Apparently our business model is wrong.

I guess the cynical answer is that if you own/ work in a LBS then most likely it is compared to the rest of the cycling retail industry regardless of how much you fanny around (or not) fitting inner tubes.

There are some good LBS’s around but a heck of a lot of snooty, rip off shops that sell overpriced tat and have no interest in customer service. Hard to know the exact circumstances but anything that can be done to not add to that stereotype must surely be worth something. Sounds like the customer wasn’t up for any learning or compromise though so perhaps he was best on his way

It was the guy’s opinion and he’s entitled to it. No need to moan about him.

If he was new to you, I’d have said we’ll take the suggestion on board but point out why it wouldn’t work if you feel it won’t generate business and just costs you money. However offer him a deal doing the tube free just this once so long as he tells his mates, or do it for a couple of quid, or throw in some little freebie that costs you nothing.

That said, an LBS by the trail side is more the kind of place you want to appear to be helping out guys who’s rides are going to be cut short. Builds up reputation, encourages them to come back and ride the place again, potentially popping into the shop and telling their friends to do likewise.

In fact that’s exactly what happened with me with one of the local shops, and their business picked up greatly through local reputation and doing the odd little quick fix cheap or free at their discretion (though they did encourage a donation in the charity box). I like to think I’ve helped by directing people to the shop.

Not saying it should be free, but going out of your way to appear to help out and give a bit if a discount even if it’s first time is great way of promoting business.

Seems to me that your pricing isn’t far off industry standard?. Its hard enough to keep a small business going these days. Anybody who believes the recession is over and everything is back to normal probably works in a bank or I.T

http://www.evanscycles.com/servicing

doing the odd little quick fix cheap or free at their discretion

I do loads of this, but if you’re not organised/competent enough to fix a puncture, you should be paying IMO.

There are some good LBS’s around but a heck of a lot of snooty, rip off shops that sell overpriced tat and have no interest in customer service

Amazing that so many shops like that survive, isn’t it? 😉

I find, for most people, price is not their major concern. Other factors are more important, like can I provide the bike they want, can I do the customisation they need, can I do the specialist repair that they can’t so themselves or find someone else to do? Cost, while not a minor matter, isn’t the over-riding concern.

If the shop has time why not chuck the tube for free, it takes me about 5-10 mins in the cold and wet to do. Should take less for a pro bike mechanic.
the customer may be back in a few weeks looking for a new bike.

No one works for free, or works for free today on spec. of work tomorrow unless they are stupid.

Today? Local guy came into our shop with his kids bike. Wanted new front brake blocks and front puncture fixed, can we do it for £20?

Okay, shop is new, he is local with 4 kids in tow..I take this as speculation and we agree to £20.

39 minute later after faulty brake and bike is put right as best as possible ,tube swapped and missing non-drv side wheel nut has been replaced by packing out axle with spacers and using suitable nyloc, bike ready.

Guy is thankful but I now feel stupid as workshop hourly rate £50 and we sold him £5.99 inner tube and £2.99 brake blocks, but wasted time.

Interesting to see if he ever comes back..

I’m with Al,

lots of coulda woulda shoulda going on here.. I would say let the bloke spend his big wedge up front.. then Al can do his tube for free.

Assuming that the bloke will come back to spend again* is making an ASS out of U and AL

*especially when the toe-rag is using it as a bribe. scrote.

esher shore – what took so long? Dealing with the missing non-drv side wheel nut?

Could you not have pointed that out on discovery and say there’d be additional charge for? On the face of it fitting tube/brake block are small jobs – crazy that people don’t feel they can tackle these jobs themselves really.

crazy that people don’t feel they can tackle these jobs themselves really.

Not everyone wants to, sometimes people want somebody who knows what they are doing to fit things like brakes to their kids bikes. I’ve met plenty of people who don’t know one end of a screwdriver from the other and frankly are a danger to themselves and others if they had one in their hand.
Then after agreeing to a fixed price job do you call him halfway through and say not your bike is in bits I reckon it’s going to cost you more?
You can ask for more when he turns up or you can chalk it up and learn from it

The phrase I always dread is “just do whatever needs doing” – that can go either way, depending on whether the person has a realistic idea of what condition their bike is in and what repairs really cost.

closely followed by “I’ve fitted everything it just needs tuning”

Is it ever appropriate to advise a service? I suppose for cheaper bikes they’re not really justifiable?

Thinking about when taking a car into a garage for a problem, if something unknown is discovered as part of their work they’ll contact the customer to discuss. Mostly bike issues should be pretty easy to spot though as so much simpler so uncommon for later issues to be found I guess. Don’t suppose many shops would want to give an unsafe bike back to a customer – well I once got one back without the stem bolts tightened but that’s incompetence!

The cost of the “traditional” free first service on bikes will wipe out much of the profit on a cheap bike. Of course you do have the customer back in the shop so you can do the “need anything else sir/madam?” sales line.

“The cost of the “traditional” free first service on bikes will wipe out much of the profit on a cheap bike. Of course you do have the customer back in the shop so you can do the “need anything else sir/madam?” sales line.”

Not really….if the first free service takes more than 15 minutes you better employ better bike builders as your sticking crap out the door first time round ( barring mechanical failure – bathtub model and all that)

Adds Mudshark to the ‘List’ 🙄

CaptainFlashheart – Member

Some shops give discounts and some will throw in freebies; worth asking really.

Be sure to ask next time you’re at a supermarket. Or your local corner shop for a pint of milk. After all, they’re only there to give you a discount and some freebies. You deserve it, just for asking, no matter what. They’re not there to provide a service, and woe betide that anyone should be allowed to actually make a living out of it….

FFS.

Say’s the guy who always bangs on about the cheesiness that is ‘just give the chaps so doughnuts and biscuits, they always then ‘sort’ me out, wot wot’ 🙄

Rorschach – am I missing something?

it takes me about 5-10 mins in the cold and wet to do. Should take less for a pro bike mechanic.
the customer may be back in a few weeks looking for a new bike.

The fact is they won’t though.

Even with most my bikes tubeless I probably still get through an average of a tube a month. So by your logic I’d be needing/getting 12 free tube fittings. I buy one bike a year, if that, and usualy 2nd hand!

Surely most people who bring tubes into shops are not like us – we have to fix punctures on the side of the road/trail or we’re stuck. These people are mostly cycling commuters, I imagine, and casual users. I told a mate when he bought a bike off me he should get some spare tubes and a pump but told me he’d just get his wife to pick him up if he punctured.

Anyway, shops fixing tubes for free isn’t the way forward I’m sure.

trail_rat – Member
Not really….if the first free service takes more than 15 minutes you better employ better bike builders as your sticking crap out the door first time round ( barring mechanical failure – bathtub model and all that)

I always suspect the first free service at Halfords is a nightmare, and frequently used just a month after purchase 😉

More so given they chuck in GT-85 with about every purchase possible and tell the customers to use it to lube up everything, so end up destroying all the bearings 😀 (well the BSOs Halfords sell probably don’t even have bearings anyway).

OK I get it now

Your LBS should fit inner tubes for free and carry out minor repairs for free. That will get loads of customers into the shop. You can then teach them to repair their bike so they can buy their new bits online. You can then advise them on what new bike will work for them and perhaps offer set up advice and a test ride. They will then ask how much the bike is and then be deeply offended that you want feel full retail and buy that online as well

I really can’t see why that won’t work
I think this is spot on really.
Every time this subject comes up I’m surprised by how many people think LBS people should do things for free or at a serious discount all the time. People who I very much doubt think they should do the same in their own line of work.

Stop expecting gleaming customer service just because you’ve walked in a shops door! This is not America. 😛

Tricky one, I suppose it depends on how much he’s spent over the years in store, if he’s just some walk in chancer then that’s the right call – do one, be on your way. But if he’s a regular hell we do it on the trails often enough helping out muppets who are slowing up the ride, we don’t charge them.

We’ve even helped change kite bladders and they take a lot more frigging about with but then the bladders are a lot more expensive than six quid.

I wouldn’t expect ANY shop to fit a tube for free. It can get fiddly and what if theres a problem with the rim tape, rim dent etc. Where do you stop and say ‘ok I need to charge you’?

You’d end up spending alot of your day working for free and potential customers walking in and out because no ones free/everyones tied up.

What I do object to is RRP/high prices/assumption that if you walk in you MUST buy something. Just because I look at and try on some knee pads doesn’t mean I’ll spend 50quid+.

I bet alot of bikeshop sales come from browsing with no initial intent.

If I try a helmet on does it automatically mean I’ll go and buy it online? No.

Staff should be there to help facilitate questions/answers – help if someone wants to purchase not fit things for free nor pressure either.

Just for contrast – my LBS does plenty of work for free, if I pop in for a chat and the mechanic isn’t busy it’s bike up in the stand, gears adjusted, chain wear checked, wheels checked for play/spoke tightenss and my taste in bar tape/bottle colour coordination critiqued while I pop over the shop for the “CFH approved hobnob and donut payment”

Even though I don’t spend a fortune in there (by stw-illionaire standards) I do spend regularly and most things get a bit of discount.

It’s a proper LBS though, in a small town/village which still has a local high street atmosphere, all the staff live round the area and always see them out and about.

Guess I’m just lucky to have them, some of the other shops/staff above sound rank to be honest.

Spot on hora bar pricing.

We sell most stuff at RRP, are able to discount a fair bit due to being a chain.

Most staff are on minimum wage or close.

People just expect discounts these days, presumably due to CRC, Amazon etc. I suppose the market will sort itself out, its just frustrating to hear “well I suppose I have t buy these brake pads for today’s ride even though they are cheaper online”.

Why not offer – £50 puncture repair kit, saddle bag, mini pump, patches, levers, 2 tubes and someone to show you how to swap a tube.

you can sell this with every bike, or people walking in off the street.

Difference between crc and rrp, pay rrp now and we’ll credit difference on all purchases to your account upto £250 / year and you can have it off the next bike you buy?

People just expect discounts these days, presumably due to CRC, Amazon etc.

and massively in debt but don’t want to have to cut down on buying shiny things…

People just expect discounts these days, presumably due to

council tax,water rates, electricity bill, mobile phone bill, childcare/nursery bills, petrol prices. Etc.

CRC etc are a help not a cause. If a shop says they price match I’ll use them as it means I can afford cycling kit.

I need a new helmet- CRCs offer on TLD A1 means I can get a new helmet, but also a helmet that is decent quality and will last. Nowt wrong with that!

Evans charge a tenner (in London at least), plus the cost of the tube. It doubles to 20 for hub gears and anything else faffy.

They’re clearly doomed and will soon disappear from the high street.

Maybe its different down england way but i still keep my oar on at a few shops ive worked in and what most of them express these days as a want over increased market share and more sales is another mechanic and more hours in the day. – waitin lists of a couple of weeks to get repairs done – in a small town ffs. Thats with 3 mechanics as well. Another has a 6week waiting list and is screamin to hire more mechanics but cant get them. They pay a decent mechanics wage as well- Sounds to me like their business model doesnt need adjustin to suit stw. Infact the two local shops that did bend over to meet stws expectations ( create a lifestyle meeting place , give silly discounts , free repairs , free demos, product nights ) went bust once the banks cut off their cash.

Some retailers do match online prices – Evans anyway – but building up credit in this way would be hard to manage. Maybe a default 10% to be used against later bike purchase would be doable? Or maybe any purchase over, say, £100 up to a max of 50% of the price?

Evans charge a tenner (in London at least), plus the cost of the tube. It doubles to 20 for hub gears and anything else faffy.

They charge £6 to change a tube and things like cut steerer/fit SFN is £11.

Generally (and this is all chains/specialist bikeshops) Paying your staff min. wage to sell bike products into the 000’s is a poor show. Sorry.

Not sure what store managers are on now but I remember Evans used to pay store managers 25k. That to me was appalling.

Why’s it appalling? If the shops get good enough people at the salaries offered then that’s fine surely? Whilst they may be selling bikes (some) in the 000s the profit levels may not be considered high – especially in some rural areas.

A bike shop paying minimum wage selling cheap products. Or a shop selling bicycles that can be in their thousands, innertubes etc etc with margins.

Sorry – share the love. Pay abit better.

Price doesn’t matter, profit does. Bike shops aren’t the worst culprits for sure!

Generally (and this is all chains/specialist bikeshops) Paying your staff min. wage to sell bike products into the 000’s is a poor show. Sorry.

You think they have the money? Just because abike sells at thousands someone is coining it in?

You say you shop at CRC. Do you not see how you are creating the situation?

You havent a clue.

I would say offer them a reduced price for the first time of fitting a tube. Also ask if they would like to be shown how to do it. If they say no, you know they probably won’t come back very often.

If they say yes, you’ve potentially got a regular who has newly taken on the sport. Anything you can do to help them get started will result them coming back repeatedly. I know I would. Especially if it builds a social community within your shop. Customers are more likely to come back for fittings, kits and maybe bikes.

That’s the one thing a LBS can offer that Halfords etc can’t really offer, personal service.

Just because abike sells at thousands someone is coining it in?

Next you’ll be telling me a 3k RRP has a £100 margin.