approved sources

I would suggest it would be farms that do not subject their beasts to any form of cruelty. Such as naturally-kept free range/free to roam hens. Or cows rotated so they do not produce milk unnaturally.

But of course, for the very strong-minded and strict veggies, they would probably consider that this is not enough, and all well and good for them – it is their lifestyle choice.

For example, why on earth would a farmer kill the cow's calf?

see here: http://www.vegansociety.com/animals/exploitation/cows/dairy_cow.php

Trust me, it happens, I'm a country girl, I knows about this stuff.

You cannot produce milk for humans without cruelty to the cow.

Whether you believe in veganism or not, eating meat or not, and animal explotation or not, you cannot surely believe that unnaturally forcing an animal to get pregnant, take the calf away, milk her until she is sore, lame and bleeding and then repeat the cycle is anything other than cruel. Especially when we don't need milk to live. Even if they were 'rotated'. Just out of interest – where would the money come from to keep the cow whilst is it unproductive?

I am not going to get into an argument about animal-cruelty and vegetarianism as it would just get silly – I am prepared to accept that cruelty will happen in the food cycle in order to get the foodstuffs I prefer on my plate.

You clearly are not prepared to accept that and credit to you for that.

But no amount of arguing from either of us will change either's viewpoint as each of us has an equally valid point of view.

As I have already said… But of course, for the very strong-minded and strict veggies, they would probably consider that this is not enough, and all well and good for them – it is their lifestyle choice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dairy_cattle

In a similar manner to what happens to many lactose intolerant people, links are now just being regurgitated.

Surely the beast could be kept for it's own milk or sold to a meat farmer

girl dairy calves do get kept for their own milk, boys don't. Dairy male calves aren't that good for meat so get killed. They used to go for veal, but no-one eats veal any more because it's cruel.

Doc says i'm lactose intolerant, but the symptoms don't fit…

i don't get any indigestion/tummy wobbles, but it does play merry hell with my blood sugar.

about 10-15 mins after drinking milk /eating cheese, my blood sugar will crash. the Quacks can't explain it, anyone here got an explanation?

(been off the milk for years, brekkie usually means porridge made with water, pinch of salt, and dollop of jam, or muesli with soya milk)

(milk smells weird to me now)

girl dairy calves do get kept for their own milk, boys don't. Dairy male calves aren't that good for meat so get killed. They used to go for veal, but no-one eats veal any more because it's cruel.

Yeah – and they get used for animal feeds as well.

But to my simplistic point of view, it is all part of the food chain. I am a meat eater and fully accept that pain and discomfort happens to animals – I do not try to hide from the facts and fully understand what goes on, yet I have made the decision as an adult that I am prepared to accept it in order to get my chicken, steak, milk, eggs (I had some lovely spring lamb chops with crushed mash and veg last night).

As I have said before, all well and good to those that feel differently – I have nothing against vegetarians or vegans or their points of view – I fully accept that there are people that do not feel as I do. I would just like to think that they would afford me the same courtesy.

I agree mastiles, I'm a fully paid up member of the meat eating, milk drinking club. I was just pointing out that what goes on. HFW was encouraging people to eat rose veal the other week because it's better (if from a reliable source) than just killing the male dairy calves.

I don't think anyone was being off with you, just answering your point about how they are often treated.

Appreciated Mrsflash – you are one of the most liberal-minded and fair posters on here and I know you were just pointing out facts – which is what I was trying to do regarding the original eggs and milk comment. Yet I found myself drawn in (as I always do) into discussions with people of differing views to mine and in this instance there seemed to be a groundswell of links pointing out '*facts' about cruelty in milk production.

*I say 'facts' as, as is always the case, very compelling arguments can be made for and against any given subject and the argument you want to get across can often be 'proved' by finding any amount of research from links on the interweb.

most liberal-minded and fair posters

is that polite for I sit on the fence a lot? 😆

Err…

No.

(Is that the right answer?)

😉

mate who's now a carpenter used to work in village butchers and abatoir

killing all the day old male dairy calves was worst bit – they don't/can't go into human meat cycle.

hope not too many people choking on cornflakes