Another Jordan Peterson video for you – speaking at the Oxford Union

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  • Another Jordan Peterson video for you – speaking at the Oxford Union
  • sbob
    Member

    A claim with no evidence offered to support it. Now, who does that remind me of…

    Almost everyone on this thread.

    geetee1972
    Member

    Couldnt you act as man in the middle and give one nice simple example of one of the things he says that you like and why?

    Evweyrhing to do with gender patriarchy post modernism corruption of the social sciences sovereignty of the individual the dangers of identity politics inherent trait characteristics between men and women the importance of individual responsibility the need to ensure we find something constructive for people to do on society especially poor white working class men and boys (but not exclusively them).

    I think it’s time to leave this thread to the fanboi’s circle jerk.

    Premier Icon kimbers
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    JP has the solution to that entire word salad.!

    He truly is the 2nd coming !!

    He’s still chatting shit about lobsters tho

    Premier Icon Drac
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    Premier Icon nickc
    Subscriber

    post modernism corruption of the social sciences

    JP’s qualifications are all in “dodgy post modernist pseudo-social sciences” . So essentially, are you suggesting that he’s saying all those other pseudo scientists are making shit up, apart from him? (despite the volumes of evidence that he’s just as bad as all the other peddlers of dodgy shite)

    Seems legit

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    So essentially, are you suggesting that he’s saying all those other pseudo scientists are making shit up, apart from him?

    You may remember this from the Brexit times

    These are not the experts we are looking for, this new expert who is an anti expert is the expert we should listen to…

    Premier Icon somafunk
    Subscriber

    Evweyrhing to do with gender patriarchy post modernism corruption of the social sciences sovereignty of the individual the dangers of identity politics inherent trait characteristics between men and women the importance of individual responsibility the need to ensure we find something constructive for people to do on society especially poor white working class men and boys (but not exclusively them).

    ffs…..if that is all it takes to be hailed as a solution to the male identity crisis then I’m gonna be lauded as the saving grace of masculinity…..you wanna hear my soliloquy on the modern male condition ?……

    Grow a set of balls and don’t be a dick

    There you go……..simple 👍….job done….let’s go down the pub🥃

    Premier Icon ransos
    Subscriber

    So various claims are made with no evidence offered (and the evidence that is turns out to be false) and now you want to be supplied with your own material? Priceless!

    Thank you for proving my point.

    Premier Icon ransos
    Subscriber

    People really need to wake up and get a grip of themselves.

    I reckon his supporters have no problem with getting a grip.

    sbob
    Member

    you’re [geetee is] so easily duped

    I’m not concerned about you, just a little saddened.

    He’s a misogynist.

    Unthinking acceptance is a hallmark of his followers.

    he’s deliberately divisive

    Sorry ransos, which evidence backed nugget of wisdom from the above did I unwittingly help you prove?

    Is that a whiff of hypocrisy I can detect…?

    sbob
    Member

    I reckon his supporters have no problem with getting a grip.

    Classy!

    (I believe that’s STW’s pre-approved reply to such posts)

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    it is sbob, though it still doesn’t add much to your contribution, so far it seems you just want to complain about other people….

    sbob
    Member

    What I would like is for people to back up their claims against Peterson, otherwise it just looks like a pack of baseless **** bullying the OP.

    Premier Icon ransos
    Subscriber

    Sorry ransos, which evidence backed nugget of wisdom from the above did I unwittingly help you prove?

    That you’re all mouth and no trousers.

    What I would like is for people to back up their claims against Peterson, otherwise it just looks like a pack of baseless **** bullying the OP.

    It is up to Peterson and his supporters to substantiate his claims. Otherwise they look like a pack of whiny cockbags.

    AdamW
    Member

    Apart from his lectures being somewhat vague and unscientific, here’s a load for you to be getting on with.  Knock yourself out.

    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Jordan_Peterson#Pseudoscience

    He talks a lot about stuff he really doesn’t know, perhaps sticking to his subject would be best.  If he was that good a university lecturer then he should at least be able to get his views across clearly.  As the link says “His statements are notoriously incoherent and ambiguous, which allows him to handwave criticism as mere misrepresentations of his views.”

    If that is true then he should go away and write a clear succinct book full of his thoughts which can be examined for truth or not.  But then perhaps the people who give him money may decide not to.

    As for the OP, it appears that every time Peterson does something he’s on here telling us about it.  Perhaps have a thread that you can update as needed when Peterson describes his breakfast or something equally important that we need to know?  Or even better, perhaps leave Peterson in the background and pick one or more of his pronouncements and start a thread on that?  It would then allow us to play the ball and not discuss the strange man himself (“atheism causes baldness”? Oy vey).

    Cult of personality is a very dangerous thing indeed.  Just look at Trump.

    Premier Icon dissonance
    Subscriber

     (but not exclusively them).

    Awesome.

    Now what social sciences in particular do you have in mind and how have they been corrupted?

    For example I am struggling to see how that word salad would impact the study of public finance or information studies. Can you get more specific beyond the lazy boogie man of “social science”?

    As for your interest in supporting working class white men. Isnt that a tad identity politics? Or is it just the right sort of identity?

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    It is up to Peterson and his supporters to substantiate his claims. Otherwise they look like a pack of whiny cockbags.

    Its a fair point JHJ goes to great lengths to provide links to support his arguments and we get to judge them based on that

    getee posts a link to one of petersens word salad lectures & tells us its the answer to everything

    hes yet to explain why lobsters are a good model for humans when it comes to social hierarchy

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    <p class=”css-1xl4flh e2kc3sl0″>Mr. Nestor says he recently wrote a paper on how testosterone levels and sperm count are dropping. He argues sociocultural transformations are probably making men less virile, and Mr. Peterson nods along.</p>
    <p class=”css-1xl4flh e2kc3sl0″>At one point in the discussion, Mr. Peterson, who had been relatively quiet, becomes heated on the topic of women who find marriage oppressive.</p>
    <p class=”css-1xl4flh e2kc3sl0″>“So I don’t know who these people think marriages are oppressing,” he says. “I read Betty Friedan’s book because I was very curious about it, and it’s so whiny, it’s just enough to drive a modern person mad to listen to these suburban housewives from the late ’50s ensconced in their comfortable secure lives complaining about the fact that they’re bored because they don’t have enough opportunity. It’s like, Jesus get a hobby. For Christ’s sake, you — you — ”</p>

    From a follower

    <p class=”css-1xl4flh e2kc3sl0″>Jacob Logan, 18, from Alliston, Ontario, was first in line for Mr. Peterson’s talk on Thursday, May 3 at the Queen Elizabeth Theater. He had arrived 12 hours early, wearing a shirt with lobsters stacked upon each other. He also had 100 name tags to hand out on which he had scrawled the name “Bucko.” It’s a nickname Mr. Peterson sometimes uses for his fans.</p>
    <p class=”css-1xl4flh e2kc3sl0″>“Whenever I listen to him, it’s like he’s telling me something I already knew,” Mr. Logan says. “Learning is remembering.”</p>

    If that doesn’t scream confirmation bias I don’t know what does

    “You’re a divine locus of consciousness,” Mr. Peterson tells the crowd of 1,200 or so people.

    Random word generator

    Happy to lead people along, some spatterings of random common sense with an undercurrent of privileged white man who doesn’t want to accept a re-balancing of the world, of course with diversity we could just let it take it’s course, the people who gain the most from that are those already in power.

    But as this thread proves, there are some who think he tells all the truths and grants revelations (or confirmations) to his followers. Not for the majority it seems.

    I’ve spent enough time reading his crap wrapped up as semi spiritual, life affirming, Rees Mogg rose tinted specs for a simpler time where Men were in charge and women knew their place. Followed by an Ah, you fell into that little trap, what I really meant/emphasised etc etc was something not actually as controversial but hey by accident I got all this publicity.

    AKA Borris, AKA Trump

    sbob
    Member

    That you’re all mouth and no trousers.

    Congratulations on completing your round of “I know you are but what am I”. What are we playing next, hopscotch?

    It is up to Peterson and his supporters to substantiate his claims.

    Yet seemingly not up to his detractors to substantiate theirs? There’s a word for that.

    Otherwise they look like a pack of whiny cockbags.

    Sorry, who does?

    😉

    Think I’ll go and test the Timmy Taylors downstairs.
    xxx

    Premier Icon ransos
    Subscriber

    Yet seemingly not up to his detractors to substantiate theirs? There’s a word for that.

    Tell us what it is, then. Or is that too difficult for you?

    You’d think that someone would’ve fronted up by now. Oh well.

    theboatman
    Member

    Evweyrhing to do with gender patriarchy post modernism corruption of the social sciences sovereignty of the individual the dangers of identity politics inherent trait characteristics between men and women the importance of individual responsibility the need to ensure we find something constructive for people to do on society especially poor white working class men and boys (but not exclusively them).

    sbob
    Member

    Tell us what it is, then. Or is that too difficult for you?

    As if by magic, I already have.

    You’d think that someone would’ve fronted up by now. Oh well.

    You need to calm down old fruit, have a herbal tea.

    Premier Icon Cougar
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    I’ve not listened to a single word this bloke has said, but have been following these threads with interest.  What’s abundantly clear to me solely from people’s reactions is this:

    1) He’s a blatant self-publicist and getting rather rich on the back of it.

    2) He says contentious things which are either self-contradictory or sufficiently vague that listeners on either side of the fence can pick what they want to hear from it, with a healthy dose of confirmation bias, in order to proclaim him as either the messiah of the poor oppressed male or as a mysogynistic asshat.  The truth I expect is, well, as I said in 1), he’ll say anything that will fill theatres and sell books.  See also, Donald Trump and a supporting cast of 2018 politicians.  For all his failings, Trump is a grand master at saying a lot of words and letting people pick the bones out of it, he’ll contradict himself in the same sentence.  People remember what they want to hear and conveniently ignore everything else.

    Am I near the mark here?

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    And with my <mod> hat on for a moment, this is all getting a bit tetchy and personal in the discussions, please play nicely or we’ll take your ball away.

    GT’s politics are somewhat anathemic to mine own, but that doesn’t mean I can give him a kicking for it.  Play the argument, not the man.

    As you were.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    Pretty much bang on with the assessment Cougar, and the Trump comparison stands up

    JP, like trump and other demagogues, says something contentious and controversial, then other people take their words and run with them to justify doing some really nasty, violent and unpleasant shit (see all the incel idiots who worship this clown).

    At which point said demagogues shrug and say ‘hey… nothing to do with me’

    He’s making a fortune by providing a justification to some pretty nasty people for their backward and misogynistic worldview, and looks pretty pleased with himself while doing so.

    And while there are enough gullible, inadequate half-wits around to keep swallowing this shite, the gravy train keeps rolling….

    geetee1972
    Member

    Perhaps you might find some of Peterson’s key arguments more palatabld if they are made for you by Jonathan Pie.

    This clip is exactly the subject that brought Peterson to public attention, when he vehemently opposed Bill C16 and compelled speech.

    Now I am as in favour of trans rights as anyone and vocally outspoken on this subject, but not even my best friend, who is trans, thinks that compelling people to use required pronouns is a good idea, indeed far from it, she believes it’s a travesty to go down that road.

    Anyway, here is the Pie video; let me know what you think.

    https://www.facebook.com/JonathanPieReporter/videos/250528485612785/

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    Now I am as in favour of trans rights as anyone and vocally outspoken on this subject, but not even my best friend, who is trans, thinks that compelling people to use required pronouns is a good idea, indeed far from it, she believes it’s a travesty to go down that road.

    and plenty of people disagree on that one too. Is this the one where he heads off to the slippery slope?

    Perhaps you could address the points made already before trying to convince us all he is just a great guy? Cougar made some above.

    Premier Icon MSP
    Subscriber

    Now I am as in favour of trans rights as anyone and vocally outspoken on this subject

    You are outspoken in your worship of jp, I don’t recall ever seen a statement from you supporting “trans” rights. I wouldn’t classify myself as being outspoken on the subject, but I think I am more active than you in support whenever the subject gets raised on this forum.

    but not even my best friend, who is trans,

    A rather “incredible” call to authority that I frankly just don’t believe. Which IMO is a dishonest argumentative technique you frequently use.

    Premier Icon Northwind
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    <div class=”bbp-reply-author”>

    mikewsmith

    <div class=”bbp-author-role”>

    <div class=””>Subscribe</div>
    <div></div>
    <div class=””>>“Whenever I listen to him, it’s like he’s telling me something I already knew,”</div>

    “So you can say “Oh, I really identify with you. So. Much”

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    Now I am as in favour of trans rights as anyone

    You’ll perhaps forgive me if I’m sceptical.  Particularly of the latter half of that sentence.  Been on many trans rights marches lately?

    compelling people to use required pronouns is a good idea

    Is anyone actually doing that (beyond a vocal and non-representative minority) or is it just a straw man?

    I don’t think that “compelling people to use required pronouns is a good idea” either (not least because the concept gives a certain element of society ammunition).  Rather, people can request how they prefer to be addressed, and the addressee is perfectly at liberty to use whatever terms they choose.  They can choose to respect their choices or decide they’re being a pretentious snowflake and ignore them, whatever.

    Personally I’ll use he / she as requested and try to default to “they” when there’s ambiguity or unknowns, but I draw the line at “zie” because I think it’s an abominable bastardisation of language.  I’m a geek, I like words.

    cheekyboy
    Member

    I know this is a can of worms but which dangerous and prevailing ideas?

    Or is logical reason and accepted thinking in a modern world a counterpoint to his dangerous ideas?

    What is accepted thinking ?

    Just asking.

    Premier Icon ransos
    Subscriber

    You need to calm down old fruit, have a herbal tea.

    If you’re not capable, no worries.

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    You know, I do grow somewhat weary of the “your mum” level of discourse that passes for debate sometimes.  On both sides of the argument, that is.  If you’re not going to engage, you’re just wasting time and pixels.

    Premier Icon ransos
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    You know, I do grow somewhat weary of the “your mum” level of discourse that passes for debate sometimes.  On both sides of the argument, that is.  If you’re not going to engage, you’re just wasting time and pixels.

    I’d like it if one of JP’s admirers would give us a specific claim and its associated evidence to examine. Yet repeated invitations, they have not done so. I’m afraid that attempting to nail jelly to the wall is not a reasonable basis for positive engagement.

    rene59
    Member

    Been on many trans rights marches lately?

    How many attending these marches actually give a shit about trans rights and aren’t just there because it’s the latest ‘scene’?

    theboatman
    Member

    Now I am as in favour of trans rights as anyone

    Wtf does that actually mean? I’m on the committee of a local lgbt organisation that provides support services and campaigns. And I would summise if you got an every man view then that would suggest you are at best indifferent…. and that’s me being very very very optimistic.

    It just makes you sound a bit like him; sounds good, but based in f all.

    Is that your excuse for not going?

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    How many attending these marches actually give a shit about trans rights and aren’t just there because it’s the latest ‘scene’?

    I’ve no idea, why don’t you enlighten us?

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