I seriously thought about leaving the country if Cameron becomes PM. The prospect is just so depressing.

Not going to though, it's a bit like taking your ball away when you're losing.

The number of foreign students in English universities is a serious problem

Don't foreign students have to pay for all their fees? Isn't that good for our economy? If things are so bad, why do the foreign students want to learn here?

unfortunatly its just an op-ed piece for a paper,you need someone in power to do something about the (serious) points he makes, but it seems no-one in power feels this way, and we all know they don,t listen.

Foreign students pay about three times as much as UK students I think.

They must be saving us a fortune.

mikertroid – Member

Ernie

Your reliance on 'experts' to prove a point is admirable, however anyone who has any interest in the financial market can see that we're in a slow-motion train crash.

The only "point" I was making was that not everyone necessarily agrees that the UK is still in recession.

Now you might question whether Dr Sentance is an "expert" on such matters, however the Times, Guardian, Telegraph, Daily Mail, BBC, and yes, even the Financial Times amongst others, beg to differ ….. they all extensively report his comments.

The Financial Times have quoted him as saying :

“There is enough positive evidence elsewhere to suggest that recovery is getting under way, though it is fragile and in its early stages,” Mr Sentance said, noting that initial estimates of gross domestic product growth were frequently revised and can be particularly unreliable close to turning points in the cycle."

Now whatever your personal opinions concerning Dr Sentance are, there is little doubt that his job entitles him to have access to information concerning the state of the UK economy, which allows him to make a reasonably well-informed prognosis about it's health – I'm unconvinced that Jeremy Clarkson or some random mountain biker on an internet forum, necessarily have more access to the facts.

Neither do I believe that Dr Sentance's comments warrant the "rolling on floor pissing myself laughing" response of anotherdeadhero. As I think it is highly unlikely that anotherdeadhero will be asked to tag along to the next G8 summit on account that he knows more about the state of the UK economy than the Bank of England.

Just to recap what was said. The Office for National Statistics will issue more detailed figures this month that could lead to a revision of the headline GDP figure. Dr Sentance said, "I would not take a negative signal from the decline recorded in the third quarter"……In other words the UK economy might show a slight growth.

Now I don't know what the more detailed revised figures will show, but I certainly know whose comments I attach most importance to.

Woppit ….. twice on this thread you have commented that you're not interested in my opinion (in fact I think it's your only contribution) well there's no need to keep repeating it, I understood the first time, just ignore me
…… I won't mind you know 😉

Chakaping & Coyote,
They may pay more than UK students but surely the whole point of UK educational facilities is to educate UK people not every tom, dick and harry that can pay the most for it. The example earlier where a girl with 4 A's at A level can not get into the 5 universities that she has selected, but foreign students with less grades can is abhorant.

the whole point of UK educational facilities is to educate UK people

And yet we don't mind poaching doctors, nurses, and other health care workers, who have been educated and trained on poor and struggling third world countries, to save our National Health Service from collapsing.

Ernie, you are such a dissapointment.

I don't care what any newspaper publish; the facts are the facts, mate. We've a long way to go before we get to the bottom, let alone the recovery.

But if it keeps you happy the you just believe those clever journos; they're such a bright bunch.

the facts are the facts, mate

What facts are they then?

you just believe those clever journos

Are you saying that the Financial Times journalists are 'lying' and the comments which they attributed to Dr Sentance are false ? 😯

But I don't think you're paying attention mikertroid, I said, quote : "not everyone necessarily agrees" ……….do try to keep up.

the facts are the facts, mate.

Indeed they are. And yet you don't appear to have offered any. Have you got any "facts" about what the more detailed figures which will be issued this month by the ONS ? Do you know for a "fact" that they won't show even a small growth in the UK economy, eh ?

Ernie, you believe what you want, which is obviously some hack's view.

Fill yer boots!

you believe what you want, which is obviously some hack's view.

Well actually it isn't "some hack's view".

It's the view of a member of the Bank of England’s rate-setting committee.

Presumably you are "disappointed" that anyone should give any credence to this geezer's opinions ?
Do you also extend this contempt to all Financial Times readers ?

BTW, I haven't said what "I believe", merely that not everyone agrees that the UK is still in recession – I'm hardly in a position to make my own independent analysis of the state of the UK economy. I will wait until the ONS releases it figures. In the meantime, I am prepared to accept that they might show an end to negative growth.

alwyn – Member
The number of foreign students in English universities is a serious problem. It has got so bad now some classes are way over a 50 50 mix. I have no problem with foreigners but when English children are not educated at their expense then there needs to be a serious shake up of student visas. Half the foreign students don’t have as good grades and can barely speak any English. So why do they get in? Because they pay a much bigger fee then the capped fee and English child pays.
I think this one can be solely blamed on Labour dropping university funding and introducing fees. When a girl with 4 A Alevel cannot get on a vet course in any of her 5 chosen universities but plenty of foreign students can you have a serious problem.

Do you work in a university?

Universities have to compete in a global market, but i've never heard of a home student not getting a place because a foreign student was favoured for the extra fees they bring in. Visas for students have been shaken up this year and it is very difficult to get one at the moment – it is costing the sector a lot of money. Plus, given there is a looming demographic problems on the horizon (fewer teenagers) if the university sector is going to continue to produce world leading teaching and research foreign students are going to be essential.

Finally, the idea that foreign students can barely speak English is ludicrous in my experience. More often than not they have better English writing skills than many of the home students (the majority who can't construct a sentence or paragraph correctly).

shands – Member
Chakaping & Coyote,
They may pay more than UK students but surely the whole point of UK educational facilities is to educate UK people not every tom, dick and harry that can pay the most for it

The point of UK universities depends on who you ask. Some think they are for educating and stretching the minds of the young. Some believe they are training facilities for future workers. Others think they perform a socialising function. Whatever you believe, they do operate in a global market these days, and that means attracting foreign students.

The quality of education these foreign students receive is, IME, somewhat questionable. I do stress, IME.

On my photography course there were several students from a variety of nations, some were very dedicated and did well, some less so. A couple really didn't seem to want to be there. Some of the work submitted was unbelievable – one guy regularly handed in images very obviously photocopied from books – the lecturers barely blinked!!

It annoyed the hell out of those of us who really strove to produce the best work we could, only to see photocopies and hopelessly sub-standard work getting the same marks as our work.

It also meant that these students thought they were doing great work when actually, they should have been kicked off the course.

I hate people who do this, but:

I only read the article and not the thread…

It's the ramblings of a thicko. He doesn't even grasp the concept of a political compass. The rest is self centred and intolerant. The vision he proposes is simple and stupid. Nothing attractive about it.

Probably pulled because it's low quality and ugly.

If you are going to set about pulling apart the repugnant likes of Mandy, it
helps if you are not a "Clarkson".

Probably pulled because it's low quality and ugly.

I don't think it was ever pulled – don't know where the OP got that from.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/jeremy_clarkson/article6907747.ece

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WW7mhtp5a5E

Ernie, like you I'd love to believe that we're pulling out of this mess but unfortunately that isn't the case.

There's been some creative accounting and positive spin (why not we don't want the nation to panic, do we?) but the reality is that the proverbial is about to hit the fan.

I would so love it not to be the case and your 'experts' to be correct. But if they're from the same camp who claim there are only 2.5mil out of work then I'd love to have some of what they smoke!!!

Clarkson probably pays well over a million quid in tax. I reckon that qualifies him to say what he wants

Ernie:

Sentance's comments seem to have no basis and are extremely vague. Just an 'opinion' in the stark reality of an 0.4 % fall in GDP. I know new figures are inbound but I doubt if it'll point to a rise (0.6% below the 'analysts' prediction)!

How on earth can anyone think there is an end in sight when we're still pumping £Bns of borrowed money into the economy; jobless rising, tax income falling, consumer confidence destroyed, weak pound etc etc…

Anyway back to the OP; Clarkson gets my vote-he can see through the bunch of Leftie Loonie ****ts that have scuppered the UK every time they return to power. (I'll conceded that el-gordo didn't CAUSE the meltdown, but he certainly is responsible for our non-recovery by his profligate spending over the last 12 years)

Clarkson probably pays well over a million quid in tax. I reckon that qualifies him to say what he wants

Another dumb post in this thread, Clarkson could say what he liked if he paid no tax, I think what people have objected to is dumb idiots who think his opinions are important, or carry any sort of credability.

The one 'grain of truth' in the article is that everywhere (that I know of) is becoming a less atractive place to live.

But it's not the fault of government. We all bear responsibility.

If you want to live in a nicer, fairer, less greedy world, try being nicer, fairer and less greedy.

The one 'grain of truth' in the article is that everywhere (that I know of) is becoming a less atractive place to live.

The main thing making everywhere less attractive is all the whining, selfish, small-minded, negative people. Hopefully they will put their money where their mouth is and emigrate.

mikertroid – Member

Ernie, like you I'd love to believe that we're pulling out of this mess but unfortunately that isn't the case.

When did I say that "we're pulling out of this mess" ? I said "not everyone necessarily agrees that we are still in recession". What's the matter with you – I know that my English is often far from perfect, but can't you read my posts before commenting on them ?

I said that I was waiting for the revised figures to be released next week from Office for National Statistics. However the revised sales figures released last week are encouraging :

UK retail sales grow at fastest rate since start of recession

And it isn't just the guy at the Bank of England who is optimistic. Apparently that optimism is shared by the general population :

"…the Ipsos MORI poll showed optimism over the economy was at its highest since 1997, suggesting Labour may be benefiting from a return of a feel good factor after the Bank of England predicted a recovery at the beginning of 2010, the paper said.

About 43 percent of the public now believe the economy will perform better during the next year, compared with 23 percent who think it will deteriorate, with 28 percent saying it will stay the same."

Poll boost for Brown as Tories' lead slashed

.

if they're from the same camp who claim there are only 2.5mil out of work then I'd love to have some of what they smoke!!!

I had forgotten, you are the guy who rejects the UK unemployment figures as defined be the completely neutral Geneva based United Nations agency the ILO. Obviously arguing with you is as futile as arguing with any other conspiracy theorist.

BTW did you take up Junkyard's offer and drop them a line to explain your statistical approach to the issue ?
As Junkyard suggested, Let us know if they change the way they calculate unemployment based on your research.

bigrich – Member

Clarkson probably pays well over a million quid in tax. I reckon that qualifies him to say what he wants

And since the BBC, ie "we", pay him £2million a year, I reckon we are entitled to say what we want about him – eg "shut up".

We are probably also entitled to expect the BBC to pay him no more than a reasonable wage – and not give him bucket loads of our money.

Another dumb anagallis_arvensis in this thread

From the times:

According to official statistics, the employment rate is 74.2 per cent. But the unemployment rate is just 6 per cent – 1,864,000 people. That leaves one person in five unaccounted for: neither employed, nor unemployed…

According to another set of official statistics, the unemployment rate is just above one million… There are 1,071,900 people currently claiming jobseeker’s allowance. Everyone agrees that they are unemployed. But most statisticians also agree that there are plenty of unemployed people who are not on the dole [such as those who don't qualify]…

[ONS methodology] counts people who want to work, are available to work, and are actively seeking employment – based on survey data. This brings the rate for August to October – the earliest period for which data is available – to 6 per cent, the highest since 1999…

For the same period, there were 7.9 million people over 16 and below retirement age who were classed as “economically inactive”; 2 million of those were students; 2.3 million said they were looking after a family or home; and another 2 million were long-term sick. None of them is counted as unemployed, whatever definition is used.

But, when questioned, 2.1 million of them said they would like a job. If they were included, the unemployment rate would rise to just under 4 million.

That proves my point; the ONS figures are based on a strict criteria which wouldn't have applied before it became socially acceptable to sponsor people to do bugger all and saturate Universities with people who are below the 95th centile.

So don't try and patonise the readers here, Ernie. You're sounding like an arrogant cock. (Arrogant = making claims or pretensions to superior importance or rights)

Dear old Jeremy Clarkson……….. the "thinking man's" idiot.

To be fair to the man, I don't think he pretends to be anything other than this. He always strikes me as quite surprised when anyone takes him seriously.

Also some of his points about the cost of environmental measures, and technological regression, whilst politically incorrect, are worthy of debate, and are somewhat ignored at the moment.

I disagree with much of what he says, but I do find the way that he says it quite amusing. We've had loads of left wing political alternative comedians, he's just an example of a right wing one.

According to official statistics, the employment rate is 74.2 per cent. But the unemployment rate is just 6 per cent – 1,864,000 people.

😀 Can you provide me a link to that article please ?

I have only used the unemployment figures as defined by the ILO. Here they are again :

ILO-defined unemployment in July to September was 2.46 million (7.9%) – up by 30,000 unemployed on April-June and 629,000 from this time last year.

The claimant count for key out-of-work benefits was 1.6395 million in Octomber – up by 22,900 on last month, and up 632,700 on last year.

Read more here :

http://www.hrmguide.co.uk/jobmarket/unemployment.htm

I disagree with much of what he says, but I do find the way that he says it quite amusing.

Me too, it's just when people start to take it seriously…

Break this down:

It’s a lovely idea, to get out of this stupid, Fairtrade

How is Fairtrade a bad thing?

equal-opportunities

Yeah I hate equal opportunities too.

multicultural

Doesn't like foreigners

carbon-neutral

Is he against this because it's a slightly futile token gesture in the face of huge environmental problems, or does he see any attempt at being green as a bad thing?

mosque-drenched

Doesn't like Muslims

all-the-pigs-are-equal, property-is-theft hellhole

Yeah that's why the rich are getting richer and the rich poorer, because we live in a communist state.

Again, it's reasonably amusing, but it's utter nonsense.

Well said Mike (not the bit about calling ernie a cock – dont know enough about him) but knowing the way govts lke to massage figures & how many they are prepared to let drop through the sift I would say the unemployment figure is over 3 mil already..

And guys honesty anyone who thinks we are out of the woods – lay off the dope huh?

Repack, didn't you live in America? How come you came back here if it's so rubbish and economically screwed?

Oh, its quote time!

grumm

[quote]Doesn't like foreigners[/quote]

Doesn't like Muslims

stupid, Fairtrade

I hate equal opportunities

green a bad thing

we live in a communist state

You wish

That doesn't even make any sense.

What are your thoughts on equal opportunities and Fairtrade backhander?

I(we) buy fairtrade as much as we can. The co-op own brand ales are very nice.
I'm also all for equal opportunities, as long as they're equal in so much that it should be illegal to discrimate in any form which is not the case at the moment.
Aside from this, I despise "political correctness".

hang on, Brown DID cause the meltdown in our economy (more or less).

as chancellor, he allowed, even encouraged a boom based on debt (buy to let, rising house prices, release of equity, etc.)

just because the american bubble burst first doesn't mean Comrade Gordon is any less to blame for the situation here.

yes, i know we were all part of the problem, we didn't have to borrow and spend all that money, but as chancellor it was his power to stop it, but instead he encouraged it.

even now he's putting off the payback because he's scared it'll make him look bad.

(and i don't think much of the other lot either, any of 'em)

I'm also all for equal opportunities, as long as they're equal in so much that it should be illegal to discrimate in any form which is not the case at the moment

In english or are you all for equal opportunities as long as you are more equal?

<Yawns>
Sorry, did you say something?

no you carry on in your happy little world.