Anti Semitism and Labour

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  • Anti Semitism and Labour
  • Blackflag
    Member

    Can someone point me in the direction of some actual evidence for all of this? I keep hearing the accusation and im trying to decide if this a real issue or a nasty stitch up.

    Internet searches and news feeds seem to just be full of people claiming there is anti semitism but i’m struggling to find evidence of actual events or incidents that support these claims. The only thing i can find is the retweeted image of the world bankers that JC apologised for.

    And by antisemitism i am not talking about being critical of Israel.

    Premier Icon Dickyboy
    Subscriber

    And by antisemitism i am not talking about being critical of Israel.

    And that’s why you’ll struggle to find any..

    andylc
    Member

    I have found very similar – it confuses me why Jeremy Corbyn doesn’t come out much more strongly condemning it in general but with specific reference to what’s happening in the party it all seems to be based on accusations and it does make you wonder on the motives of those making them.

    solamanda
    Member

    I think the fact that he was happy to invite antisemitic terrorists and that the Archbishop of Canterbury has supported the Chief Rabbi over his concerns of antisemitism are two powerful pieces of evidence.

    tjagain
    Member

    There are clear individual examples of anti semitism that have been exposed. Never seen anything more than that and those people have been dealt with. Indeed there is an antisemitic thread running thru the far left some of which is in evidence in the labour party.

    But as for Corbyn being anti semetic or institutional antisemetism? I have not seen a shred of evidence

    Premier Icon Drac
    Subscriber

    Nope I’ve not seen anything despite what Boris’ friend and ex-conservative party member says.

    Oh to be clear as TJ says with exception of individuals who have been dismissed.

    Premier Icon FuzzyWuzzy
    Subscriber

    As you say it’s mostly anti-Zionist rather than anti-Semitic but gets twisted to score some points against Labour (and more specifically JC). He has been a bit politically naive at times though when trying to deal with it.

    tjagain
    Member

    Solomanda – “invite antisemitic terrorists” What and when?

    piha
    Member

    Fill yer boots Blackflag – https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/labour-party-problems/

    There are 2 sided to the discussion. Have a read and tell us what you think?

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    It tends to be on Twitter. It was directed almost exclusively at Jewish women like Luciana Berger, so it was also wrapped up with a double helping of misogyny too. It’s really, really nasty stuff. Rape threats etc

    Should have been dealt with. Hasn’t been. Still.

    ‘The Abuse made me physically ill”. Luciana Berger reveals the toll of fighting antisemitism while Labour MPs refused to stand by her

    Premier Icon dove1
    Subscriber

    This confuses me as well. There are lots of claims of institutional antisemitism but I haven’t seen any evidence or examples of it.
    I can’t decide if it a case of there being no smoke without fire, a cleverly orchestrated smear campaign or just band-wagon jumping.

    mashr
    Member

    FuzzyWuzzy

    Subscriber

    As you say it’s mostly anti-Zionist rather than anti-Semitic but gets twisted to score some points against Labour

    Although stupid comments like “move Israel to the US” don’t take much twisting

    I was gonna post the exact same OP.

    bizarre.

    Marin
    Member

    Fuzzywuzzy has it. Corbyn maybe anti-Zionist but anti-Semitic I doubt.

    Premier Icon v8ninety
    Subscriber

    it confuses me why Jeremy Corbyn doesn’t come out much more strongly condemning it in general

    It’s a very tricky challenge to deal with; I think it’s been handled badly but I am at a loss as to what would have been better. I feel that the leadership have tried to just ‘not talk about it’ as it doesn’t matter what they say, it will be twisted anyway, and will just add fuel to the fire. Whilst that’s probably true, it’s also true that the strategy has failed.

    The weaponisation of accusations of antisemitism is one of the most sinister developments in U.K. politics, and scarily, by polarising viewpoints further can only fan the flames of bigotry of all persuasions. I really do fear for the way things are going.

    footflaps
    Member

    Nope I’ve not seen anything despite what Boris’ friend and ex-conservative party member says.

    Yes, the timing of today’s front page headline was certainly a remarkable coincidence with the Labour Party launching their Race and Faith manifesto today….

    The Tories doing what they do best, winning elections at all and any cost.

    Can someone point me in the direction of some actual evidence for all of this? I keep hearing the accusation and im trying to decide if this a real issue or a nasty stitch up.

    Labour’s own report into it is a helpful read.

    https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Chakrabarti-Inquiry-Report-30June16.pdf

    There are various recommendations, which I’m sure Labour will have rushed to implement in the three years since its publication…

    footflaps
    Member

    it confuses me why Jeremy Corbyn doesn’t come out much more strongly condemning it in general

    At best he’s shown complete indifference to the whole issue, so he’s hardly helped himself. But then I get the impression, he’d rather lose the election and be ‘right’ than win and compromise anything. Whereas the Tories only care about winning.

    footflaps
    Member

    Labour’s own report into it is a helpful read.

    That would be the one where the author was paid with a life peerage whilst the ink was still drying….

    NB She was excellent at Liberty but accepting ‘payment’ for that report so soon after was a blindingly stupid move for an ex-lawyer, sort of thing you expect to see in a ‘banana republic’.

    scotroutes
    Member

    Only semites should be allowed to reply to the OP. The rest of us just aren’t qualified to answer.

    fasthaggis
    Member

    Should have been dealt with. Hasn’t been.

    This has been a gift to the other parties ,and as V8 said…
    There is now a weaponization of any antisemitism accusations.
    Perfect timing to keep it all bubbling away during election and Brexshit.

    BillMC
    Member

    Does making sexist and racist remarks on Twitter make you a member of the Labour Party?

    scotroutes
    Member

    Banana Republic?

    Are you suggesting that countries that export bananas are somewhat corrupt?

    Premier Icon Drac
    Subscriber

    Only semites should be allowed to reply to the OP. The rest of us just aren’t qualified to answer.

    Scotsplaining.

    Premier Icon v8ninety
    Subscriber

    Does making sexist and racist remarks on Twitter make you a member of the Labour Party?

    No, because being a Tory precludes you from joining the Labour Party.

    footflaps
    Member

    Are you suggesting that countries that export bananas are somewhat corrupt?

    I think it refers to bananas that lack a moral compass…..

    Premier Icon v8ninety
    Subscriber

    Only semites should be allowed to reply to the OP. The rest of us just aren’t qualified to answer.

    Is this a joke?

    A) This is STW, being ‘qualified’ has never precluded anyone from voicing an opinion, and
    B)We are all human*. That’s all the qualification that’s needed to damn bigotry, whatever the flavour.

    *Chewkw I’m not sure about, but we should give him the BOTD.

    The EHRC should be able to report immediately if there’s no evidence.

    Right?

    Premier Icon slowoldman
    Subscriber

    I think it refers to bananas that lack a moral compass…..

    Oh I think I know that film. Has it got ice bears in it?

    footflaps
    Member

    The EHRC should be able to report immediately if there’s no evidence.

    Right?

    They’re waiting to be offered a life peerage….

    Premier Icon Drac
    Subscriber

    That took me too long Scotroutes.

    That would be the one where the author was paid with a life peerage whilst the ink was still drying….

    I recommended it in that context – as long as you read it with the idea that it paints the most favourable picture possible, you’ll be fine. The truth may be somewhat worse, but it certainly won’t be any better. And the report still highlights a significant problem.

    Also, Corbyn enthusiastically endorsed it at the launch while somehow managing to liken the relationship between Jews and the State of Israel to that of Muslims and Isis.

    Still not sure whether, three years on, he’s actually fully implemented it though.

    Blackflag
    Member

    Thanks a lot for pointing me toward some stuff inc the Chakrabati report.

    Seems a lot of accusations and opinion rather than specific evidence (the bit i’m looking for). I get that there are some wobblyheads on the far left that seem to prioritise Israel over other state human rights issues and that the Jewish / Zionist issue is a bit too easily muddled and that comparing Israel to Nazi Germany is blatantly offensive. Is this what it really is rather than attacks on Jews for being Jews? or is there more?

    The Tories doing what they do best, winning elections at all and any cost.

    I think you’ll find this is for all parties.

    Premier Icon mucker
    Subscriber

    Right, fek it I am sick to the back teeth of this disingenuous claptrap repeated by the press about JC. My wife’s family are Jewish and deeply socialist, they love JC, know him to be a committed humanitarian and not in any way anti-Semitic. Just because you don’t agree with what is happening in Israel DOESN’T MAKE YOU ANTI-SEMITIC,
    only a truly ignorant or twisted person would make that assumption. The problem is JC is a decent man and won’t use the same dirty tricks and join in with the smear campaign that his opponent’s and detracters do.
    Okay, do you get it.
    Unless you are massively wealthy, have private healthcare and have no social conscience you should not vote for the Tories.

    There is a phrase for that: “White Wash”

    It is highly imperfect, but it shows the low-water mark of actual evidence of anti-semitism in the party (as requested by the OP), and it doesn’t say there is no problem, it says there is definitely a problem, and details how to start fixing it.

    Can someone point me in the direction of some actual evidence for all of this? I keep hearing the accusation and im trying to decide if this a real issue or a nasty stitch up.

    The answer is yes, according to the Labour Party itself.

    What the report doesn’t address is whether senior Labour figures, including Corbyn, are directly or indirectly responsible for the toxic environment described in the report. And that will always be a matter of opinion, possibly coloured by political animus.

    footflaps
    Member

    The Tories doing what they do best, winning elections at all and any cost.

    I think you’ll find this is for all parties.

    No, I think JC would rather lose the election and not compromise on anything than compromise and win. They certainly have ignored all the basics which Blair and Campbell used to win three elections in a row. E.g. everyday I walk to the Coop for a sandwich for lunch and see a whole shelf of papers with anti-Corbyn headlines every single day. Pissing off the entire media machine before you start an election campaign is certainly a ‘bold’ move. Blair and Campbell knew they couldn’t win with the entire press machine against them and went to great lengths to get most of them on side.

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