Another one bites the dust – Mercian Cycles

From above…’ A Superlight in 835, but with thru axles, an internal rear brake, no other braze on’s (electric only) would have been 👌’

Maybe.  But did/would Mercian make such a thing? They certainly didn’t advertise it, and someone else will make it just as well…

I think that is the point.

You would really struggle to buy a modern Mercian which means you end up going somewhere else.

I agree with the sentiment though, they didn’t move with technology. I can’t see any reason why they couldn’t build all the same bikes with thru axles, disk brakes and electric shifting.

You reach a point though where the people that want to buy a Mercian (lugged steel frame, classic/traditional lines) are buying it because they don’t want modern kit – they’re buying a sort of new version of the bike that they grew up with.

And Mercian are known for that classic traditional lugged look so to start building modern bikes with thru axles, disc mounts etc is against all their brand ethos, their frame building experience and their market.

The group of people that actually want a modern version of a classic is tiny anyway and certainly not getting any bigger. It’s ultimately a pretty dead end path…

Maybe.  But did/would Mercian make such a thing? They certainly didn’t advertise it, and someone else will make it just as well…

But then it wouldn’t be a Mercian.

I’m not sure if there’s anything that would preclude them having some 12mm lugged dropouts made (3D printed?)   The rest of my Wishlist was pretty much just to leave off the downtube bosses and BB cable guides.

and someone else will make it just as well…

I don’t think you’re quite appreciating what Merican did, they weren’t just soldering tubes together to your preferred geometry.  They were genuinely art.

Mercian

Those lugs are hand cut from blanks, they’re not available like that from a catalogue in Tiawan for 50p per box of 100 more than plain ones. They’re the result of someone sitting in a workshop for hours individually cutting and filing each one of them.

For comparison, Brian Rourke is a very well regarded framebuilder, and his frames may well ride indistinguishably, but :

I doubt it would offend their user base to offer a modern frame. It is / was a custom frame builder, if you can’t get what you want then that’s kind of defeating the point.

Bear in mind that Trek started out making cheap tig welded steel frames. As did Specialized.

They both evolved to make what they make today.

Evolve or die seems to be the mantra is the mass market.

And if you are going to be niche rather than mass, make the niche big enough to support your business. I guess the niche for Mercian’s products was just too small for them to make a living from.

They both evolved to make what they make today.

Which for the most part is cheap, TIG welded aluminium frames and cheap carbon. With fancy paint and a massive marketing budget…

Much like the rest of the market.

I agree with the sentiment though, they didn’t move with technology. I can’t see any reason why they couldn’t build all the same bikes with thru axles, disk brakes and electric shifting.

I’m going to agree with this (from my own point of view, not claiming to speak for everyone).

If someone liked the “clean classic lines” of a double diamond frame in “square” geometry but wanted and could afford to spend a fortune on it; why wouldn’t they make a modern interpretation of it. A wireless and disc brake (with sensible rim depth) would look amazing. It would retain the steel feel for both comfort and cafe stop one upmanship, but be built with the best of modern componentry.

and for those who want a fully period correct 70’s bike with tiny tyres, downtube shifters and cable birdsnests – the last 15-20 years has provided us with forums and ebay and so on so you can go and buy a genuine 70’s bike that will be both “more authentic” and cheaper.

Sad to see another one go but it’s not entirely unexpected.

It can’t have been unexpected for the owners or workers either. One would hope they’d seen it coming and baled out gracefully.

“Maybe. But did/would Mercian make such a thing? They certainly didn’t advertise it, and someone else will make it just as well…”

Erm yes, yes they did, if you asked. They didn’t *advertise* at all really, but info on their models was on their website, and as a bespoke custom builder it’s very much a case of you speak to them about what you want.

Pro Lugless 44

Most of my riding is on a (fairly plain) 853 steel frame with long-drop calipers and indexed down tube shifters. While my aero carbon bike with deep rims is great on chain gangs, fast rides, and for chasing Strava segments; people are really missing out if that kind of road bike is all they ride. We also buy too many cheap mass-produced things and replace them too often. I think it’s a real shame if Mercian is gone, but also sadly par for our financialised deindustrialised commoditised times.

So they did produce some more modern bikes… Well that’s kinda shut me down.

I guess if lack of sales was the issue then it’s mainly a marketing thing because clearly quite a few people had no idea.

I’m just going to say that they don’t appeal to me aesthetically, so I’d never even consider one. At age 65, I’d have thought I might their target demographic but I guess that I came to cycling too late in life for them to appeal in a “misty memory” way either.

At age 65, I’d have thought I might their target demographic but I guess that I came to cycling too late in life for them to appeal in a “misty memory” way either.

thats an interesting add on to my previous comment. someone fawning over a 70s/80s roadie was probably there and into them the first time around. The same aesthetic probably went back to the 60’s, maybe 50’s. so from the 1950’s onwards theres been a consistent stream of people wanting and liking lugged “classic” road bikes.

Until recently, where the market is people who have wanted one for 3+ decades and somehow not yet bought one.

So they did produce some more modern bikes

Yes, as I was referring to on page 1 (the lugless frame)- it is £3,000 for the frameset though and that opens up a lot of other choices.

thats an interesting add on to my previous comment. someone fawning over a 70s/80s roadie was probably there and into them the first time around. The same aesthetic probably went back to the 60’s, maybe 50’s. so from the 1950’s onwards theres been a consistent stream of people wanting and liking lugged “classic” road bikes.

That’s basically the summary of nostalgia. The reason there’s still a significant following for 90’s “retro” MTBs is because many of us on here now are the age where that’s when we got into riding, we saw the exotica but could never afford it cos we were all skint teenagers. Now we’re in our 40’s / 50’s and looking back on the things we wanted back then but could never own, we (well, some of us) now have the spare cash, time and desire to own them.

Thing is, most people will admit that modern MTBs are way better than anything we were riding around on in the 90’s but roadies seem a lot more (small c) conservative and will often hark back to the Good Old Days of simplicity and rim brakes. Although there’s a very limited number of people who’ll buy that sort of nostalgia brand new.

Ironic correction: Specialized started with lugged frames 🙂

Not sure about buying a new retro bike, but just renovated a 1982 steel roadie and can’t believe how good it feels to ride.

Primative DuraAce brakes and downtube shifters take some getting used to though!

The reason there’s still a significant following for 90’s “retro” MTBs is because many of us on here now are the age where that’s when we got into riding,

Tick.  Just bought a 1996 MTB a few weeks ago and loving it.  There is no challenging riding where I live so a 90’s rigid MTB is still good to ride and while I readily admit a modern MTB is better in a lot of ways I actually prefer the old geometry where position is similar to a road bike along with quicker feeling handling.

With road bikes I am not so sure about the differences.  I ride track bikes more than road but they have still changed and my current bike is a 5.9kg Carbon framed, carbon rimmed, tubeless tyred bike and it feels no nicer to ride than the 1971 Mercian 531c track bike I had many years ago (the Mercian was actually more comfortable but then a carbon track bike is hardly aiming for comfort)

But as stated previously, while I actually like the Lugless/Lugless 44 I doubt I would ever buy one and would choose something else for that price.

Thing is, most people will admit that modern MTBs are way better than anything we were riding around on in the 90’s but roadies seem a lot more (small c) conservative and will often hark back to the Good Old Days of simplicity and rim brakes.

Except for the sort of road riding that most enthusiasts/likely Mercian customers do, rim brakes and quill stems work far better than the rider is likely able to push them.

Old mountain bikes were shit. You’d have to go back to the era of unindexed downtube shifting and long drop centrepull brakes to find a road bike that bad. And most of the old guys i raced with in the 80’s and 90’s were all over STI and Ergopower as soon as it became reliable. So that’s something most of them would probably retrofit those anyway.

Most of my steel roadies eventually broke or got sold. I’ve got one left, a very early 90s Columbus Max with masses of pedal overlap and no room for anything beyond 23mm tyres. It’s heavy, quite harsh for a steel bike, silent, the brakes are shit especially in the wet, and it’s every bit as stiff as a modern bike. It’s almost worthless. I’m not that nostagic about it apart from the association with the races I did on it.

A bike I am nostalgic about is my lugged carbon 1997 Tour edition Look Once #284 on tubs. I still ride it as much as my current disc-braked tubeless Giant TCR. The Giant is noisy and harsh. Getting back on the Look I marvel at the comfort and silence. It handles great and goes up hill just as well as the Giant with a click rather than a clang when I change gear. It loses out on descent due the brakes and on the flat where the aero wheels on the Giant make a difference.

Old steel bikes, no ta.

I always used a down tube shifter for the front mech so I could use a double or triple chainset depending on the number and gradient of climbs

I had a 1983 Gios Aerodynamic until a few years ago – rode L’Eroica and RetroRonde on it a few times. Enough clearance to run 32mm file treaded tubs and loved the way the bike handled, but no thanks to the skinny, deep drop bars, awful brakes and absolute purgatory of Detto Pietro shoes, toe clips and straps. I used to drop into the Mercian shop when I was working nearby, about 20 years ago and it felt old-fashioned then and I imagine little changed since. There’s still a market for old style randonneur style steel frames with a modern twist – look at Velo Orange

Hands up who’s been looking at Mercians on eBay?

This one is bonkers in a good way: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/276471103906

The trouble with custom built lugged steel frames is the amount of hand labour that goes into them, so they’re going to be expensive.

And then there’s the simple fact that if you already own a quality lugged steel frame that you may have picked up secondhand for £100, then you’re just a paintjob away from something as good as a brandnew one. And right now the Baby Boomers are dying off, so there’s stashes of lugged frames coming on the market as their ignorant descendants haul them off to the dump, charity shop, or possibly eBay. (That’s the fate I expect for my collection 🙂 )

period correct 80s Raleigh Bananas

clubmate is selling his Ti Raleigh as he’s not riding it. He even has the kit to match. 56 if anyone is interested.

Just had my TT frame refurbished by Argos Cycles. its made their insta feed. It wasn’t cheap. You can say what you want about modern bikes, but steel is just wonderful. Sad to see Mercian go, but I’m more of a Rourke rider.

https://www.instagram.com/p/C7WN92BMwf4/?igsh=ZzhsazRhdzQwMzVz

Been reading through the comments on here and on other forums since Mercian’s demise. There are some very interesting observations.

I think Mercian did build frames for modern components.  However modern components do add challenges to traditional lugged construction.  Thru axle dropouts are much more difficult to get in alignment and disc brakes mounts also require much more careful alignment.

Most of these challenges could be overcome with some clever design but as is often the case most framebuilders just select from the available parts.  Most of these were either designed pre discs and thru axles or for tig welding.  So when you adapt thru axle dropouts to a lugged steel frame they often look clunky and detract from the classic beauty of a lugged steel frame.

You can of course spend time adapting what is available to make it look neat.  But that takes time and can be the difference between making money on a frame or not.  Its hardly surprising that many steel framebuilders are choosing to tig weld more frames as it cuts the build time down and makes them more economical.

I have a vested interest in traditional lugged framebuilding and they only way I can see it surviving is if a builder invests money in developing some new parts which keep the aesthetic, keep the build time reasonable and embrace the latest components for those who want them.  Otherwise you might as well buy a vintage frame and adapt is (very easily) to a QR and rim brake groupset.

Just my 2p worth.

Ellis Briggs

And then there’s the simple fact that if you already own a quality lugged steel frame that you may have picked up secondhand for £100,

True in my case. I picked up a 531 Thorn twenty years ago for £75 and am still riding it thousands of miles later. It’s built with modern components but I still have that wonderful ride quality.

Spent a fortune having it refurbished by Argos last year, maybe that’s where the money is.

There’s a short write-up on the BBC News website – https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ck7712w87lro

Those lugs are hand cut from blanks, they’re not available like that from a catalogue in Tiawan for 50p per box of 100 more than plain ones. They’re the result of someone sitting in a workshop for hours individually cutting and filing each one of them.

A lesson in “just because you can, doesn’t mean you should”. I have always thought Mercians (and anything with nervex lugs etc.) looked a bit gopping, and your example does naught to dissuade me

looked a bit gopping, and your example

If you look at the pictures of my TT frame, you’ll see nothing but smooth fillet braising. That’s not quick either as it takes a long time to smooth down the joints to carbon-like smoothness. None of those gopping alloy welds. Only Moots do welding properly.

Yeah loads of ways of stamping your own style on a bike frame.

I quite liked some of the “semi lugged” fillet brazed head tubes the likes of feather did.

At the end of the day, you have to make things that people want to buy.

True in my case. I picked up a 531 Thorn twenty years ago for £75 and am still riding it thousands of miles later.

Have you cut the steerer yet?

True in my case. I picked up a 531 Thorn twenty years ago for £75 and am still riding it thousands of miles later. It’s built with modern components but I still have that wonderful ride quality.

Same, sort of, my 853 is 1997 vintage and currently built up with a mixture of 6800 and 8000 mechanical groupsets (was originally on 6500/Dura-ace). Rides much nicer than my carbon with Di2 and discs, even though it’s probably slower. Has toe overlap and you can *just* get a 25 in there.

My carbon has toe overlap too, has that ever been an issue for anyone? Other than deliberately making it a problem?

My carbon has toe overlap too, has that ever been an issue for anyone? Other than deliberately making it a problem?

It can be riding fixed but you get used to it. On a road bike its just a non issue. The solution is more leaning.

I’ve two handbuilt steel bikes from the early 90’s – a Terry Dolan built Ribble 653, and a totally custom built Frank Herety Columbus SLX.  The market was starting to contract even in the 90’s for custom built bikes, and I don’t think Frank did more than a few hundred frames – mine is 141. He stopped as the fumes from braising affected his health. The SLX frame cost me £450 back in 1990 – same price as a Colnago (effectively the same tubes but I went UK built as I was putting brand new 8 speed Dura Ace on it – can’t be having Shimano on a Colnago).

I’m surprised Mercian lasted so long TBH.  A custom frame is something else to ride though, it’s like a magic carpet.

It can be riding fixed but you get used to it.

I’ve done many a winter in my teens/early 20’s on fixed, with guards too. And raced track, Saffron Lane, Quibel Park Harvey Hadden, Halesowen… Still never found it an issue!

My carbon has toe overlap too, has that ever been an issue for anyone? Other than deliberately making it a problem?

Some people seem to have more issues than others. My track bike obviously has considerable overlap, my fixie I can kick the guards, road (fairly aggressive if old-school racing geo) bike I scuff the tyres with my toes.

But only in slow speed, trying to do a U-turn on a single lane road sort of stuff. Day to day I’ve never had a problem, and my commute goes over a zig-zaged pedestrians bridge up over the motorway.

Thing is, most people will admit that modern MTBs are way better than anything we were riding around on in the 90’s but roadies seem a lot more (small c) conservative and will often hark back to the Good Old Days of simplicity and rim brakes.

Depends where you look, and there’s also I think a tendency among roadies to buy more expensive bikes less often.  The club I ride with (apparently, I just joined it based on geographical proximity) has a reputation for being fast / racing orientated, but on normal club rides there’s a fairly even split of bikes from 1-10 years old (mines now the exception at 20 😂). At most only ~20% probably have a bike that looks “new” (i.e. might be a few year sold but still a current 12speed group set). But by the same token there’s no Sora/Tiagra, most people are riding round on 105 or Ultegra.

Whereas off-road there’s loads of Deore and GX, but you see far fewer 10+ year old bikes.

Geometry has moved with the times too.  Racy bikes are now ~20mm longer than the old square frames (closer to what you’d previously have raced at a velodrome) which suits me even as a casual rider as I’ve got average length legs and my heights all in the torso.  So I either needed a sloping frame which ended up looking a bit odd. Or have relatively little seatpost showing, especially with the trend for taller headtubes meaning a flat top tube left me looking like I’d borrowed my older bothers bike.

I fully appreciate that it’s not for everyone,but I can say,hand on heart,that having a steel frame built to my spec,was one of the best things I have ever done.The whole process from start to finish was a lovely thing.Of all my bikes,it’s still the one I ride the most.

I’ve done many a winter in my teens/early 20’s on fixed, with guards too. And raced track, Saffron Lane, Quibel Park Harvey Hadden, Halesowen… Still never found it an issue!

Yeah but the pedals going round mean that for some people particularly on small bikes there is a very real interface on very slow sharp turns. On a freewheel it’s a non issue.