I’ve now had both brother in-laws tell me that on a recent ride they pedalled less than the person this was with due to superior wheel bearings

One swore by “sealed bearings” the other “a better group set” in this case Ultrega. The other bikes were a Womans Trek 1.2 and some sort of Aluminium Giant Defy.

What do you think?

no

In theory a half decent cup and cone bearing in good condition will have less resistance than a cartridge bearing hub.
It’s not the bearings that cause the drag, it’s the seals, and 4 cartridge bearings have 8 seals. 2 cup and cone bearings have 2 seals…..
So in theory a £30 Shimano hub will have less drag then a £200 hope.

Note – I believe this theory. 🙂

Lost in the noise. Unless the other bearings have something wrong with them then drops vs hoods makes more difference.

All brother’s in law are idiots.
It seems to be some sort of immutable rule of the universe.

Even if they do, assuming they are properly maintained, it’ll be a watt or two (maybe two or three seconds over a 25 mile time trial.) No way it’d be noticeable on anything other than a test rig.

Having said that, I do think there’s a noticeable difference in feel between cartridge and cup and cone.

only if the person they were with had a bike with jammed up/faulty bearings.

The clothes they were wearing would have made more of a difference…

Balls (literally 😀 )

Unless it’s seized up, normal human being wouldn’t notice a difference.

Shimano hubs can be cheap because they’re simple with cage bearings (though maybe a faff on maintenance and getting preload right). Many cheap generic hubs are decent quality, just maybe a bit heavier and made by big names anyway. The bearings themselves will be same spec, just an expensive version might boast a fancy brand of bearing. It may be more durable, but won’t make you go faster.

Maybe they pedalled less because their wheels were rounder. That can make a big difference. 🙄

He’s talking Bollocks, difference will be inperceivable against the background of wind, tyre resistance.

Maybe they pedalled less because they were in a different gear.

You mean cheap hubs that come out of a chinese sweat shop with cartridge bearings. Yes, they’ll be very very (very very) slightly slower than a decent hub, like dura ace or record.

As I thought

Bizarley neither are idiots

One teachs bike maintenance (and building skills) the other is a combustion physicist

intelligent people can still be idiots in some subjects

Yes and no and yes.

Dad had some really cheap wheels on his first road bike, rolling downhill it was obvious they were MILES slower.

Then anything half decent will be much the same.

Then ceramic bearings at the top end will be quicker.

Surely the freewheel mechanism and any seals are more of an influence than bearings?
Surely to a factor of x lots, things like rider weight, fitness, technique, tyre rolling resistance, wheel and bike weight are all bigger factors?

Then ceramic bearings at the top end will be quicker.

Not really, most of the benefits of ceramic can be got by using a more suitable lubricant, and making sure that you’ve got the highest spec (roundest and run out) bearings you can. The actual ceramicness makes 3/8ths of no difference at all to drag.

Unless you only ever play with them on a test rig.

Dura Ace hubs roll quickest. Cup and cone bearings and a very quiet freehub.

Tyre pressure, wheel weight, rider position, clothing choice, weight of bike, style of clothing will all have a greater effect than hub bearings.

Marginal gains. Not Triamcinolone was it?

If you can see the other guy pedalling then you’re behind them, in which case you’ll be pedalling less because you’re drafting.

PP IS dead correct… My hopes 4 x 2rs seals so that’s 8. My cup and cone set correct zero seals… Seal being grease. I would do the calcs on seal and bearing loss but I have wine and cannot be arsed. Difference will be about the same as a big poo before ride.

Having tested this quite thoroughly, I found ceramics best closely followed by cup and cone,(nothing between shim and and Campag), dt240s, and then Miche hubs with generic cartridge bearings. The difference was more “than a few seconds” 😀

My Dura Ace hubs are smoother than my cartridge bearing Giant SLR hubs. But it is not a huge effect.

Its more important to have very heavy rims/tyres for the flywheel effect.

TheDoctor, how did you test? Results published anywhere?

I’d be surprised if it’s more than single digit watts between best and worst assuming all are in good condition.

they pedalled less than the person this was with

If someone is ‘pedalling less’ then both riders are more or less freewheeling and just using a few pedal strokes to maintain speed. I pedal less than my girlfriend to ride at the same speed down descents – sometimes I can freewheel past her while she’s pedalling. Its probably because I weight about 7 stone more than her and more attractive to gravity as a result.

A few pounds of spare tyre probably has more effect than a few quid at hub. 🙂

Roadies, eh ? And unless you’re racing, who gives a fig ?

So many other variables that determine rolling speed, not least how hard you pedal before you start rolling 🙂

Having tested this quite thoroughly, I found ceramics best closely followed by cup and cone,(nothing between shim and and Campag), dt240s, and then Miche hubs with generic cartridge bearings. The difference was more “than a few seconds”

How have you tested it? Serious question, I’m interested.

There is a clear difference between my Hope and XTR hubs. However hub drag is such a tiny force compared to everything else I don’t think it would ever be noticeable whilst riding.

That’s rather my take. It must make a difference, but whether that is percepitlve or significant is another question entirely.

Friction Facts have done some testing on this (protocol here). You do need to purchase the report. I’m sure I’ve see an article about it on CyclingTips but I can’t seem to find it, just the one on lube and seals (where they do extrapolate to hubs.) I don’t think there was more than single digit watts between the ones tested though for hub drag.

It’s not related directly to the quality of hubs, but whilst Googling for information about changing the cartridges in my Hope hubs, I came across someone’s description of their search and testing for their optimal grease for use in Hope freehubs; they felt that the stock marine grease used caused to much drag!

Roadies, eh ? And unless you’re racing, who gives a fig ?

The implication from brother in laws is that it really made a difference to the bike riding experience

Friction Facts have done some testing on this (protocol here). You do need to purchase the report. I’m sure I’ve see an article about it on CyclingTips but I can’t seem to find it, just the one on lube and seals (where they do extrapolate to hubs.) I don’t think there was more than single digit watts between the ones tested though for hub drag.

Great link. Best to worst hub is 1.35W. (edit damn just looked again that’s bottom brackets)

Rolling resistance here is in the 10 of Watts (well over 10)

Its a different testing regime but as expecting rolling resistance dwarfs bearing friction. Both of these are nothing compared to moving the air