Reading that back seems a bit anti-dog, which wasn't my intention. I like dogs, I just wish that some owners had a bit more common sense about them.

I once chopped the head off a poodle with my 203mm rotor of my gnarly Intense Downhill Mountain Bike. It tried to bite my 8 inches of travel right off and I wasn't going to stand for it. I tried to shout it down but it just tried to lap up my headset grease.

I gave the owner a piece of my mind and then pulled a massive endo in his face – he won't be letting his dog off the leash again, let me tell you.

Cougar – Couldn't agree more. If my dog was a git he would have a much shorter leash.

Tootall, I was intrigued by you saying that if you saw a dog of lead you put yours on. With mine in those circumstances I leave her off lead. In fact on some occasions if she's on the lead and I see a dog that looks like it might be a bit agro off lead I'll let her off too. She wont fight unless cornered and can out run most dogs easily, then I saw yours was a Rottie, is it because yours will get into scraps?

I will let him run up to anyone he chooses.

Unfortunately, that is where the arrogance lies. We have never met, yet you see fit to let your dog run up on me? I don't want that as the odds are the dog is not under control.

I have also refined over the years a load of suitably reassuring and humourous lines to put people at ease.

Yeah – and I've had many 'oh, he doesn't bite' and 'of course he is under control' followed by 'he's never done that before' and 'you scared him' and 'your dog started it'. Again – I've had too many light-hearted buffoons make jokes whilst their darling pooch was lunging at my ankle or dog. Being witty does not detract from a loose dog running up on me.

Cougar

Enough of that, you're ruining this thread by posting common sense 🙄

is it because yours will get into scraps?

No – it is because other dogs have had a go at him – and of those that do, the majority have been off-leash and out of control. The reputation of the rottie is such that I am aware of how others see him, so I do the decent thing and pop the leash on. If they then decide they want to meet the dog, they can initiate it and we properly introduce – not force it upon them. I have done that with every dog because my father taught me to respect others and do this – the rottie amplifies this so it makes sense.

When I am walking the dog, I will let him run up to anyone he chooses, because I trust him

And therein lies the problem. The perception someone has of a dog running up to them and someone else saying "Hello," as they pass is totally different. Some people have had bad experiences with dogs and whilst you may think your dog will not act out of character you don't know how the other person will react in the same way that they don't knowwhat your dog's intentions are.

Okay guys, I understand that you don't know how my dog will behave. In all fairness you do not know how I will behave. Or other drivers on the road, or milkmen, or cats, or anything in fact. We just have to go on experience.

I am not sure if you are suggesting I should stop my dog doing what he does naturally and very charmingly because you have had a bad experience of dogs.

I also stated above that if I sense that someone doesn't like dogs or is afraid that I will call him back. This very rarely happens because he has developed an instinct for this himself and is usually pretty spot on. Can we not take this on a case by case basis and just get on with it? Do you wish to impose your will on me because you are incapable of discerning one dog from another? What is the solution?

What is the solution?

Ignore the asshats and carry on as you are as it sounds fine to me. I'm about to do exactly that with these two 8)

Is anybody else seeing the googlead on the right with the snarling dog? 😕

We all have basic human rights

That's a big part of the problem here – there are no such things as human rights which have an objective basis, however much the rhetoric which underpins them would like to suggest. They are in fact entirely subjective and socially negotiated – so if someone wants the right to be undisturbed by dogs, they need to make a case for it being socially good, rather than implying that the universe enshrines it as their right.

Just as an aside, I don't let my dogs run up to people, especially small kids – boisterous collies and toddlers don't mix very well.

I agree with what you are saying Cougar, except:

touch my dog and you'll get a slap

Which isn't exactly what I said, is it? To repeat again that was directed at, and only at, Zulu gangbanger. A threat was made against dogs, I just wanted to know how s/he would feel if I gave his/her kids a slap for not being under control and bothering my dog.

Not the same thing really?

As regards kicking a dog – it shouldn't have to come to that. A responsible dog owner will have his/her dog under control at all times. If one is off the lead and comes near my kids at pace (which does happen occasionally), then I reserve the right to kick it away. If the owner wants to kick me for doing so then that's a bridge I'm willing to cross.

Having said that, I actually like dogs (well behaved ones). Never want to own one however, because I don't have the lifestyle to look after them properly and hate dog poop. Also, if a dog owner gets fed up with my kids running around in restaurants, they would be correct to moan as that too is pretty unreasonable.

I'd like to think most people understand (macho posturing aside) that there is a difference between kicking/slapping a dog and a child…

Although these discussions are always heated, there isn't much between the arguments – sensible/considerate dog owners are rarely a menace. However, the completely irrational defence that "my dog could never be involved" in a situation like the OP mentions is ludicrous.

Do you wish to impose your will on me because you are incapable of discerning one dog from another?

Nobody wants to impose anything on you, they just don't want you imposing your dog on them. And whether they are 'capable' of discerning one dog from another is irrelevant- you shouldn't be putting them in that situation. Common courtesy.

A responsible dog owner will have his/her dog under control at all times.

impossible I would say, a responsible dog owner will keep the dog away from people but if something goes wrong for any reason they will have had the dog socialized to an extent they at least dont have to worry about an attack. My dog's now 18 months old, she's pretty good, comes when called most of the time and certainly doesnt jump up at people or run up to them (unless they call her) but I was only able to train her like this because I accepted that a few errors would occur when she's young like the time she ran up to the women walking along waving a stick about, she screamed and then tried to run off, baby Lurcher in hot pursuit of the stick still in her hand. Not good and I felt terrible but it was all a learning experience for the dog, not all people waving sticks want to play. It was also a case where a bit of knowledge from the stick waver would have been good for her. If your terrified of dogs even puppies dont walk around a park waving sticks about.

So you find it impossible to keep your dog under control at all times?

People shouldn't wave sticks in public lest they get attacked by a dog?

Not making a good case for responsible dog ownership there buddy.

So you find it impossible to keep your dog under control at all times?

is it possible to keep any living thing under control at all times?

People shouldn't wave sticks in public lest they get attacked by a dog?

is hardly what I wrote and she was a 15 week old puppy at the time.

not sure this running up to you should induce proper full on screaming.

anagallis_arvensis – Member
Tootall, I was intrigued by you saying that if you saw a dog of lead you put yours on. With mine in those circumstances I leave her off lead. In fact on some occasions if she's on the lead and I see a dog that looks like it might be a bit agro off lead I'll let her off too. She wont fight unless cornered and can out run most dogs easily, then I saw yours was a Rottie, is it because yours will get into scraps?

I'm with Tootall on this one, Molly goes on her lead if she is approached or in the vicinity of any other dogs. I get fed up with her being pestered by the "oh, he's OK" brigade, fine, Molly is OK too, but she's a staffie, so if your dog pisses her off enough and she goes for it, she is likely to win, guess who will be seen to be the baddy? So rather than let a stupid situation like that occur I'd rather make sure it didn't. BTW, I do have a number 1 haircut to disguise some bloody horrible scars on my head, oddly having a lot of scars on the scalp doesn't look as bad with almost zero hair! Go-on, stereotype me!

I'm with Tootall on this one, Molly goes on her lead if she is approached or in the vicinity of any other dogs. I get fed up with her being pestered by the "oh, he's OK" brigade, fine, Molly is OK too, but she's a staffie, so if your dog pisses her off enough and she goes for it, she is likely to win, guess who will be seen to be the baddy?

makes sense, I suppose I've always had dogs that were runners rather than fighters…

Glad you are able to see it that way, though I might take umbrage at her being called a fighter! I'll accept the use of the phrase in it's historical sense for the breed, and for some of the breed nowadays, but not for Moll as an individual dog.

Rio – Member

"Interesting link – so 18 people have been killed by by cows in 8 years, and the main cause according to the article is provocation by dogs. In this particular case I'd say the problems are firstly the owners, then the dogs, and only finally the cows which are protecting their offspring.

c.f. 5 children killed in the last 5 years by dogs according to a pro-dog web site that seems to have some very sensible views on dog control."

Ask yourself the same question about what triggered the dog attacks. Some are unprovoked, many aren't. I know some people don't like it but the fact is that often being bitten by a dog is very much the equivalent of getting burned because you put your hand in a fire, just like being crushed by a cow is often the equivalent of doing something daft.

Elsewhere in the thread people have said "You don't know a dog will act in extremis". And that's absolutely true, and absolutely irrelevant. You don't muzzle all dogs because of how they might act in extremis, you just don't put them in that situation. Most humans will attack if provoked correctly, you don't treat them all as dangerous because of what they can be provoked into.

"to the idiot who say's Akita's have a decent temperamant."

That would be me. You obviously know ****-all about Akitas but it'd be nice if you at least bothered to find a link that supported your argument, did you even read it yourself before you posted it?

I might take umbrage at her being called a fighter!

what I mean is when push comes to shove a staffie wont run whereas my lurcher will and not much will catch her either!!

I agree with the cow thing being quite funny thing to look at because the vast majority of cows really arent that dangerous (bulls another matter of course) like most dogs. Follow a few simple rules and cows wont hurt you. Well apart from the stupid example that stood on my foot once

the fact is that often being bitten by a dog is very much the equivalent of getting burned because you put your hand in a fire,

I think the difference is that whereas the effect of the flame is simple, known, predictable and consistent, the behaviour of a dog is complex and unpredictable. Some gestures may trigger an attack from some dogs, others may not. Different dogs react differently. It is not reasonable to imagine that a stranger will know the personality of every dog they meet. You may know what spooks your dog. I do not. It represents to me a danger of being bitten which I am unable to judge very accurately. That makes me scared (which itself provokes dogs) and liable to take defensive action that you may not understand or agree with.

I would chop the heads off all dog owners and feed them to their dogs.

Then I'd go dogging on my mountain bicycle.

It is Friday night after all.

DrJ – Member

"I think the difference is that whereas the effect of the flame is simple, known, predictable and consistent, the behaviour of a dog is complex and unpredictable. Some gestures may trigger an attack from some dogs, others may not."

I'm not talking about gestures here, I've only know one kid personally who was attacked by a dog and tbh, if I'd been the dog I'd have bitten him too. Approaching an angry or territorial dog is a good way to get bit, failing to respond to a warning from a dog is another, and quite often with kids its rough handling or other daft behavior. Young kids don't know better of course but just like owners should look out for their dogs, parents should look out for their kids. I've only ever known one person to be badly bitten, it was a fairly young (10 year old) boy and if I'd been the dog, I'd have bitten him too.

Not to say that this is always the case of course- but people are quick to make excuses when it suits them while depicting other situations as black and white. Anyone got any idea how many of the fatal dog attacks was 100% "one sided"?

Ask yourself the same question about what triggered the dog attacks. Some are unprovoked, many aren't.

They're all provoked in some way; animals rarely act on a whim. However, it's unreasonable to expect everyone to know what provokes a particular dog to attack. On one memorable occasion I was accused by a dog owner of provoking his dog to bite me on the leg because I didn't stop running in its presence, and it always liked to attack runners (silly me for not realising that). Given that, it's perfectly reasonable for me to regard all dogs as dangerous animals.

At the end of the day it comes down to control; if you don't know what provokes your dog, don't take it out in public unless its on a lead. And I suspect very few dog owners know what would actually provoke their dog.

I'd gesture to the dog, then when it came up to me, just chop its head off with my gnarly hope mini mono rotor.

Then I'd learn to keep my dog/kids on a leash (yes, kids, on those daft harness things) and realise I'm not the centre of the earth, nor is my kid/dog and just learn to be courteous.

Can't we all just get along?

Can't we all just get along?

New to this forum?

Haha, yeah, how could you guess? It's all very serious isn't it? Plus no-one seems to like mountain bikes… 😆

I've no idea how you control the situation but any dog that looks like a rottweiler / ___ bull terrier should be confiscated on sight and killed regardless of the owner

Pr1ck. You should've stopped after "I've no idea" because you clearly haven't.

It's all very serious isn't it?

Only when discussing dogs, politics or tyres. 🙂

Anyone who looks like a Rottweiler or ___bull terrier should be chopped up and turned into dog food. In my opinion. IMHO to all those people who don't read words. Is it 'Humble' or 'Honest', I get confused easily?

What's the best Conservative tyre to run dogs over with?

Approaching an angry or territorial dog is a good way to get bit, failing to respond to a warning from a dog is another,

How am I supposed to recognise that? And if hte dog thinks that "its territory extends onto the public footpath?

and quite often with kids its rough handling or other daft behavior. Young kids don't know better of course but just like owners should look out for their dogs, parents should look out for their kids. I've only ever known one person to be badly bitten, it was a fairly young (10 year old) boy and if I'd been the dog, I'd have bitten him too.

So if a child is annoying, it's OK for them to be assaulted by a dog?

I had resisted the TJ-esque approach of quoting the law of the land – party because I assumed that dog owners would have at least an awareness. Quite a few on here evidently don't…..

Govt website explaining dog control

It is an offence to allow a dog of any type or breed to be dangerously out of control.

What is 'out of control'?

Your dog is dangerously out of control if it:

* injures a person, or
* behaves in a way that makes a person worried that it might injure them – even if it's the dog owner's own home or garden.

A court could judge that your dog is dangerously out of control if:

* it injures another person's animal
* the owner of the animal thinks they could be injured if they tried to stop your dog attacking their animal

Anyone can report a dog and their owner to the police.

If you are found guilty of having a dog that's out of control you may face a fine of up to £1000 and/or imprisonment. You may also not be allowed to own a dog in the future.

So, whether your dog is 'out of control' isn't actually your perception – it is that of those around you. You will, of course, argue the law is an ass. However, it is the law and not really your call to make. Do the right thing and control your dog.

Plus no-one seems to like mountain bikes..

Oh yes! clearly new to the forum, mountain bike ffs!!!!???****!

I've done some reading since yesterday to try and understand, what I consider to have been a gross over reaction on the part of many, and the insults just confirm the inability to argue logically, regarding the slapping of I'm scared of Zulu's children.
Slapping IS an offence and IS assault, but a slap to give a child a warning is not the same as a slap to batter a child, OK. A slap which would leave a lasting mark or draw blood is different from a slap to shock the child. And I think that the Police would NOT act in the scenario I was talking about, so technically an offence, but not worth bothering with. A bit like doing 32mph in a 30mph zone and we all know how people like to break this law and get away without paying the fine or getting the points, or the how do I get away without paying this fine brigade??

I have also read that pushing someone is assault, rush hour on the Underground must be a lawyers dream. 🙄

As a child I received many slaps from teachers, as did others, NOT a problem.

I also know that teachers are restricted in what they can do with and to children. A falling child can not be caught or saved by a teacher just in case they touch the child inappropriately. In an attempt to stop a girl falling you try to catch her, one hand grabs her shoulder the other grabbs the breast area. One face plant and huge dental bill saved and one teacher put on the sex offenders list!!!

Young boy cuts himself on the upper thigh and is bleeding heavily, teacher must find an accomanying adult before applying dressing to act as a witness so as to avoid any accusations from the parents.

Thank you for saving my little Jeremy/Harriet, NO! How much can we get for suing the L.A.? YES! CRAZY!

And I think that has been demonstrated here, I said "slap" and you saw "batter" and court case money and I really don't think you can see a relationship between a failure in disciplining children and the social problems in the UK.

The End.

When I approach people I call my dog to heel, if there are small or noisy children waving sticks she goes on the lead. She doesn't chase joggers, cyclists, old people, fat people or any other people. As a dog owner I'm not fussed about being approached by friendly dogs, but appreciate many people don't want this and they are entitled not to be bothered, no matter how friendly.

As I have posted previously I used to be very frightened of dogs, but since having my own puppy it has transformed my life. Having a dog means you spend lot's of time exposed to other dogs and I now realise it was ignorance which caused my fear. On occasion I will be wary of a dog, but only when the dog is behaving aggresively. On approaching an unknown dog mine goes on the lead, this is to put others at ease and because I don't know how the other dog will behave. If the other dog is off lead and not showing any warning signs I will leave mine off lead. They will then say hello to each other, maybe play or maybe just ignore each other.

My dog is a mastiff cross and people are sometimes wary, but usually copmplement me on my beautiful dog. Given my dogs and maybe my own appearence I always make a point of smiling and saying hello to pretty much everyone we pass. It is amazing the difference it makes, but I often find myself chatting to little old ladies for ages when they realise I'm not a dog wielding mugger.

So.. keep your dogs under control, pick up after them, say hello to people, slow down on your bike when you pass, say thankyou and don't let you child poke my dog with a stick.

DrJ – Member

"So if a child is annoying, it's OK for them to be assaulted by a dog?"

Yeah, that's exactly what I said 🙄 If a child is allowed to run into traffic you don't blame the driver that hits them. If a child is allowed to mistreat or provoke a dog, you blame the dog. Apparently.

I wonder how many of the people who'd call for more bans and routine muzzling have used the words "nany state" in the past? To me it's all part of the psychosis of expecting perfect safety, and of parents who expect their kids to be protected from all harm whether they can be bothered to do that themselves or not, and who want the government to legislate away all risks for them. The incidence of serious dog attacks as we've shown up the page is low (despite absurd claims to the contrary, we never did heat more about the 250,000 dog bites a year) and the incidence of fatalities though tragic is negligible.