it may have been a mistake 🙂

This is like one of those fights in the movies, the assailants slugging it out with fists, kicks, chairs, breaking bottles on each others’ heads……and every time you think it’s over they get up again and start all over.

Whereas a real fight is two punches that barely land, and then one person realises they’re on a hiding to nothing and sensibly decides to run away

My dormant-forum-account-recently-reactivated-****er-o-meter is frankly going nuts.

Aye, getting those vibes

I can confirm that I’m a bot

I like the fight analogy.

Some interesting and valid arguments made about societal responsibility, but none that I personally agree with.

I can confirm that I’m a bot

Botfink?

His counterpoints are like a shield of steel

Obvious troll complains about being trolled and then throws in a new variant of the Edinburgh Defence for good measure?!

Well that got weird.

Im reporting you -PJM1974 for abuse

Fair enough i have an argument or difference of option with cougar, but you’ve just sat on the sidelines throwing out insults at me. That i feel is you being abusive so i feel it only fair i report that as such.

Then go ahead and report me, feel free to explain to the moderators where I’ve broken forum rules.

Well im just being trolled arent I. Doesnt matter to what my opinion is, im constantly being asked to explain how i feel about this , and that is being demeaned. So no matter what I say my opinion isnt accepted.,it just leads on to more and more questions. There im being accused of not answering questions, but its only me answering or attempting to. Nothing ive said is answered.

Sealioning. Or better yet, this grammatical gem –

No I got it from an American democracy site.So its been partly quoted

Posting silly gif things. again points more to pjm’s need to be accepted as a funny guy,but always at the expense of others

He’s trolling. Sitting there thinking up things he feels are funny and looking to get a laugh at someone else expense. Again nothing whatsoever to do with the thread or the questions at hand, all for his personal enjoyment and hoping to get a rise. Im more than sure he wouldnt talk to anyone like that down the pub, but hiding behind a keyboard he’s an absolute wag

Perhaps you’ve conflated my utter contempt for your posts in this thread with some weapons grade projection here.

Dyna-ti…… your posts are becoming more and more incoherent.

Quite.

Obvious troll complains about being trolled and then throws in a new variant of the Edinburgh Defence for good measure?!

Yep. Easily the most bizarre forum interaction I’ve had in my thirteen and a half years here.

*steps slowly away…..

Yeah whatever. My opinion differs form yours, my personal feeling on vaccination differs from yours so therefore im the troll.

Its quite the easy answer, so you attack me for that. Personally and in light of topics like this i no longer give a rats.

Why then constantly push things if not to bait me. Why the hell.Is that your form of entertainment ?.

My opinion differs form yours, my personal feeling on vaccination differs from yours so therefore im the troll.

Didn’t you call those refusing the vaccine idiots?

dyna ti – takes two to tango

I have a lot of sympathy with your position and dislike the vaccine mandate for healthcare staff for two reasons – one is the ethical, the other is the practical

The balance between freedom and responsibilities is always there.  We have many things that are restricted either by private companies or government.  for example a dress codes in restaurants or needing a license to drive

the question is where do you draw the line with vaccinations.  Its cannot be an absolute position either way because you cannot have total freedom as that means driving without training license or insurance but total prescription is a nasty place to be – totalitarianism

We will all draw this line in different places because of our personal philosophies.  No position is wrong as its all subjective

Ages ago it was obvious this debate on here was going round in circles with folk on both sides of it not recognising the nuance

I suggest that like me you have made your point, others disagree and its time to walk away

I see you as very different to Jude whos actions are IMO bang out of order and wrong on the science.  Its not a rational stance.  You have just be advocating a rational position rather strongly and refusig to see that other rational positions are possible

Take a spot of advice from a reformed ( ish) mega arguer.  Walk away from this

Well fair enough tj, i accept all you’ve said. And thank you for that

@PJM

If the mods think im being oversensitive in relation to yourself, ill accept their opinion on it, they are moderation afterall. Personally I feel that if you didnt have anything to say or add, constantly taking little snipes werent welcome, as i pointed out to you a couple of times, but you continued. That to me, if anything can be considered trolling, it fits the bill.

Anyway.

Moving on still nothing on the government saying they were looking back into the NHS policy and with less than a week to go. I suppose we shouldn’t be shocked.

I would suspect Drac thats an arguement between the backbench covid recovery group and the minister with input from the emplyers and employees side.  almost guarenteed to have the wrong reasons for any decision!  its not about the science or the ethics or the practicalities – its about how it plays to the right wing press

@PJM

If the mods think im being oversensitive in relation to yourself, ill accept their opinion on it, they are moderation afterall. Personally I feel that if you didnt have anything to say or add, constantly taking little snipes werent welcome, as i pointed out to you a couple of times, but you continued. That to me, if anything can be considered trolling, it fits the bill.

I take exception to being gaslit and patronised, even more so when I have to wade through pages of word salad.

Also, the catalyst for my response was this:

Perhaps you’re sitting too close to it.

– you might recognise your own post, perhaps.

As before, my position is that I’ve lost two family members to Covid and I’m absolutely not going to be quiet about the impact on myself and my family. Furthermore, I’ve close family and friends who are in the clinically vulnerable category, I will do my utmost to argue for their safety.

All I’ve seen from you so far is word salad and cod-psychology.

T J again, I can see them leaving it to trusts to sort… no country wide “mandate”, but lots of advice about responsibility to get it out of the press but leaving in place the pressure to redeploy holds outs just as if the “mandate” was in place (but with flexibility given to trusts as regards dates and staffing issues).

I don’t think I want to take part in this discussion any further, I don’t believe it’s doing you any good. I will just say one last thing though.

I don’t really think anyone here is trolling, yourself included. I think you’re unwilling or unable to accept that you might be wrong, but we’re all guilty of that to varying extents and that’s not the same thing.

But I think now you’ve accused literally everyone who disagrees with you now of being a troll, myself included. Run the numbers, do you really think it’s likely that everyone else is trolling you?

I didn’t know you were ill and I’m genuinely sorry to hear that. I’ll try to be mindful of it in future. A word to the wise though from someone who is no stranger to sleep depravation himself, perhaps consider walking away occasionally and coming back later when you’re less exhausted. I teased about it earlier but it’s true, firing out immediate responses isn’t mandatory.

constantly taking little snipes werent welcome

You called me pongo just ten hours (and three pages) back. I dunno – maybe that’s a compliment? 🙂

We can have different opinions, and we can discuss them, we can even agree to disagree – as adults, that’s absolutely fine. Me not agreeing with you – that’s not a personal attack, or a restriction on your freedom. I just think you’re wrong, that’s all – no-one’s got hurt, the sun will still rise tomorrow.

Got to be end of the thread time now surely?

Sorry Pondo, that was unintentional. I didnt actually notice myself. No insult intended.

Again no offence, but its now actually quite funny..I’ve no idea who or what a pongo is. For that matter ive no idea what a Pondo is. But an oversight trying to type too fast.

I’ve since found out Pongo is a dog in 101 dalmatians. Not my intention, im not that type of person really.

I think maybe the word troll is maybe banded about a bit too freely. And it can be a bit of a provocative concept when used in emotive threads where people have strong feelings about their point of view.

Got to be end of the thread time now surely?

Cant see why now things are cleared up.

Afraid 😛

Except what we have here is more akin to this:

I think maybe the word troll is maybe banded about a bit too freely.

Well, you’re trying hard to make it seem that way…

So he’s just trolling then ?

Well im just being trolled arent I.

He’s trolling.

‘b’ ‘t’

Sorry Kelvin. Are you saying im alone in calling troll. Why not please single one out when others have used the term too.

Maybe it’s time that this thread was closed.

Maybe it’s time that this thread was closed.

Drat, I never did get that ‘American democracy website’ link from dyna-ti

Dyna-ti? Last attempt? Otherwise I’ll maybe never know/learn what you mean by ‘democracy’? And how we seem to have different understandings of it. Or whether or not my democratic freedoms were violated when I was required to have vaccinations in order to apply for the US residency?

‘Land of the Free, home of the vaccinated?’ Doesn’t sound catchy. At the time I didn’t care, roll up the sleeve, it was just a process, part of the deal, just like a valid passport? But now, reading all of this ‘freedom’ stuff on social media and also encountering these different definitions of democracy? I can feel my brain going elsewhere. A place where anything and everything proves to be not all ‘as you were’?

(To room): Haven’t certain States also mandated frontline healthcare workers during this pandemic?

Haven’t certain States also mandated frontline healthcare workers during this pandemic?

It’d be difficult to treat anyone without them, so probably. 😁

Sorry Pondo, that was unintentional. I didnt actually notice myself. No insult intended.

No worries, chap. 🙂

Dyna-ti? Last attempt? Otherwise I’ll maybe never know/learn what you mean by ‘democracy’?

Yet again p7, you insist on making this thread about me and my personal feelings on the matter, as well as throwing in pics with the intention of ridicule. Stick to the topic. you’ve posted dozens of the same thing.

Here to remind you. Because im not going to continue to answer your ridiculous questioning.

“With all the stories about sick leave cuts, movement limitations, etc for those who haven’t been vaccinated, are we seeing a sensible approach, or a lot of political and personal feelings getting in the way of the current situation?

I might need a bit of education on this, but I thought the vaccine was to minimize the risk posed by the known strains, but with the lifting of restrictions and hospitalization being down and manageable, is it really fair to punish personal choice in this manner? ”

Here:

US High Court OKs Vaccine Mandate for Health Care Workers, Not Businesses

Federal mandate went through, and requirments began as of yesterday:

Health care workers in about half the states face a Thursday deadline to get their first dose of the COVID-19 vaccine under a Biden administration mandate that will be rolled out across the rest of the country in the coming weeks.

Certain States (such as California) already had their own fully vaccinated mandates for federally-funded healthcare-workers in place autumn last year and then in Dec decided to expand the mandate to the booster shot.

Wrong link

found it though. And the problemis goign tto be

“While the requirement is welcomed by some, others fear it will worsen already serious staff shortages if employees quit rather than comply.”

OK, the US system of healthcare is different from the UK, in that everything there is private and paid for by the patient(customer) and so in the UK it will have a crippling effect on the NHS staffing levels and maybe its ability to offer care to many of its patients.

Is it accepted that the state of danger from the current mutation being not as dangerous as the original virus, that forcing staff to perhaps quit is a step too much.

If the government u turns on this then that is possibly a sign that they have weighed up these risks and feel the prospect of losing some, is outweighed the possibility of the NHS being unable to function.

Is it accepted that the state of danger from the current mutation being not as dangerous as the original virus, that forcing staff to perhaps quit is a step too much.

It’s not about the current strain though, I mean it was announced before then for a start. It’s about possible future strains and the impact it can have.

If the government u turns on this then that is possibly a sign that they have weighed up these risks and feel the prospect of losing some, is outweighed the possibility of the NHS being unable to function.

Could be but they’ve got days to do that and mean time trusts are already meeting with staff who are refusing to discuss options.

Agree. I think the future strains are the unknown and we’re all hoping it settles down into something akin to the omicron, where the symptoms are mild, and the death rate as low as flu, or lower.

But until the main governments look to vaccinate the planet these mutations will continue to er well mutate 🙂

I know i know, thats not in keeping with personal choice 😆 but that might be something thats unavoidable.

But until the main governments look to vaccinate the planet these mutations will continue to er well mutate

Really? Do vaccinations stop mutations?

But until the main governments look to vaccinate the planet these mutations will continue to er well mutate

Hard agree here. There are (appox) 3bn people yet to receive a vaccine, my personal opinion is that we need a coordinated international effort to vaccinate as many people as we possibly can.