bike, weighs 64g but still seems as stiff as the Thomson (140g) it replaced. When you are chasing a light but still rideable build all the grams add up and savings like that help.

Wife’s mtb has a Synchros Hixon Carbon bar/stem one piece setup too.

The only non-dropper seatpost I ever managed to not break for the life of the bike was a Thomson. Worth spending money for a good saddle clamp at least.

Seatposts – definitely worth upgrading. Thomson clamps just work

I just bought a £20 Deda seatpost, the clamp is just as good as (possibly better than) my Thomson

I found it unnerving & actually comical how a Funn Nduro stem twisted under not much load

Replaced with 2nd hand fancy Deity one and that seems to hold true

I remember paying for a nice 2nd hand Thomson stem to replace a cheap Raceface one, I could actually really tell how it flexed less, I hadn’t noticed the flex before, but it was real.

Anyone who has cracked a Thomson faceplate is a ham fisted gorilla 🙂

and now I’m looking for second hand stems that I don’t actually need…..

Yes, with caveats.

Stems : yes some really are stiffer than others. And stem flex is bad. The OEM specialized enduro one I had made the bike feel horrible and I couldn’t work out what war wrong. Swapped to an Easton Havoc (the opposite extreme and you could anchor a zeppelin with it) to see and it was night and day.

Withing the realms of stiff enough there’s less difference between Hope, Thompson etc but if something doesn’t feel right it’s worth investigating a wider or taller stem.

Bar’s absorbing vibrations is different. and there’s a difference between absorbing higher frequency vibrations and lower frequency flexing.

The expensive Ritchey bar and stem on my road bike claimed to have vertical compliance built into the stem, which means you get more even stiffness between the hoods and the drops (because the matching bars themselves can be stiff). I’m skeptical but it does feel nicely stiff compared to some setups which flex when sprinting from the drops, and is much more comfortable than the OEM setup they replaced.

Seat posts: decent weight savings to be had over cheap ones. And some of them are really quite clever. I’ve got a V.1 Canyon VCLS seat post and compared to other ‘solid’ posts it’s magic. And like bars and stems, no it’s not the same as letting 5psi out of your tyres.

My experience with buying used stems has not been the best, as most of them had screws grossly over torqued during their lives.

I prefer to just buy a reasonably cheap new one.
Pro Koryaks are just great. Have 3 of them

they look nice, buy it if you like looking at it. if not dont bother.

I have one Thompson stem (it was a gift) – biggest PITA on my whole bike. Bloody bolts are so tiny – seriously 2.5mm bolts on a stem? Wouldn’t waste that amount of my own money. All my other stems use 4mm or 5mm bolts and they all seem to do the job…

It’s not worth fitting fancy brands, if you’re bothered about weight some stems are absolute lumps. Usually OE ones are a reasonable weight, as forging is a pretty sensible way to make a stem. I had a Truvativ Husselfelt stem that I swapped out and saved about half the weight, but didn’t spend much on the replacement.

Thompson in particular crack a lot, cost a lot, and weigh quite a lot (not as much as that Truvativ but still). It’s really only worthwhile putting light stuff on if you’re putting the whole bike on a diet, and even then expect mild disappointment at the end of the exercise.

Oh I’ve never noticed an issue with stiffness by the way. In a short stem I’d think/hope it was minimal, I have had some stems that were probably a bit more stiff, but at the time hard to judge as one bike had QR front end, 32mm stanchions, the other 20mm through axle and 35mm stanchions.

martinkiely

Member
I have one Thompson stem (it was a gift) – biggest PITA on my whole bike. Bloody bolts are so tiny – seriously 2.5mm bolts on a stem? Wouldn’t waste that amount of my own money. All my other stems use 4mm or 5mm bolts and they all seem to do the job…

You see the “ham fisted” comment above? That’s why Thomson decided to use smaller screws

Ive got Husslefelt, Hope, RSP, Nukeproof Neutron, Syntace and can’t feel the difference in any of them riding.

Seatposts… I have to agree Thomson is least hassle changing a saddle and secure. The droppers though don’t work any better for riding than my Brand-X (but no play like my Marzocchi) but they are engineering art. (and WAY WAY better than a Reverb because they actually perform the primary function of a dropper and go up and down reliably)

Headsets and BB…. I always either go one end or the other… Nukeproof headset works fine (for £25 for both ends) but needs more care and bearings than Hope…

drivetrain above SLX

XT shifters are something like £8 more than SLX, and they have a click ball-spring-detent arrangement on downshifts. For me this makes for a brilliant feel in use, so it’s well worth it. The mech looks identical to SLX but my XT has adjustable clutch tension where as SLX seems not to. This is also a bit of a plus although the price difference is more.

Stems though – even cheap ones are fairly light, and look ok, so I don’t worry about them. I’d avoid painted ones though as the paint always comes off and corrosion works its way underneath.

In my world for your No.1 bike then hell yeah.

Also this ^ XT is much nicer than SLX and XTR much nicer again, by some margin and also lasts longer.

XT shifters are something like £8 more than SLX, and they have a click ball-spring-detent arrangement on downshifts. For me this makes for a brilliant feel in use, so it’s well worth it. The mech looks identical to SLX but my XT has adjustable clutch tension where as SLX seems not to. This is also a bit of a plus although the price difference is more.

I’m still on 11sp (and can’t see a reason to change) … but XT is often more discounted than XT so often same price.
Some of the differences are 100% cosmetic… others it’s a better material and others it’s simply disabling a feature. One thing Shimano are phenomenally good at is making identical stuff look different through shading. I’ve got some SLX 68x cranks and some XT 78x and they look pretty different .. when you put them side by side though they are identical except the graphics and SLX has proper steel pedal inserts and the XT is threaded directly into the alloy. The 68x calipers were also identical… I actually created a franken-caliper which was 1/2 and 1/2…(stuck piston and limited time)but again its just graphics and the split pin different and M7000 levers just had the bite point adjust screw replaced with a safety screw… Whereas M68x levers had more plastic.

The M7000 rear mech though is different material… and spring to the M8000. The double click on XT shifters is fantastic though and worth the difference if there is one… IMHO.

scruff

Member

Anyone who has cracked a Thomson faceplate is a ham fisted gorilla 🙂

Thomson’s official line on this is that it’s perfectly normal for stems to break in normal use. Strange but true.

I don’t drive a posh car or own a big watch and so have no other means of demonstrating my worth to alpha males.

So yes, they are worth it.

I’d echo TINAS’ comment, there are some properly rubbish cheap stems (I had the same issue with the spesh one) but you don’t need to spend a fortune putting it right ( and it does make a difference)

This Specialized stem is horribly lacking in stiffness:

I didn’t notice until the trails dried out but once they did it was very obvious. I replaced it with one of these, which I’d just taken off another bike:

So much better – I could push hard into turns without the bars moving independently of the bike. I don’t think it’s price that matters with stems, it’s second moment of inertia – or basically fatness.

I saved a significant amount of weight by changing bars, seatpost and stem.. Being a tightwad I did not spend a lot of money but chose my components carefully

<div class=”bbp-reply-author”>mashr
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martinkiely

Member
I have one Thompson stem (it was a gift) – biggest PITA on my whole bike. Bloody bolts are so tiny – seriously 2.5mm bolts on a stem? Wouldn’t waste that amount of my own money. All my other stems use 4mm or 5mm bolts and they all seem to do the job…

You see the “ham fisted” comment above? That’s why Thomson decided to use smaller screws

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Err – yep. I’ve got and use a torque wrench at home – do you carry one around with you when you go out for a ride or do you (like most of us) use a multi-tool on which tiny allen keys are a PITA to sort? I knew that someone would pass that sort of comment… Still don’t see any excuse for screw head that small – and no, as a direct answer – I’m not ham fisted.

Nobody accused you of working like a hammer thrower so don’t need to get wound up.

The hex keys on my multi-tool are absolutely fine to use, so not seeing the issue and didn’t have any issue when I had my Thomson stem. The ‘excuse’ Thomson give is that bigger heads encourage people to increase torque – makes sense to me when they know their stem doesn’t like such torque and they are happy to stand by their design.

I was thinking of replacing the stock stem with a Thompson, Hope, Nukeproof offering, but am I an idiot for paying 10x as much for a non-brand basic stem?

What’s the bike, whats the current stem?

Ive never noticed a problem with a “cheap” stem, but then ive never bought and off brand OE stem. On One do some stems that look “fine”, i dont know if they are clones of, say race face or nukeproof, of if they come out of the same Taiwanese factory, but they look on a par with them.

Ive had a lot of really crap seaposts. The design of the clamp is most important, most reputable brands are now copying or adapting the Thomson style two bolt rocker clamp.
Again, ive bought a titus elquapo seapost (waiting to be installed), that looks like it will hold the saddle well, but i would expect it to bend in the end. The only fixed seat posts ive not had ending up bent have been Thomsons.

overall, you might notice a slight improvement, but there are better places to spend 50-70 quid

Get wound up? Perhaps you need to re-read your original comment. Despite what some engineer at Thompson who never has to sort out a bike in the middle of nowhere in shitting down rain thinks, in MY opinion tiny allen head bolts have no place on a stem. I’ve never had any bolts fail on it – perhaps because I’m not ham-fisted – if anything with bolts that small you are more likely to under, not over tighten them when using a multi-tool for fear of damaging them.

Despite what some engineer at Thompson who never has to sort out a bike in the middle of nowhere in shitting down rain thinks, in MY opinion tiny allen head bolts have no place on a stem

Seconded. I’ve cursed those bolts many times. It doesn’t matter how good your multi-tool hex keys when you’re trying to straighten a muddy stem in the dark. For sure a torque wrench at home but on the trail end up under torqued and moving again or rounded off as can’t get the dirt out of the bottom (which again is easier to sort on a properly sized bolt head)