- This topic has 58 replies, 25 voices, and was last updated 14 years ago by porterclough.
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are all MPs scum?
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kimbersFull Member
watch torry MP for brentwood insult the rest of us by claiming that being in work for 9-30 is an impossibility if you live as far from london as essex
makes you sick!to be fair it must be really awkward for him squeezing his corpulent bulk into his 1st class train seat
simonralli2Free MemberI think it is also a case of they know they can get away with it. People vote em in so we only have ourselves to blame collectively for not calling them to account. At the last election we knew how bad they all were but most got re-elected.
There are a tiny handful of OK ish ones.
kimbersFull Memberthe entire electorate should soil our ballot papers at the next one
Fresh Goods Friday 696: The Middling Edition
Latest Singletrack VideosFresh Goods Friday 696: The Middlin...coffeekingFree MemberMust admit, not wishing to side with anyone but….
I used to live 17 miles from work in a city. I had to get the 6:49 train in order to guarantee I could get to work for 9:00, simply due to the fact that you can’t rely on public transport and often trains are cancelled and these then screw up the later trains. Ultimately this is why I used to drive to work instead of using public transport – at least my delay was predictable and I had a comfy seat and didn’t get colds repeatedly. Likewise on the way home I could spend 2 hours due to overcrowded trains etc – in the end I started cycling as it was faster than the car even, but if you live 37 miles from work I have no doubt that its a pain in the neck.
He does seem to assume “normal” people dont have to get to places on time though lol.
richcFree Memberwhat so they can take that as passive approval? its a bit like boycotting the elections, as then they can think, ‘great we can really take the piss now’.
If you don’t vote, or worse spoil your paper then you really can’t/shouldn’t comment on the leaders/politics of the country as you have chosen not to have a voice/opinion but to instead gag yourself and then bend over and take it.
juanFree MemberIf you don’t vote, or worse spoil your paper
Well that is two different things. You don’t vote you don’t have your word. You spoil your paper you have your word to say. Because you made the effort to find 5 minutes to go to the voting poll.
richcFree Memberyes you have your word(s), unfortunately as far the the MP/political parties care it says, ‘I can’t read instructions’.
kimbersFull Memberoh no i meant soil my paper with bodily excreta
but what party to vote for, which one says they will completely overhaul mps wages and expenses and do you believe them?
richcFree Member**** if I know, and by the time we get to the general election I am sure some new scandal will be all over the papers.
Personally, I think if one party stays in power too long, they become so corrupt they eventually make themselves unelectable. Tories did this in the 90’s and its now Labours turn.
Proportional representation would be nice, however the Tories and Labour have so much to lose from that system they would never allow it to be voted through.
coffeekingFree MemberNone of them carry out what they say they will in the way that the people want, at least if we had a dictatorship we would have someone to be bitter about rather than having to blame each other for voting the morons in.
CountFree MemberThe sad obsession with a few MPs by so many people is laughable. There is a democratic way to remove MPs from power if you don’t like them. If you don’t like an of them, you can always stand yourself. In the interim, moaning like hell about their hours etc is daft. MPs work until very late at night, the parliamentary hours have traditionally been anti-social anyway but you rarely hear anyone mentioning that.
The vitriolic remarks about them all being “scum” is ridiculous, most MPs are paid a lot less than people on this forum and most of them give a lot more back than the people having a pop.
davidrFull MemberI think PR is the way forward. More parties represented, better debate, not just the two major parties scoring petty points. My wife is a Kiwi and she is impressed with the way it works over there.
BigDummyFree MemberWe also, by the standards of a vast number of countries, have pretty much no idea what “political corruption” means.
kimbersFull Membermost MPs are paid a lot less than people on this forum and most of them give a lot more back than the people having a pop.
balls! how much do you think the legions of carers nurses etc etc earn-
way less than any MP £64,766 plus £30k expenses?dunno what you are earning count but im not far over the national average with a good degree and 10 years experience and as a cancer research scientist thats not a bad wage at all
and with national average approx £26k the people earning millions skew that well above the median of approx £20k salaries
portercloughFree Membermost MPs are paid a lot less than people on this forum
I presume that’s a subtle joke I didn’t get?
I don’t think all MPs are scum, but there is a culture that has grown up at the House of Commons that they claim all the allowances they can get, partly this has been semi-official in the past as governments never like to increase MP’s pay, it looks bad, so instead they bump it up via all the various allowances.
This does however look very bad, and they appear to be completely out of touch – the stuff from outer London MPs about not being able to get to central London for work hours is utter tosh – yes it may be difficult but what about the millions of other commuters that manage it day in day out?
Like kimbers said, they seem to have the attitude that what they do is important, and by implication, everyone else doesn’t matter.
BigDummyFree MemberCan we re-phrase to catch what Count meant. A large number of us are paid considerably more than MPs are, even if you are not personally.
Anyone currently in care work or whatever who believes they can do the Home Secretary’s job has a straightforward way of proving it, of course. I am paid more than an MP’s basic and am pretty confident I could not. 🙂
ourmaninthenorthFull MemberPersonally, I think if one party stays in power too long
That one word says it all.
Increasingly, the dialogue is about who is in power, rather than which parties holds office. Power suggests that control and patronage are to be expected as normal; holding offices implies responsibility and duty on those in that privileged position.
For so long as politicians do what they do for power and are so overt with their statements on the same, the harder it will be to fight back.
We have seen this quite starkly in the last 10 years, as civil liberties have been hugely cut back by a paranoid and power-drunk government. As our apparent riches increased, so did our apathy; we took it lying down.
Now, the paranoia is worse: there are posters appearing on billboards across our towns and cities exhorting us to snitch on our neighbours and fellow citizens, and we find ourselves apparently powerless to object to the behaviour of a government bent on clinging onto its power by any menas. Demonstrate within a kilometre of Parliament? Not unless you ask the police (hardly impartial, are they).
And don’t get me stared on the pre-emptive demonising of the various anti-G20 movements (and, with it, homginising all marchers, protestors and demonstrators as anti-constiutitional pseudo-terrorists)….
portercloughFree MemberA large number of us are paid considerably more than MPs are
I very much doubt that also. Unless there’s an extremely high incidence of GPs or consultants here. Who else would earn £64k basic? City high flyers? Senior managers in large companies or public sector? Headteachers of large schools? Company directors? Very successful IT salespeople if they hit their targets? A few self employed contractors? Barristers?
Let’s consider who’s in the 25-40k bracket – nurses, teachers, computer programmers, road safety engineers, architects, accountants (unless they are partners), lawyers, middle managers, marketing managers, local government officers, basically the vast majority of graduate jobs.
ourmaninthenorthFull MemberNone of them carry out what they say they will in the way that the people want
They are representatives, not delegates. The idea is to avoid MPs being “bought” by influential (and rich) lobbyists, as in the US. Neil Hamilton showed this doesn’t always work.
parliamentary hours have traditionally been anti-social
There are many reasons I can think of for MPs being anti-social – see my post above – but I do think you mean “unsociable”…. 😉
most MPs are paid a lot less than people on this forum
I’m not paid a lot less, but I am paid less*. For the base salary, it’s not a job I would (irrespective of whether I could) do. For the sums that many make through the expenses system, it’s something I would do.
So, it leads to a simple conclusion: (1) raise the salary, index link it to an agreed inflationary measure (RPI or CPI) (2) do away with expenses altogether (3) have a free vote in the Commons for the remuneration committee which sets the annual MP’s salary. That’s about as fair and non-bureacratic as I can think of to get through this debacle.
*BD – a word of warning: salaries outside London are as bad as you think.
portercloughFree MemberAnyone currently in care work or whatever who believes they can do the Home Secretary’s job has a straightforward way of proving it, of course. I am paid more than an MP’s basic and am pretty confident I could not.
The Home Secretary, like all ministers, gets a ministerial salary on top of their MP’s salary.
http://www.parliament.uk/documents/upload/M06.pdf
Cabinet ministers get an extra 80k, junior ministers 40k. This is on top of their 64k MP salary. Plus of course whatever ‘extras’ they can claim for (free everything, basically).
BigDummyFree Membersalaries outside London are as bad as you think
Indeed. But you’d really struggle to get people to do MPs’ working hours in London for a Manchester salary…
😉
Porterclough – I understand that the Home Secretary gets substantially more than MPs basic. I still couldn’t do her job. I do not like the woman, and disagree fundamentally with a huge amount of what she ultimately does, but I am not going to pretend that that is the result of herincompetence. 🙂
portercloughFree MemberBD – I don’t begrudge a good salary for senior ministers, it is clearly a very high pressure job. Some back bench MPs, however, would struggle to justify their basic MP salary never mind the various scams and fiddles.
As I said earlier, more important than the money is the attitude that seems prevelant, that of one rule for them and another for the rest of us. That is what gets up people’s noses I think.
jonbFree Memberare all MPs scum?
No, but those who seek power should not be allowed it as they are normally not the best to hold it.
kimbersFull Memberwhoa there for more than double, tripple, quadruple…. my salary id become an MP it may well be hard
and maybe im being naive but i reckon i could do as good a job as many of them
i probably would become as corrupt as them though i think once you get sucked into westminster ways there is no turning backBigDummyFree MemberSo kimbers, why haven’t you? It’s not like you have to pass any difficult entrance exams or anything…
😉
RudeBoyFree MemberA large number of us are paid considerably more than MPs are
I doubt that. I’d be surprised if 10% of people off here earn more than £62000 a year. And as for ‘considerably more’, well, I doubt that even more.
And you’re forgetting all the add-ons, like consultancy fees, directorships, etc, that many of them get. Not to mention after-dinner speaking and other little earners. I’d be surprised if any MP has a net income well below £100k.
ourmaninthenorthFull MemberBut you’d really struggle to get people to do MPs’ working hours in London for a Manchester salary…
Ah, that assumes there’s a real difference. Might be at the top end, but not at my shop. 1900 last year for me – not quite magic circle MP levels, but not far off. And for about 50% or less of the pay….
No, but those who seek power should not be allowed it as they are normally not the best to hold it.
Plato thought about this a lot. Clearly the ideal is the person who does not want the job. But then you’d have to have a tyrannical electorate forcing him/her to do it. I’m not sure that would serve the greater good, but it does – to a certain extent – provide for a more pure state of governance.
stufieldFree MemberMPs probably can justify their basic, but I can’t see the fact that we need to help them acquire assets from the public purse. They don’t need to buy a 2nd house (shouldn’t this be some sort of benefit in kind?) why can’t they get a capped £100 a night hotel / food allowance, they’d all get a good rate from major hotel chain so it’d be just another procurement issue. Its our money after all, they should put it back into the economy by keeping people in jobs within the hotel / guest house industry, not buying houses for themselves.
matt_outandaboutFull Memberare all MPs scum?
Nope, most are pretty good. Some have maximised and overclaimed – but within the letter of the rules.
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FWIW, while I find the whole expenses thing abhorrent, lets also remember that in general UK politics are very ‘clean’.kimbersFull MemberSo kimbers, why haven’t you? It’s not like you have to pass any difficult entrance exams or anything…
well 1st of all i love my current job too much
secondly my history of sex and drug usage would have me tabloid sh!tstormed in seconds!
fubarFree Memberby claiming that being in work for 9-30 is an impossibility if you live as far from london as essex
He didn’t say that or did I miss something ? He said that he was frequently not getting home until 1am and then having to set off again at 5.30am. If I had to do that in my job I’d be looking for a new job. Can’t blame him myself.
scaredypantsFull MemberI understand that the Home Secretary gets substantially more than MPs basic. I still couldn’t do her job
hmmmm – I’m not so sure what the HS or any of the rest actually does for her part in it all
I mean, a week after reshuffling they ostensibly become the nation’s highest authority on their new subject ??I’ve a feeling that “yes, minister” is a lot closer to the truth
matt_outandaboutFull MemberAgreed fubar. For me the issue is not that they have a second home/flat near house of commons, that is sensible in my opinion.
The ‘problem’ is when they are claiming pay per view films, for large houses rather than smaller ones, paying (over inflated wages) for family members, allowances for stereos at £750 etc etc.
I think a (generous) flat rate of allowances should work.
davidrFull MemberBig Dummy, is that a dig meant specifically at those in the caring professions or is it meant for anyone who does work for the good of the community?
eldridgeFree MemberThere is no shortage of people wanting to be MPs
We need to apply to them the same economic logic society applies to people wanting to be bar staff – pay them as little as possible until the supply starts to dry up, then slowly increase their wages until just enough people are applying to fill the vacancies
So about £8 an hour should do it – with no expenses for spouses, socialite sons, parents’ houses or porn flix
grizzlygusFree MemberMPs didn’t used to get paid eldridge. As a consequence, it attracted only ‘gentlemen of some means’.
Paying MPs a wage, was one of the great reforms of British democracy.BTW, MPs get paid less than the average company lawyer or city broker.
Still, I guess they don’t have to do anything important such as passing laws, or worry about the smooth running of financial institutions.
chakapingFree MemberBTW, MPs get paid less than the average company lawyer or city broker.
Do you have any evidence of that? I’m not disputing it, just would find it very surprising.
I don’t think other people are earning as much as we imagine they are sometimes.
I have some sympathy for MPs, they move in very powerful circles and their salaries will certainly be lower than many of the people they deal with professionally on a day-to-day basis.
I’m not suprised that some feel entitled to maximise their income via expenses, even if I don’t approve of it.
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