the thing that got me last time – and still does – is the amount of shit they leave behind once they've moved on. not many of you may be familiar with Thorndon Common, but those of you who are may remember the shit hole state it was left in after they moved on.

human shit, fire pits, household waste, plastic bags full of stuff, nappies… it took ages till all remnants of their camping expedition had been removed.

why should my money go toward clearing up their shit once they've moved on?

and i didn't use to live that far away from Cray's Hill – the UK's largest pikey camp. my mate' nan still does and the locals (who have grown up their, paid their coucil taxes and generally cared about the area for years) suffer lots of anti-social problems because of it. she's often phoned the police because kids were jumping gardens, kicking balls against cars and generally beiong little shits.

the old bill don't do anything about it because they're scared of the reaction they'll recieve upon entering the site.

and compared to someone who wants all fixie riders removed from the streets of london, my views are perhaps more in line with those of main stream society.

and i'm not some conservative fascist, i just feel that for someone to be treated well by others they shouldn't be complete wänkers and **** up everyone else's environment.

I have had lots of mixed experiences with traveller types, we have a permanent camp near us and seem to get lots of travelling one's coming through, some nice some not so

I have had lots of mixed experiences with people who live in houses, some nice some not so

It must be getting very hard for the travelling ones as most of the places they were when we were kids have barriers etc, I often wonder what has happened to most of them as there's nowhere near as many as when I was a kid

and i'm not some conservative fascist

No, I'd say you're pretty much a full on one…

Why is it acceptable to have a racist insult in the title of this thread?

Would you be equally happy to use the N word or the P word?

The point I'm making which you no doubt understood was that I don't understand why one group who make a lifestyle choice so far out of the norm get specialist treatment

What you have to conform to your view of normal to get the same human rights as you? What specialist treatment are they asking for ? I don’t believe the majority can tell the minority what is and what is not an acceptable way to live their life.

the government decided the much more extreme lifestyle choice of travellers should be accomodated. Still haven't heard a valid reason why this would be. In an ideal world we'd all live the lifestyle of our choice. We're not in that place and have to live together which means we all need to moderate our lifestyle choices so as not to detract from others choices to much

Yes I can tell from your post that you have clearly moderated your lifestyle to accommodate others choices your humanitarinism shines through like a beacon of tolerance and cooperative living for us all to aspire too 🙄

Why is it acceptable to have a racist insult in the title of this thread?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gypsy

I don’t believe the majority can tell the minority what is and what is not an acceptable way to live their life.

I'd say that to a large extent it's a necessity in some form for any social species.

What specialist treatment are they asking for ? I don’t believe the majority can tell the minority what is and what is not an acceptable way to live their life.

Nonsense. When did it become acceptable for me to enter someone elses property without their permission, live there as long as I choose, dump my crap all over the place and then leave expecting the landowner to carry the cost and responsibility for my behaviour?

Incidentally, could you and talky email me your home addresses? I think my chums at Thetford would like to know of a place where they are so welcome when they move on. And no I'm not joking, I really mean it I will gladly pass your details on to them, and I promise that I will do so should you provide them to me.

Talkemada – Member

and i'm not some conservative fascist

No, I'd say you're pretty much a full on one…

brilliant… and with that i'm off down to the local NPD headquaters to pay my monthly membership fees…..

schwanz.

schwanz

Boogah.

If you live in an area that is inhabited by travellers then by that token they clearly aren't travelling are they?

The word is infested, like with fleas or other parasites

Just for the record, in both legal and moral terms, how far away do we think all this malarkey is from digging and riding trails on land you aren't supposed to be on? (guilty a little bit on first count and massively on the second BTW)

LHS:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gypsy

Tinkers sounds quite quaint.

Whatever you call them, and whatever you think of their travelling ways, the problem I have is with them leaving a trail of dstruction and wake of rubbish behind them.

Why should 'we' feel bad and be chastised for making comments about 'them'? Why can't 'they' just behave in a more socially responsible way? 'They hardly' do much to endear themselves to the societies that they move into and leave behind to clean up the mess.

LHS – What does that prove?

BB the council has a duty to provide sites for gypsies/travellers it is not their fault your council does not do this? Perhaps you should complain to them that they do not provide anything appropriate with bins and say refuse collection.
I have lived with travellers and gypsies in the past and some of them are ok and some of them are c0cks i have lived with non travellers and feel the same about them and MTBers who clearly never take their bikes where they are not allowed to go . do not damage national parks . countryside and never leave any sign that they have been there when they leave like say inner tubes in trees

http://www.questroute.com/onlinegames/fighting/pikey.php

Junkyard you and your keyboard skills… 🙄

perhaps you should don one of these, just to show there's no prejudice, then nip down for a chat

"Now listen here my good man….."

My typos rarely detract from peoples ability to get what I meant but I was rushing to leave work! surely a noble cause but I corrected it for you.
Perhaps you could petition STW for a spell check I am sure they would be delighted to hear from you 😉

BB the council has a duty to provide sites for gypsies/travellers it is not their fault your council does not do this?

Thanks for the patronising lesson, but what makes you think there aren't any where I live? There are in fact 3 within 10 miles. You can easily spot them, they are the places with burnt out cars all around in the surrounding lanes, and which are no go areas for the Police.

do no tdamage national praks . countryside and never leave any sign that they ahve been there when they eave like say inner tubes in trees

May I suggest that you try to refrain from doing that which you accuse me of, you know sweeping generalisations? Personally I am extremly careful not to cause any damage or impact where I ride and I certainly never leave anything behind knowingly. On the other hand were I to do so, it might also be said that I do contribute to the costs incurred in sorting it out. So thats that one cleared up. Next fatuous argument please

Personally I'm really interested to hear more of your time with "gypsies". Sounds more like you've been away with the fairies frankly! My experience is that as an outsider you'll be lucky to get away without serious harm if you "trespass" on their patch…. (oh the irony!) Or are you actually talking about "new age interlopers"?

If you are having a chat with them, tell them not to bother returning my lawnmover, I've purchased a new one!

I sometimes despair at how much ignorance there still is about Travellers, Gypsies, Tinkers, Romanies, New Agers etc etc. Especially on this forum that normally has a good reputation for reasoned & intelligent debate

There are some statements here that were probably made in pre-war Germany, have we learned nothing?

The people who made the god awful mess are a world away from traditional Gypsies and Romanies. It's no wonder this sector of our community resent people not from within their own community coming into their areas given the racism, hatred & abuse they suffer. I witnessed much of this in the 60's & 70's when there were no laws to protect them.It made my blood run cold to see how these people were victimised and physically abused for nothing more than belonging to a seperate group. From this systematic abuse sprang a community that closed itself off from its abusers and became very insular, and still is.

My wife's Mother has roots in the Romany community, (and yes she has always had a house that is the kept in absolute spotless condition) But has hidden her roots for fear of abuse and victimisation.

Keep the hate & bile focussed on those who are actually causing the harm & destruction and do not paint many different sectors of the population with the same brush of hatred, in that way lies madness.

I've no problem with people living an alternate lifestyle from others and I'm not judging their choices. I just want to know why a certain small section of the population who have a fairly well deserved reputation for causing other people problems get preferential treatment in the form of campsites, special education liason officers and all sorts of other extras that certainly are not available to everyone else living a significantly different lifestyle to the norm.

What you have to conform to your view of normal to get the same human rights as you?

Who mentionned human rights, I'm asking questions about extra entitlements not available to the majority. As for my view of normal, most people do surprisingly enough live in one place which in someway they have purchased or rented, not my personal view, just the way it is.

Yes I can tell from your post that you have clearly moderated your lifestyle

That's just insulting, you've judged my lifestyle from a few words, please don't do that. And before someone says I'm judging the lifestyle of the travellers, I'm not, I'm judging from personal experience the impact that lifestyle has on other people and the extra support they get. If there are travellers out there (and I'm sure there will be some) that can find somewhere to stop each night that isn't on someone's land and they don't leave a massive mess behind and manage their childrens education then fine, they should have every right to continue that existance. If they can't manage that then no they don't have the right to the lifestyle of their choice any more than I have the right to live in a large house with lots of land around it achieved by evicting the people who already live there.

So it's ok for me to camp in someone elses garden, break into their property, dump crap all over their lawn then **** off to do it to someone else?

Cool.

I've told you lot before, you can't call these people 'gypo's. Due to political correctness they should be now known as,
Caravan
Utilising
Nomadic
Traveller
(S)

My experience is that as an outsider you'll be lucky to get away without serious harm if you "trespass" on their patch…

Rode past an illegal gypsy camp on my way home this evening. One of the lads actually ran down the track to make sure that their two dogs were causing me no bother. It's amazing what a smile and a few pleasant words can achieve. Their camp is no beauty spot, that's for sure, in contrast to another I know 10 miles up the drove. Something drives people to want to live in those kind of conditions. I don't know what it is, but I don't envy them.

preferential treatment in the form of campsites, special education liason officers and all sorts of other extras

I guess the theory is that with support from society you might encourage future generations to return to the fold. If their children are poorly educated and the only opportunites shown to them are criminal endeavours, their future is set. WRT campsites the other alternative is to have mass trespass, not very manageable.

Jon, they may not have the right to live as they are by law, but they ARE doing it. I really don't see how you can stop the lifestyle. Sure you can take their homes away, but then you have homeless people. You can harass them continually, but then you're only distancing them further. From the little I've seen, it does not seem an especially pleasant existence.

I've a friend who works with disadvantaged kids, both from local gypsy camps and the council estates. The gypsy kids are apparently much nicer and better behaved…

what really gets at me, is the local travellers to me, turn up in the tesco where we do our weekly shop, while i go round with my kids, pay for what i want, they come in, shout swear and generally annoy other shoppers, then help themselves to what they like, give it to the kids who then bugger off out the door without being challenged, and pay for the odd item, and dont get me started on the mob going round nicking copper, who put mine and colleagues lives at risk, when we go to operate high voltage switchgear……………..

I don't have a great deal of sympathy for these people, they are part of the lumpen proletariat. They detract from their social and material environment and they contribute little but cause lots of damage at everyone else's expense. I take a similar view to the Lloyd Blankfeins and Philip Greens of this world, who do enormous damage in the pursuit of self-interest.

seems to me that for every nice traveller there are umpteen robbing thieving shit-in-your-plant-pot travellers causing grief and costing the taxpayer money giving nothing back to society apart from shonky driveways and a happy scrappy in hooky metal
.
majority rules
arseholes

I don’t believe the majority can tell the minority what is and what is not an acceptable way to live their life.

Any place I've seen tinkers in Scotland they've left behind them a filthy, disgusting mess, and generally local communities are inflicted with increased crime and vandalism, with the police either unwilling or unable to do anything about it. It's not about telling them how to live their lives, it's about them not making life miserable for the people they inflict themselves on.

Admittedly there are plenty of non-tinkers too who are just as bad of course, if not worse. You see them in every large town or city. Anti-social scum.

The problem with providing sites is that there are two distinct groups, and they don't co-exist very well. One's the original Rom, the other's a more recent arrival, the Irish tinkers or diddycoys, or pikey, if you like. Swindon provided a really nice site years ago, close to a cycle route. When I went through there after the families had been evicted, the site looked like part of Kosovo, totally trashed, every facility either smashed or ripped off the walls and stolen. Several burned out cars, dozens of empty gas cylinders, (why do they dump them? Don't you get refills?). Locally we have a site that's been in existence for donkey's years, but a few years ago the original families bought a small plot alongside the main A4 and set up there, because they couldn't tolerate the noise, aggression and damage caused by more recent arrivals. The little lane that leads past the site was totally fenced off because of the trash that was being dumped on it, I counted four burned out cars, a couple of wrecked trailers, and more gas bottles. Guess which ethnic group caused the damage in both instances, and which moved out, despite having lived happily there for twenty or more years. The Rom simply will not share with them, and I can't say I blame them. They are a genuine distinct racial group who've been repeatedly persecuted for centuries, and now they have to put up with crap from another itinerant group who expect the moon on a stick and repay the kindness like chimps throwing their own excrement. Irish residents are, however, perfectly happy to see the pikeys move over here, for obvious reasons.

Especially on this forum that normally has a good reputation for reasoned & intelligent debate

Do you have a link to an example?

What I find most depressing about this type of thread, is the fact that hardly anyone has actually bothered to take the time to try and work out exactly why some travelling people act the way they do. No thought or consideration for the oppression and intolerance many of these folk have suffered in Ireland (if it is indeed the Irish 'Tinkers' we're talking about), and the subsequent fear, xenophobia that they have endured for generations ever since. It's small wonder, therefore, that they can be very insular and mistrusting of others, and react in a hostile manner. It's defensive behaviour; they attempt to show how tough they are, so that they can dissuade others from attacking their communities. The attitudes shown here are perfect examples of the very xenophobia, mistrust and hatred that they regularly face, wherever they go.

These are displaced, disaffected people who have no sense of belonging. No-one wants them as neighbours, and very few people act in an open and welcoming manner toward them. No surprise that they show little respect for whatever place they are 'allowed' to stop at.

The 'problem' can only be solved if there is understanding and tolerance on all sides. Attitudes such as those displayed on here are damaging and simply exacerbate an already difficult situation.

Have a heart. They're Human Beings. If you'd been through what some of them have, then maybe you'd be less than 'perfect'…

Got a little gathering near me. Spotted a new (10 registration) Audi A4.

No-one wants them as neighbours, and very few people act in an open and welcoming manner toward them. No surprise that they show little respect for whatever place they are 'allowed' to stop at.

Sorry, but it's the other way round. Nobody wants them because of the way they behave, not vice versa. There are plenty of groups of folk who could claim to be badly treated over the centuries, but still behave as valued members of the community, and are all the more welcome for it.

Sorry, but it's the other way round.

Not both ways round?

No, not in my experience at least. Where towns have tried to make them welcome by providing facilities, those facilities have almost always been trashed. I saw it happen where I grew up. I'm sure there are decent ones, but they do seem to be in the minority.

its not that they are pikeys, its the fact that the amount of shit they leave behind when they move on , the damage they cause getting into the places they ,for want of a better word squat, and all the other crap that goes with them , when they visit, if they obey the law like most good people, then there would be no problem , but they dont, its there own fault the get all the stick, fukem all.