so whats with all the sectarian murder of muslims in burma by those so called peaceful buddhists ?– i suppose we will have people saying they are not proper buddhists–but really , they are as intolerant as all other groups really….

they are as intolerant as all other groups really….

One news story and that’s all Bhuddists exposed as terrorists, is that it?

including aethists then?

Bad people do bad things sometimes they believe in god[follow a religion] sometimes they dont sometimes they support a football team sometimes they dont etc…..iirc its a people problem and without religion tolerance will not suddenly blossom from the hearts of all

Not good behaviour though but that did not really need stating

One news story and that’s all Bhuddists exposed as terrorists, is that it?

That’s not what he said. If you really want to be argumentative, at least disagree with a point that was actually made ffs.

…its a people problem…

Isn’t that the point though ?

If mountain bikers were running over walkers, saying they were doing it on behalf of STW, then the people at STW would most likely take steps to stop it, or at least distance themselves from the extremists.

Why are omnipotent gods so reluctant to intervene when the actions of a few affect the image of all their worshipers ?

Why are omnipotent gods so reluctant to intervene when the actions of a few affect the image of all their worshipers ?

No God in Buddhism, dude, at least not in the Christian sense.

Bad people do bad things

But blind faith can make good people do bad things.

Buddhism isnt supposed to be a religion anyway, just a way of life.

big image problem for a religion that uses non-agressiveness as its USP–this does not appear as an isolated incident –if it was it would be dealt with surely–there is collusion here, with the state(police/army) aiding and abetting—

Hmmm, I’ve had a few people try to convince me that buddhism is not a religion in the conventional sense.
It does seem to follow the established format of a man at the top with an easy life, while everyone else does what they are told without asking questions, so I’m not so sure.

There may not be a bloke with a beard in the sky casting lightning bolts and turning people in to pillars of salt, but isn’t there some sort of supernatural force, or whatever, that could stop this if it wanted to ?

It does seem to follow the established format of a man at the top with an easy life, while everyone else does what they are told without asking questions, so I’m not so sure.

Say whuuuuh?

Who’s the ‘man’, MTG?

I’ve never really looked in to this, so could well be wrong, but isn’t the Dalai Lama the sort of archbishop or pope of buddhism ?

I don’t rule out the possiblity that there might be more to this life than the mundane world we see around us, I just have an intense distrust of anyone who claims to act as an intermediary.
Any god who can’t be bothered to visit me personally, isn’t worth worshiping.

hey Ninjas are buddists too

I’ve never really looked in to this, so could well be wrong, but isn’t the Dalai Lama the sort of archbishop or pope of buddhism ?

Well, the Dalai Lama isn’t really the equivalent to the Pope.

According to Tibetan Buddhism, he is the reincarnation of an ancient wise guy called Avalokite?vara, the bodhisattva of compassion. He has a kind of moral authority over Buddhists, Tibetan Buddhists particularly.

But in Buddhism, it’s all about self-knowledge and enlightenment, not about a God per se.

for me , all religions are tied to states, they help each other, ideologically and physically, for buddhists to claim otherwise is disingenuous at least, dalai llama is just another leader of a big cult….like popey, and that pointy hat guy here…..

It’s perhaps significant that rudebwoy hasn’t set this in context: a row at a Muslim owned gold shop that resulted in violence, culminating in a Buddhist monk being murdered, (the shop owneres have been convicted of theft and violence), and previously the rape and murder of a Buddhist girl.

dalai llama is just another leader of a big cult….

The dalai llama? This guy?

Why does it have to be a “muslim owned” gold shop, not just a gold shop ?
As long as people identify themselves and, more importantly, other people, by their religion, I can’t see this sort of thing ever ending.

The dalai llama? This guy?

thats him–he can appear in any guise apparently–but you have him relaxing at home…

Why does it have to be a “muslim owned” gold shop, not just a gold shop ?

Because it’s not likely to be a Buddhist owned gold shop, or Christian or Jewish. 🙄

I don’t understand.
Do some religions not allow their followers to own gold shops while others do ?

Surely the point is this:

i suppose we will have people saying they are not proper buddhists–but really , they are as intolerant as all other groups really….

A tiny minority of practicing Buddhists are enraged by local circumstance and encourage/take part in violence. That, according to the Buddhist canon, it some seriously uncool behaviour.

But it speaks more of the inability of people – even some Buddhists – to see beyond their immediate problems than it does about the religion itself, which single-pointedly directs followers to look beyond inequality and injustice, to find the enlightenment beyond.

Buddhists are essentially peaceful, IMO. To slate the religion itself because some non-enlightened followers are not sufficiently enlightened to see beyond violence and retribution is missing the point.

I don’t understand.
Do some religions not allow their followers to own gold shops while others do ?

Well, in the middle and far East, It’s highly unlikely that a gold shop would be Christian owned, because gold isn’t such an important part of the social makup; it’s used for dowries and such like. Christians only make up 4% of the population in Burmah, the same as Moslems.
In any case, that’s irrelevant, it happened to be Moslem owned, the owners kicked off when accused of theft and a monk got killed. If it had been a Christian owned shop, I’m sure the end result could have been the same, but it wasn’t.
Burmah has been closed off for decades, we have no way of knowing what animosity has been building up for those years; the Taliban’s destruction of highly symbolic Buddhist statues probably didn’t help the relations between the two groups, either.

I don’t understand.
Do some religions not allow their followers to own gold shops while others do ?

Well, in the middle and far East, It’s highly unlikely that a gold shop would be Christian owned, because gold isn’t such an important part of the social makup; it’s used for dowries and such like. Christians only make up 4% of the population in Burmah, the same as Moslems.
In any case, that’s irrelevant, it happened to be Moslem owned, the owners kicked off when accused of theft and a monk got killed. If it had been a Christian owned shop, I’m sure the end result could have been the same, but it wasn’t.
Burmah has been closed off for decades, we have no way of knowing what animosity has been building up for those years; the Taliban’s destruction of highly symbolic Buddhist statues probably didn’t help the relations between the two groups, either.

they are as intolerant as all other groups really….

I took this to be branding Bhuddists as intolerant people generally.

I think that’s a bit of a sweeping statement tbh.

It’s perhaps significant that rudebwoy hasn’t set this in context: a row at a Muslim owned gold shop that resulted in violence, culminating in a Buddhist monk being murdered, (the shop owneres have been convicted of theft and violence), and previously the rape and murder of a Buddhist girl.

Well, if you can’t have faith in the hasty conviction by a Buddhist authoritarian military junta, what can you have faith in?

The fact that it was a Muslim-owned gold shop is relevant because of the massive beef between Muslims and Buddhists in the area – it was a spark for the pitchfork-wielders.

all religions claim to be enlightened, and i’m sure the vast majority of adherents are peaceful, but surely there is a problem with such an avowedly non aggressive strain as buddhism. It doesnt surprise me that this would occur, since religion is useful form of social control, but like all forms of control, they do go out sometimes….

As for the furry man in charge, found him to be very reactionary in his views……

It’s not really a problem with Bhuddism, it’s a problem with some people who claim to be Bhuddist, surely?

religion is useful form of social control, but like all forms of control, they do go out sometimes

In the context that the Buddha’s teachings advocate non-violence, I can see where you’re coming from. On the other hand, Buddhist philosophy sees beyond national boundaries and centres on the personal journey to the end goal of enlightenment.

Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned.

Are those who condone or engage in violence in Burma following the Buddha, or have they cast their reason aside?

what monks and the like ?

I’m learning stuff here. I’d never thought about Burma and what religion it’s people are before. All I knew was that Burma and the USA are the only two countries in the world still using the imperial system of measurement.

I watched this video, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-22243676 and there’s nothing to convince me that buddhism is significantly different to any other religion.
If you base your beliefs on faith, not evidence, I suppose the only way to settle disagreements with people of different faiths is to start a fight.

All I knew was that Burma and the USA are the only two countries in the world still using the imperial system of measurement.

And Liberia too. Huh!

It’s not really a problem with Bhuddism, it’s a problem with some people who claim to be Bhuddist, surely?

*cough*No true scotsman*cough*

Burma VJ is well worth a watch.

http://vimeo.com/33160416

there’s nothing to convince me that buddhism is significantly different to any other religion.

you might want to reads its message tbh rather than looking at folk who are really bad at it fighting to work this out.

There may not be a bloke with a beard in the sky casting lightning bolts and turning people in to pillars of salt, but isn’t there some sort of supernatural force, or whatever, that could stop this if it wanted to ?

No.

If you base your beliefs on faith, not evidence, I suppose the only way to settle disagreements with people of different faiths is to start a fight.

Buddhist beliefs are not based on faith. There is nothing to have faith in. There are stories which, like in other religions, have been bandied about for thousands of years, and they may or may not be true. But then that applies to much of our known history and in Buddhism it doesn’t really matter if it’s true.

I’m pretty sure events in Burma are based on circumstance and the human race. Buddhism really is the last ‘religion’ that would promote violent acts towards other groups. It is nothing like Western religions in that sense.

Of course, any group with influence and authority is potentially dangerous in the wrong hands.

rudebwoy – Member

so whats with all the sectarian murder of muslims in burma by those so called peaceful buddhists ?

Buddhism’s as varied as any other ethos tbh. Just need to look at how it integrated with shinto to see that.

The style is a bit different to what we’re kind of used to with western religion- there’s not so much “thou shalt not, else you will go to hell”, there’s lots of “thou should”. Instead of sending sinners off to hell, they go another round in the world with station and state appropriate to their actions in previous lives, it’s basically rehab for the soul (well, it’s complicated)- another chance to do well, rather than punishment for doing badly.

But the flipside of that of course is the understanding that not everyone will do well, at least not in this life.

…ethos…

Yes, that’s another word I’ve heard used to try and differentiate buddhism from other religions.

This whole reincarnation thing though, it’s still something that people only believe because they’ve been told to believe it by the man in charge.
It’s not something they believe based on evidence or personal experience, so in that respect, it’s just another religion.

I’m pretty sure events in Burma are based on circumstance and the human race. Buddhism really is the last ‘religion’ that would promote violent acts towards other groups. It is nothing like Western religions in that sense.

Why do you think that the pitchfork-wielding was less likely to occur in Burma because the majority was Buddhist instead of being, say, a bunch of Prods?

Why do you think that the pitchfork-wielding was less likely to occur in Burma because the majority was Buddhist instead of being, say, a bunch of Prods?

I don’t. It is as likely to happen in Burma as it is anywhere. My point is that Buddhism has absolutely nothing to do with it.

It’s like capturing a murderer, noting that he’s black, and then coming to the conclusion that black people are murderers.