Acheiving nothing.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2012/02/07/network-rail-chief-sir-david-higgins-finally-gives-up-his-340k-bonus-in-face-of-public-outrage-86908-23739234/

It will achieve something. They’ve donated their bonuses to ensuring safer level crossings. Thus less dead 14 year old girls

They could have done something about this very subject in the preceeding years, but decided to put their fingers in their ears and say ‘NA NA NA! NOT LIIIIIIIIISTENING”

Oh no, how ever will he survive on a meagre £560,000 salary

Who do we think is to blame? Millibland?

Daily Fail?

aye we need to subsidise these poor souls running publicly owned [ and /or heavily subsidided] industries and make sure they reap the financial rewards their immense talents deserve.
If we do not do this then the “talent” will be gone and we will need to find someone else to half the share price, sack loads of workers and run it in a piss poor fashion. IMHO it would be nigh on impossible to find “talent” like this as the FA seem busy at the minute 😉

Whatever anyone thinks of bonuses I assume most want it to reward good or exceptional performance

Former Labour transport minister Harris added: “Network Rail were found in breach of their own licence last year by the rail regulator.

“Rail freight movements in the past year have reduced in performance, as have passenger services.

“It’s difficult to say the directors should be rewarded as there’s nothing to be rewarded for.”

they should pay some of their salary back as well a sthey seem to be quite shit at their job.

think of the tax that will not go back into the system.

Less than the taxpayers money saved 🙄

Junkyard – YGM

So far, some fine examples of aplauding gesture politics.

This:
“ONE of the problems with Britain’s rail industry is its nightmarish, confusing structure. It is part private, part government owned; part financed by users and part by state subsidies; and few people understand the real costs of the railway services they use, or who is really in charge. When it comes to rail travel, politics has trumped economic rationality for many decades – and continues to do so today.

The industry was grossly mismanaged and under-invested during the 1970s and 1980s, when it was in full public ownership; its artificial break-up on functional rather than geographic lines in 1994 was flawed; the semi-privatisation of 1996 (massive subsidies remained) was doomed from the start, even though services improved and passenger numbers rocketed. The privatised firms inherited a dilapidated infrastructure which triggered human tragedy, financial catastrophe and partial renationalisation. The set-up today is one giant, corporatist mess which satisfies nobody. Subsidies are huge, fares are increasingly steep, resources are misallocated and services are not good enough.

Network Rail isn’t owned by anybody: it does not have shareholders, but 78 members, who can appoint and remove directors. The department for transport – which subsidises it to the tune of £4bn a year – is a special member. This weird structure emerged from one of the murkier affairs of the Labour years: the dubious way Railtrack – the previous private infrastructure operator – was forced into bankruptcy in 2001-02 by a government that wanted to renationalise it but didn’t have the guts to say so, and then shoved its successor into a structure designed purely to maintain its massive liabilities off the public sector’s books. Yet its £20bn debt capital markets programme is underwritten by the government, which would pocket any proceeds if the company were sold. The Strategic Rail Authority holds “reserve powers”. Network Rail is a creature of off balance sheet accounting, an incoherent hybrid in desperate need of reform.

Yesterday’s bonus climbdown confirms the government controls the organisation; its status must reflect this. Directors’ bonuses will be paid into a safety fund to signal contrition for accidents in 2005 and 2007, for which the company faces prosecution (though Sir David Higgins, the CEO, has only just joined the firm). Talk about PR being elevated over substance: either Network Rail is spending enough on safety; or it isn’t. If the latter, then this is a disgrace that needs to be remedied immediately; £1m won’t make much difference. If it is the former, then why bother? By implying pay is reducing spending on safety, the directors will now face claims that any money they are handed in future would jeopardise passengers’ safety.

That said, I don’t feel sorry for them. I was angered at Stephen Hester’s treatment: he was hired on the assumption that RBS would be treated like a private firm, with private levels of pay, to turn the bank around; he was sold a pup. The Network Rail situation is different; a radical shake-up of contracts and structures is required. But there are dangers: first, that nobody of talent or ambition will ever again want to join public sector firms; and second that the war on wealth will move from public to private sector, and that even successful, unsubsidised individuals who are creating profits and jobs are going to be demonised. I hope the coalition knows what it has unleashed.”

What a strange thing to get upset about. Not unusual for Woppit though.

How dare people suggest that vast bonuses, if they are to be awarded at all, should only be to reward exceptional performance? 😕

That said, I don’t feel sorry for them. I was angered at Stephen Hester’s treatment:

Yes, of all the injustices in the world, him not getting his bonus really ranks as one of the most appalling.

But there are dangers: first, that nobody incredibly greedy will ever again want to join public sector firms;

FTFY.

Where is that quote from Woppit? rather a one eyed view.

remember boardroom remuneration has increased dramatically with no relation to performance and far ahead of inflation.

tj – you know there will not be a penny of tax money saved.

it would seem that the money has now gone to a charity, that’s nice. so the bonus has not gone back into the tax system.

I’m all in favour of bonuses to reward exceptional performance. However the culture in the boardroom seems to be that a bonus is viewed as expected, non pensionable salary. Additional rewards for doing your job are not really acceptable. It is plain to see that Railtrack is not delivering above and beyond what is reasonably expected of it, therefore no bonus should be given.

you know there will not be a penny of tax money saved.

yes but they will not get it either and it may help save lives….surely this is better than a crap manager getting a huge bonus?

TJ no access to mail till late tonight will check it then

We’ve got a PM who’s a PR bloke, and you’re concerned about ‘gesture politics’? Dear god! 😯

And if you were genuinely angered at Stephen Hester’s treatment, I suggest a sense of proportion may be something you work on developing

I mean, really…. having pressure applied to not take your whopping bonus, on top of your huge salary? All for doing a not-very-good job (ie halving the share price)?

Its hardly communism, is it?

the war on wealth

I prefer to think of it as the Attack on Avarice. I get really irritated with these lazy attempts to subvert legitimate moral concerns by trying to recast them as the product of envy.

Where’d you get the idea that I was angry?

TandemJeremy – Member

remember boardroom remuneration has increased dramatically with no relation to performance and far ahead of inflation.

How does forcing the heads of publicly owned/semi-private companies to give up bonuses challenge this?

Where’d you get the idea that I was angry?

Why did you post it then if you don’t agree with it? Why didnt you say where the quote is from if it’s a quote? It’s just pretty low-grade trolling tbh.

Where’d you get the idea that I was angry?

Oh… I’ve no idea Mr W. How could I possibly have jumped to that conclusion?

Perhaps its your thread title? Or maybe quoting some right-wing, Milton Friedman, Chicago School drivel about being outraged at the populace having the temerity to try and keep a check on unlimited, unearned greed?

Including the statement

I was angered at Stephen Hester’s treatment

🙄

Railtrack is not delivering above and beyond what is reasonably expected of it, therefore no bonus should be given.

You’re about a decade behind the times.

Network Rail is the owner/operator of most rail infrastructure in the UK.

That said, as someone who has spent numerous years banging his head against a wall whenever having to deal with NR in respect of third party investment in rail infrastructure in the UK, I can safely say that I couldn’t care less what they want to call themselves. Unless they change it to “Useless and Obstructive ****”, it is not accurate 🙂

binners – this: ” is a quote mark.

One at each end of a paragraph or several, means that it is someone else’s work, including the emotions expressed therein.

Junkyard – Member

you know there will not be a penny of tax money saved.

yes but they will not get it either and it may help save lives….surely this is better than a crap manager getting a huge bonus?

Which charity? Livestrong?

So you’re own personal input to this debate is thus

Another pointless sacrifice to the baying mob. Acheiving nothing.

That’s it, is it? Just a random article you found? That you decided we’d all benefit from? So you’d kindly share? And your title suggests, in no way, that you agree with it in any way whatsoever?

Maybe you need to add one of those Hollywood style disclaimers in small print at the bottom of your posts

* The frankly moronic free-market drivel you have just read is in no way connected to Mr Woppits ACTUAL opinions. Only some right-wing swivel-eyed half wit could really be so truly stupid as to voice such utter crap

That kind of thing?

“applauds Binners

Which charity? Livestrong?

Clever 😀
It has gone to one to stop deaths on level crossing though 0- perhap sit is just a fund rather than a charity”

“I put quote marks in so I can deny everything even this ”

binners – this: ” is a quote mark.

One at each end of a paragraph or several, means that it is someone else’s work, including the emotions expressed therein.

So why did you post it and put ‘This:’ before it, and not offer any other comment/argument of your own? What satisfaction do you gain from this crappy trolling?

Edit: binnners put it better than me 😀

Clearly, Higgins giving up his half bar will do virtually nothing to improve nationwide level-crossing safety, let alone give us a functioning network.

I’ve no torch to carry for CallMeDave, never have. The nation is sinking into a swamp of empty, meaningless gestures from all political persuasions with no attempt from those who could be doing it, to offer any meaningful solutions for the long-term.

Allester Heath is one of my favourite provocative commentators. He says little that I find myself disagreeing with.

I’m not “angry” about it, mind. 🙂

The nation is sinking into a swamp of empty, meaningless gestures from all political persuasions

Sinking? Politics has been about meaningless populist gestures for decades, off and on. It’s the major downside of democracy innit.

D’you know, I think you’ve interfaced the nailhead with the hammer there, mol… 😆

Would this be the same Allister Heath who is in favour of taking away Fred Goodwin’s knighthood?

http://www.cityam.com/latest-news/allister-heath/mr-goodwin-deserved-lose-his-title

Far more of a meaningless gesture as it makes no practical difference to anything.

Even if in practical terms taking away Network Rail executive bonuses might not achieve much, at least it shows there is strong public feeling about unjustifiable executive pay.

D’you know, I think you’ve interfaced the nailhead with the hammer there, mol…

Democracy ain’t perfect.. it relies on the electorate to make good decisions. And to get that to happen people need to be educated and informed. So once again the bottom line is education.

In almost every problem faced today the bottom line is EDUCATION of one form or another. It’s by far and away the most important thing in life. And yet it hardly gets talked about 🙁

Far more of a meaningless gesture as it makes no practical difference to anything.

I’m not sure right-wing morons are renowned for their logic

Indeed zokes:

Right-wingers are less intelligent than left wingers, says study

It must be true because it’s in the Daily Mail.

When the Daily Mail calls rightwingers stupid, the result is dumbogeddon

a chimps’ tea party of the damned

Do left-wing morons have logic, I wonder…

Do left-wing morons have logic, I wonder…

Given my job, i’m pretty sure having a grasp of logic is a prerequisite, and I’d describe myself as left-wing. You could call me a moron, but you’d be wrong.

If we don’t stop navel-gazing we’ll be speaking Chinese…

The main threat to our current levels of wealth (relative to the rest of the world) is that the poorer countries have everything to gain, and we have it all to lose.

Shouting at rich people/’benefit scroungers’ and politicians isn’t going to save us…

Shouting at rich people/’benefit scroungers’ and politicians isn’t going to save us…

Well actually nothing will. Europe is entering a period of irreversible decline. There is no logical reason why Europe should be disproportionately wealthy – it’s an overcrowded bit of the planet with very little in terms of natural resources. The only reason it has been fabulously wealthy in recent history is directly due to the industrial revolution which allowed it to build wealth based on manufacturing. That advantage is now fast disappearing and is in the process of being obliterated. New areas of the world will soon have exactly the same manufacturing capabilities with the added advantages of available natural resources. Europe is still relatively prosperous due to the accumulative wealth from its manufacturing past, but that wealth is now moving away from Europe to new areas of the world, and nothing can stop it. In the not too distant future Europe will have become a relatively poor part of the world – with no natural resources and a falling and aging population. There is absolutely no logical reason why it should be otherwise.

If we don’t stop navel-gazing we’ll be speaking Chinese…

If more British people spoke Chinese, the UK would be better-placed for the next twenty years.

it’s an overcrowded bit of the planet with very little in terms of natural resources.

Woah there!!! …. I think you’re forgetting the ‘Arc of Prosperity’ aren’t you? Surely you can think of one Golden Oasis? Maybe a soon to be independent state within Europe, with a modest population and oil wealth 😉