I’ve got a 27.5 140mm hardtail (sentier) which is fine for most of my riding (Thetford, Woburn, Chicksands, Pheonix) but I’d like to do trips to BPW, try Dyfi etc and also bigger days in the peak or lakes.

£2k C2W limit.

Nukeproof reactor
Trek Fuel or Remedy

WWSTWD?

Well, first question is … do you want ‘downcountry’ (shudders!) … or Enduro. As they are quite different things…

If you want BPW you want more than a downcountry. They’re about 140mm.

Imo you want 160 or more for things like BPW. Of course, on here they ride the blacks on rigid 1990s bikes. But in the real world, people run 160+

I’d go for slack 160, like say a privateer 161 used, or a Remedy used, I wouldn’t go Fuel. Although mine worked fine.

I don’t know, hence the question! Should have been clear this will be my first FS.

And probably equal priority for bike park Vs peak\lakes days, unless I should ride the HT for those.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/185813171019?hash=item2b4353fb4b:g:KWAAAOSwh41kD3uA&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA0EKlWjVC072CCWCP2YI8tgQJh7kr4QyUeMsI9g0ed%2BFDcUjimrBhv8Eq3CCtZvkTRoLNnPuns8ivQiZ4hoPD84gfzu%2F%2BIOE04GatsVgp5cal6qmgGtb%2FRP8ZIJ3KIFGWjjixkDYGXnXDFeQHK67KQsul00qaL%2BJnUw7s1tb9ZTE6YVZ2BitxfbqxZ6JFuBqYxirEZ6apV4yFSO7Wm4EltvgircqjURPReGOUwsAAJz%2Fw8VEM49ulicjn6mKO%2B2GeBm26%2Bcc%2B7bT7cjMN%2BYurhJg%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR9DJ64DgYQ

You get a lot for £2000

If you want BPW you want more than a downcountry. They’re about 140mm.

Imo you want 160 or more for things like BPW. Of course, on here they ride the blacks on rigid 1990s bikes. But in the real world, people run 160+

whoa there – 140mm is too big for downcountry. Thats more trail.

you can see how this easily gets out of hand.

I’m a lover of short travel bikes but if you love and are keeping your hardtail for localish riding and want to dabble in BPW, Dyfi and the like then go as big as you can

If you want BPW you want more than a downcountry. They’re about 140mm.

120mm

It feels a bit like the bike industry talking to itself… but basically it’s a short travel bike with fun downhill rather than XC race geometry and build kit.

If you’re keeping the hardtail… get a trail bike with 150mm up front 140 rear minimum travel… make the bikes more different.

To disagree with Weeksy to some extent, a ‘Downcountry’ tends to be 120-130mm travel lighter build bikes with more ‘modern’ geometry than dedicated XC race machines.  “Enduro’ tends to cover 150-180mm.  You don’t ‘need’ 160mm for BPW, a trail bike is fine for a lot of it, but for the reds and up a 150mm+ FS is arguably best.  Dyfi is more enduro / DH bike territory.  If you’re buying a bike primarily for uplift and bigger hills I’d want an enduro.

For £2K new you’re struggling, but if the size fits some good deals here: Bird AM9

I don’t know, hence the question! Should have been clear this will be my first FS.

It goes:

Cross country: rear 100mm, front 100mm, maybe 120mm
‘Downcountry’: rear 100/120mm, front 120/130mm
Trail (All mountain in the US): 140-160mm front & rear
Enduro: 150-170mm front & rear
Super Enduro: 170-190mm front & rear

My choice of weapon for BPW, Lakes, Peaks, Scotland etc (more natural mountain trails than bike park stuff) was a 150mm rear/160mm front, coil rear shock trail bike which was leaning towards ‘light enduro’. I’ve now got a 175mm rear, 170mm front, coil shock beast.

Something in the 150-170mm range would be fantastic, 64 head angle or slacker, 29er too (unless you’re very short).

For £2k you’d do far worse than something like a Vitus Sommet CR

https://www.wiggle.co.uk/vitus-sommet-29-cr-mountain-bike

If it needs to be C2W as opposed to other payments, then a Boardman FS might be worth a look at either Halfords or from Tredz. Sonder if they have anything in budget, and if they work with your C2W scheme provider.

Boardman MTR 8.9 would be in budget, but they’re out of stock atm.

Edit: I have a 27.5 Sommet and it’s deffo great pointing downhill

For £2k you’d do far worse than something like a Vitus Sommet CR

https://www.wiggle.co.uk/vitus-sommet-29-cr-mountain-bike

Take another 15% off with EXTRA15 and that’s lot of bike for the money (these days etc….)

Slightly confused by the notion that the Peak and the Lakes are being lumped together bikestylewise….

I loathed my occam for the first few weeks when I only used it in the Peak. Was only when I took it to the totally different Lakes style trails that I realised what it was for.

Optimal Peak bike is much shorter travel ( angles) than optimal Lakes bike imho.

Cross country: rear 100mm, front 100mm, maybe 120mm
‘Downcountry’: rear 100/120mm, front 120/130mm
Trail (All mountain in the US): 140-160mm front & rear
Enduro: 150-170mm front & rear
Super Enduro: 170-190mm front & rear

god help us, save MTB from the marketers

The £2k limit combined with C2W is going to be you issue here. For what you say I’d 150mm travel or more – it’ll still ride round big natural days as well – but be better for your uplift style days.

For £1999 I don’t think you can really beat that Vitus Sommet listed above – but I don’t think Wiggle / CRC are taking C2W vouchers at the moment. Vitus Escarpe might just about so the job too – but again C2W issue.

Bird do and the AM9 would be ideal – but £2k probably isn’t quite enough. Maybe they could do something for that budget missing a few parts and you buy them seperately 🤷‍♂️

Sonder Evol is a decent travel 29er and usually at the budget end so have a look there too.

Go Outdoors used to stick the Calibre Sentry but I think that’s now out of production – maybe have a look and see if they have any Polygon bikes that fit the fit perhaps.

Based on what I ride there, they’re very similar – wide, multi line, often fast, trails – loose rocks, baby heads, etc.

The lakes are maybe a bit rougher/more gnarly in general but the peaks has the beast, potato alley, Jacobs ladder etc. so plenty of tech.

Imo you want 160 or more for things like BPW. Of course, on here they ride the blacks on rigid 1990s bikes. But in the real world, people run 160+

Holy Moly. And here is me actively choosing to take my 120mm DC bike to race there on Wednesday over my big bike 😆

@hobnob

Holy Moly. And here is me actively choosing to take my 120mm DC bike to race there on Wednesday over my big bike

You will be the exception rather than the norm I suspect. But I also expect you’ll do pretty damn well. As I’ve said all along, just because you can ride something on xyz bike, doesn’t mean we all can.

I’m looking forward to it, although we’ll be racing very different races on Weds. If I’m in your way, don’t bother shouting though, I’m not listening 🤣🤣

Of course BPW and the like is rideable on a hardtail / xc bike / down country etc.

But if you want to ride flat out all day on the uplift then more travel is your friend. Even the blues beat you up as you’re going so fast for so long before getting a rest. A couple of back to back runs on roots Manoevres turns my legs to pulp on a 160/150mm Transition Sentinel 29er and I’m not wildly heavy or unfit.

I did a half day at Flyup 417 on my Vitus Sentier hardtail a few years back and I was pretty quick (got a pb on the original blue) but my legs were mush by lunchtime.

Have a good think
my first FS was a bird Aeris 145.. a great bike, but it wasn’t the bike for me, i went bigger rather than smaller.. and ended up building a snow plow.. i found it hard to throw around, hard to weight the front, it was just really good at getting down through stuff and saving my arse. only a 160/145mm bike but i specced it wrong for what i actually wanted.. I replaced it with a banshee spitfire in a normal size for me and its much more the bike i want with squish up the rear.
In short, don’t just buy something to suit your budget if it doesn’t cover what you ride it for. I you are keeping the hardtail, then look at bikes further away from what you will use the hardtail for, and if in doubt go test ride / demo day/ hire

You are only allowed membership into the Downcountry Dudes™ with bikes of 120mm front and rear… No more. No less and definitely no hard tails!

OK, I’m going against the MORE TRAVEL grain here…

Buy the bike that suits what you ride most, but can extend to what you want to ride. I’ve been mulling this one over for a while. My riding used to be mostly casual off roud riding with the occasional trip into the peak or some local woods. 130mm f/r xc-ish geo was working fine for everything really. But once I started more regularly riding steeper things I was occasionally running out of bike*

Cue a Vitus escarpe 140mm frame in CRC sale. The whole bike can be had for under 2k and with 140mm rear / 150mm up front it can do most things for most riders most of the time.

* skills compensator. I know. I’m still learning.

i had a 5010 mk2 140/130 and that was one of the first downcountry’s, is downcountry shorter now..

the vitus on CRC/wiggle with 15% off cant be beaten at that price range.

look at the quality of forks as well fox 36 at 140mm is gonna be far better for me than a 150-160mm weaker fork.

Based on what I ride there, they’re very similar – wide, multi line, often fast, trails – loose rocks, baby heads, etc.

Either I need to show you some proper Lakes singletrack, or you need to show me some of the amazing Peak single track 🙂

You need a slack 140mm-ish bike that pedals well and isn’t massively heavy.

£2k on C2W though? Which providers can you use? Can you get a discounted bike from CRC on C2W?

Have a think about when and where you are going to use the bike. It may well become your go to bike and you stop using the hardtail in which case I think 160mm each end would be overkill. You can easily ride a trail bike at BPW all day, there are such a variety of trails there that there isn’t a perfect bike for everything.

I think a Trek Fuel would be perfect but you wouldn’t get a good one new for £2k. A friend who rides similar places to you had a fuel and I think it’s great, it’s got plenty of travel but also pedals well so feels a lot more efficient than a full on enduro bike.

Enduro + downcountry = trail 😀,
150mm f+r, I remember when 150mm was everywhere and a popular choice with loads of brands having a 150mm frame. 140, 160+ seem more popular now.

I don’t know, hence the question! Should have been clear this will be my first FS.

Maybe look from a different perspective.
There are a load of “classifications” written by marketing people to match trends or to change trends to what they want to sell.

Then there is the other side of marketing with sponsorship of pro riders for very specific race formats and then further set-up so that they are only really working properly in a very high level race.

No-one would really want to ride a pro Race Bike of any kind for anything that isn’t racing or training for racing because they are designed and then set up for the extremes and things like comfort are not on the list of desirable things however pro riders winning stuff sells bikes.

Thus we end up with a set of categories for the rest of us… somewhat loosely based on racing categories and the spaces between the categories. What one manufacturer classes as “down country” or “trail” etc. can be different to another.
I guess downcounty can range form the same as XC race but heavier and cheap components to slacker and/or stronger etc. where it merges into “trail” (if that even still exists universally across manufacturers) that merges into longer travel “fun” etc.

Usually the “buy the bike for 80%+ of your riding” is great advice unless .. its a second bike or the 20% is going to snap it.

For a second bike it’s really personal but my feeling is leave some differentiation between the bikes.
A 140mm Sentier is pretty capable and I assume you aren’t looking for a “less capable” FS so I’d be looking more at “trail” than down country???

If you want to use the C2W and buy new I personally found the Remedy underwhelmingly bland (not to say its not capable) vs a Reactor that looks more designed for fun… Stumpies are also a lot of “fun” but probably outside the 2k limit and Aether 7 is very slightly over (starting £2,043.00)

I’d always go bigger for FS – given when I got a similar travel to my 130mm FS I ended up choosing the hard tail over the FS for everything – including BPW trips…

i had a 5010 mk2 140/130 and that was one of the first downcountry’s, is downcountry shorter now..

To get really nerdy

5010.2 production ran from 2016 to 2018 (https://www.santacruzbicycles.com/en-GB/bike/5010/2)

First use of the term Downcountry April 2018 (https://www.pinkbike.com/news/what-the-heck-is-a-down-country-bike-opinion.html)

Ive been watching this tread and silently laughing as I remember reading a thread on here a few years back about being over biked, when I read that i was all ” naa 160mm is the best all round ammount of travel ” The thread was full of at the time soapboxed riders claiming less it more.. Move on 2-3 years and I have to agree. As a Lakes, Peaks and trail centre warrior Id rather take my ” Down county bike” I mean the one with 120 rear 140 front over my 170 front 160 rear. The lesser travel bike is more than capable of everything this mear mortal can do on a bike see.. The Downhiller’s XC Bike 🙂

I really does make me think about weather I need a bigger bike ? ?

Downcountry was first used as a pisstake term in the PB comments section – true story or is that urban online legend?

Anyway… ‘Downcountry’ bikes have existed since we used to put Tioga Factory DH tyres, Azonic bar + stems and longer forks onto Kona hardtails in ~1997. Then the SC Chameleon came along in size L, a jump/4X style bike that fitted well for long XC days. Taking an XC-capable bike and adding some harder hitting ability is the way I’ve always thought ‘trail’ bikes should be approached, probably influenced by those late 90s builds.

If I was doing the same with a FS bike ow I’d look for the right geometry in a 120mm-ish 29er. A bit more on the fork maybe but would rather go up in fork stiffness + quality of damping than travel.

<span style=”font-size: 0.8rem;”>Downcountry was first used as a pisstake term in the PB comments section – true story or is that urban online legend?</span>

I think it was coined in a PB article by one of the Mikes and just sort of stuck and next thing you know the marketeers have run away with it.

You really need to think about where you are going to ride it most. A bike thats perfect for the Peak will not be optimum for some of the harder blacks at BPW / Dyfi. Alternatively a full on enduro rig will be a bit of a dog for 80% of your ride in the Peak. At some point you are going to have to compromise.

My personal compromise is a Cotic Jeht (150/140) which is mostly used for Peak riding where it excels but I also use it for Stiniog / BPW / Dyfi where it works just fine. But I have to admit something more akin to an enduro bike would work even better for uplift stuff.

Sorry, to clairify it’s Cyclescheme so open to a range of shops.

I’m more concerned about something pedalling badly rather than running out of travel. Shortlist is currently

Bird AM9 or Nukeproof Reactor

@stevextc you comment has me erring towards the AM9

The am9 is more enduro focused IMO, it was Bird’s longest travel 29er until recently and can take a 170mm fork. The Reactor would more of a trail bike. They would both be great but I think the Reactor would suit most of your riding and maybe slightly compromised on bigger stuff with the Bird being better on gnarlier stuff and not so good for flatter, more pedaly trails

Everyone has a different viewpoint on this I guess – depending on what they rode and how often.

I enjoyed my 150mm front / 130mm rear Bird Aether 7 – but at Antur Stiniog I felt brutally beaten up vs the previous visit on my Bird Aeris 145 LT (170mm front / 160mm rear).

I think with 29er you can get away with a bit less travel – I’m on a transition sentinel with 160mm front / 150mm rear as standard. With the air shock and standard linkage it was a really decent donut all bike and I’ve hammered BPW on it and it was superb. I’ve tweaked mine now with a coil shock and cascade link and it’s excellent downhill and still climbs alright – but it’s probably slightly less fun on pedally flat stuff.

That middle ground long trail bike travel with enduro style geometry is a bit of a sweet spot I reckon.

Just for £2k on C2W it’s quite restrictive to get.

@stevextc you comment has me erring towards the AM9

I’m unashamedly a Bird fanboi … and it certainly fits the “different enough to the Sentier” I’d certainly take advantage of the demo rides if you can though and if looking at a reactor don’t discount the Aether if you can do a demo try both.

Bird AM9 or Nukeproof Reactor

Whoa neddy! Two different bikes. It you like those brands then AM9 = Mega; Aether = Reactor

My mate “rides park” and he’s on a Birth Aether. His view is that its way more fun and less of a plough on everything else.

The AM9 built up with a lighter fork / air shock etc would probably do what you need nicely. The Aether 9 alloy would also do it too.

The AM9 will cushion you a bit more than the Aether on the harder end of stuff (I’d probably run the AM9 with a 160mm fork and the Aether with a 150mm fork), the Aether will be better on trail centre poppy stuff as it has shorter chainstays for whipping round corners.

I’m a big fan of Bird bikes having had 2 proper to this. I suspect the Bird Aether 9 will be a bit livelier than the Nukeproof Reactor but there probably isn’t a lot in it.

So the Mega has dropped into budget, but I can stretch a little and get an Aeris 9A with a 150mm lyric. So I’m going to do that.

Last choice is tyres, pretty much any Maxxis combo in Exo maxterra. Aessegai, dhr2, dhf, dissector, rekon. Would probably go with magic Mary \ Hans dampf, or maybe dampf out front with something faster in schwalbe.