I know of two white males who passed all entry tests for the Fire Service but were knocked back because they were already over the Honky quota.

cpon, people like local authorities will be very interested in applicants' ethnic backgrounds as they will have equal opportunities policies and need to show that they are sticking to these. However, that doesn't mean that they will make a decision based on this.

When I worked for a firm of solicitors that did legal aid, we used to ask many of our clients how they would describe their ethnic background (Not "What ethnic group do you belong to?" – how would you know without a DNA test?). That made absolutely bugger all difference to whether they qualified for legal advice or not, which was strictly down to the numbers.

cpon – Member
…….. but I know people who have needed help from local authorities and been told in no uncertain terms that due to their background they will unlikely qualify for help. Others from ethnic backgrounds will be granted housing before them. The system isn't a first come first served, it's more fill a quota, tick box type allocation.

That is 100% untrue " a mate of mine told me that…………"

Rubbish – utter and complete drivel

There are many who wish it were.

cpon – the local authority would be breaking the law by doing that – what your friend will have got confused by is that collecting of ethnic data and the points system for getting housing.

You are simply wrong – this is a canard that gets hoisted again and again but has been extensively proven to be wrong.

The local authority would and could be prosecuted.

no, this is a canard that gets hoisted again and again.

our brigade also does three open days

1- white males and female
2- women (white or minority)
3- minority (men or women)

i know as fact from our hr dept. a few years back we had 300 spaces for the recruitment open day 92 ethinc males applied and got on the day. 107 women applied and as there were some spaces left from the minority day they were put on that as it was only fair. over 2800 white males applied 100 got on the open day .

very fair eh ?

Playing devil's advocate for a second (I agree that the fire brigade's policy is a bit silly here), if all of those 200-odd "minority" types apply together with the 100 white blokes, and that out of them the 100 caucasian blokes turn out to be best at wrangling hoses, rescuing kittens from trees and sliding down poles*, do you think they would still give the jobs to the minorities?

*This might not be obvious but I know naff all about firefighting.

I've seen science jobs posts mainly for university jobs(in Britain) that state you cant have lived in Britain for the last 5 years or something.

I think there trying to balance the teams but seems pretty racist to me. As the people likely to have lived in Britain for the last year are likely to be british people.

the figures were given to us on our equalites course by the asian lady taking us for it who thought it showed how good positive recruitment worked (discrimination in a fancy coat) .

currently they are not recruiting at all 'unless'

however we welcome applications from women and people from black and minority ethnic groups, who are currently under-represented within our Service

Mick, again donning my devil's advocate hat, how is it bad to have more women and ethnic groups represented in the fire service? Is it all like "Backdraft" or do you actually need to communicate and interact with people face to face too?

Affirmative action is still illegal in this country.

Any of the people whinging about this so-called discrimination against white people, have you ever stopped to think why some of these initiatives exist? It's because of historical and continuing discrimination/exclusion of ethnic minorities which is particularly strong in certain sectors. If that didn't exist then none of these things would be necessary.

I passed the physical and written exams for the fire service about 8 years ago. After the written exam we all waited in a room for our results. I said to the room "Some of those questions were a little tricky" The response from a few people said "we had similar questions in our "mock" exams, so it was OK"

I asked a few more questions and found out that all the women (any colour) and the men (brown/black/yellow etc) in the room had done these mock exams except for the honky males. I felt cheated and disillusioned, when i got offered the position in the service I did not take it, and glad I didn't. Anyway most of the fire fighters now look to fat and lazy to put out a fag IMHO 😐

So you got a job offer, despite not having had the advantages that the others had had? It's positive discrimination gone mad!

(And the Devil's Advocate wears a wig Mr_A. No hats in court. 😉 )

BD, spot on. (The bit about the hats, I'll ignore, because no bugger seems to wear wigs these days.) And the daft recruiting policies of the fire brigade are hardly evidence of widespread positive discrimination in society at large.

I've seen science jobs posts mainly for university jobs(in Britain) that state you cant have lived in Britain for the last 5 years or something.

I think there trying to balance the teams but seems pretty racist to me. As the people likely to have lived in Britain for the last year are likely to be british people.

If you could find anything currently advertised that says that i'd be interested in seeing it.
Working in a uni, it strikes me as highly unlikely that they were trying to 'balance teams' as the places by default have a far higher number of overseas employees/students by default.
My only guess if you've seen such a thing, is that it might be a some sort of cross funded European research, and they have to ensure that one single country doesn't monopolise the research, but even that sounds a bit unlikely.

I asked a few more questions and found out that all the women (any colour) and the men (brown/black/yellow etc) in the room had done these mock exams except for the honky males.

Again, ask yourself why that might be? Is it because of some massive conspiracy against white men? I agree it's probably a daft way of doing it but it's presumably an attempt to reverse minorities being under-represented.

They do a similar thing with guaranteed interviews for people with disabilities in some places – it's because statistics show disabled people are often overlooked, even if they are perfectly capable of doing the job.

Mr Agreeable, TandemJeremy

It may be untrue, it maybe drivel but here's a fact. I work with a guy who has been waiting for a council house for over a year. He's english, divorced, employed and a farther of 1. He lives in rented private accommodation which is a major financial strain given his current circumstances. He is also a tax payer and contributor of NI and council tax.

Our non english speaking Polish office cleaner found a social house without problem in much less than a year having never contributed to council tax, NI, nor the ability to fill out the correct paperwork. I don't begrudge anyone to a home but queue jumping winds me up.

I don't have a solution but I do recognise that there is a problem.

Perhpas the polish person had more points to gain higher priority? Council housing is allocated on a set of objective criteria based on need – nothing else.

cpon, you don't say what your mate does for a living, but I reckon your office cleaner has jumped the queue by being worse off financially than your mate. Nothing more.

grumm – Member

I asked a few more questions and found out that all the women (any colour) and the men (brown/black/yellow etc) in the room had done these mock exams except for the honky males.

Again, ask yourself why that might be? Is it because of some massive conspiracy against white men? I agree it's probably a daft way of doing it but it's presumably an attempt to reverse minorities being under-represented.

They do a similar thing with guaranteed interviews for people with disabilities in some places – it's because statistics show disabled people are often overlooked, even if they are perfectly capable of doing the job.

Rubbish their is no difference between me (a white male) and somone who is black, brown,yellow,fat,thin,male, female,disabled or able bodied. If anyone wants a job and they have any gumption about themselves they have the same chances.

Rubbish their is no difference between me (a white male) and somone who is black, brown,yellow,fat,thin,male, female,disabled or able bodied. If anyone wants a job and they have any gumption about themselves they have the same chances.

Statistics show that you are wrong.

Kingkongsfinger – if only that were true – research shows again and again that ethnic minority candidates have a lower chance of getting a job.

the classic example of this was a pair of CVs sent to apply for a number of jobs – identical CVS bar minor details and the fact that one candidate was an obviously Anglo Saxon name and the other an obviously african name – the CV with the anglosaxon name got far more interviews

mr agreeable i have no problems at all with having more of what ever in as we are understaffed at present but its the fact that they will not send you an application pack now unless you are

women and people from black and minority ethnic groups, who are currently under-represented within our Service

which i my eyes is wrong.

they are striving for proportional representation but in doing so are discriminating against white males

heres a far out idea why not select people on skills and ability rather than colour/race/sex/religion and so on

Where does it say that then? Just looked on the recruitment pages on here and could see no mention of it

http://www.fireservice.co.uk/recruitment/application.php

There's a bit here where it says 'Suffolk Fire and Rescue Service is an equal opportunities employer and welcomes applications from all under represented groups in Suffolk.' – but it doesn't say 'so you can still apply even though it's closed to whitey'.

http://www.suffolk.gov.uk/PolicingAndPublicSafety/FireAndRescueServices/Recruitment/WholetimeFirefighterRecruitment/

That's just a standard statement that many organisations make to try and show they are open to all applicants.

Mick – the problem is they have been for decades selecting on the basis of race / sex / religion – white anglo saxon protestant males only got the jobs – in order to correct this they are using positive action – Now I ain't a big fan of that ( because of the anger it leads to such as you show) – but I do understand why it has been done.

its on our brigade pages grumm . and they are not taking applications from white males but are from anyone else

But are they actually handing out jobs to anyone from minority groups, or just keeping their CVs on file for the next round of recruitment? The former is illegal, the second scenario, well as KKF's post shows it doesn't seem to make that much of a difference in real life.

And what the blinking flip has this got to do with whether calling someone a **** is offensive or not? 😕

well actually they are stockpiling them to give as they say on here dibs to when recruitment starts but its out of order imho. but what the heck im already in lol i dont mind who i work with as long as they can do the job (which half the new entrant seem to struggle with lol regardless colour/religion/sex etc)

as mr a says lets get back to post lol and yes it is offensive as it causes someone offense

Congratulations STW – the level of ignorance (some of you will guess which section of posters to which I'm referring) shown on this thread is simply staggering. You made the 5Live phone-in crowd this morning seem over-educated.

It is simply staggering how anybody can possibly defend the use of the word "****" when referring to those from the sub-continent.

its out of order imho

I'd agree, but the problem isn't "political correctness", it's the Fire Brigade's HR people and their feeble grip on reality.

Well that's foreigners for you. They're brains haven't evolved to think logically like us Whities.

I was once called a f****n foreigner by a half-Jamaican half-Scottish kid in London. The reaction of his teachers (as we were at a school)? Well, you know, he is a really nice kid, you know.

Any of the people whinging about this so-called discrimination against white people, have you ever stopped to think why some of these initiatives exist? It's because of historical and continuing discrimination/exclusion of ethnic minorities which is particularly strong in certain sectors. If that didn't exist then none of these things would be necessary.

Are you smoking crack? There is NO excuse for discrimination.
You need to have a word with yourself for that comment. I'm gobsmacked.

With respect, whether you agree with grumm's stated view or not, it is not one shared only by people who smoke crack, but is quite commonly held by people who do not rely on ad hominem argument. 🙂