another cyclist run over

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  • another cyclist run over
  • eyerideit
    Member

    They should ban those F***king things and the divs who drive them.

    Sad, poor woman.

    mrchrispy
    Member

    make them only enter london via certain routes…..routes that take in all the politicians houses/flats. we’ll soon se change then!

    cheers_drive
    Member

    What is it about tipper trucks that makes them more dangerous than other HGVs?
    They appear to be responsible for a high proportion of serious and fatal accidents in London.

    eyerideit
    Member

    What is it about tipper trucks that makes them more dangerous than other HGVs?

    The drivers

    Muke
    Member

    Saw this reported on LFGSS yesterday, seems like there is one every week. 🙁

    Premier Icon ton
    Subscriber

    reading the report, the woman was overtaking the tipper, whilst it was turning left?

    mrmo
    Member

    What is it about tipper trucks that makes them more dangerous than other HGVs?
    They appear to be responsible for a high proportion of serious and fatal accidents in London.

    I have a theory that the problem is that women cyclists are more likely to obey the law and Hence get killed. Look at who is being killed by HGVs in London…

    The problem is that HGVs do have crap sight lines and i think some cyclists whether thinking or not, place themselves in the blindspots. For instance if you use a filter lane to get to an ASL, if your not very careful you can actually put yourself in a blindspot but have done nothing legally wrong, you could say you did what the road signs told you to do.

    I hope she does recover BTW, and certainly not saying it is her fault.

    nick1962
    Member

    In the last pic the driver’s side rear light appears defective on the truck.

    Muke
    Member

    The problem is that HGVs do have crap sight lines and i think some cyclists whether thinking or not, place themselves in the blindspots. For instance if you use a filter lane to get to an ASL, if your not very careful you can actually put yourself in a blindspot but have done nothing legally wrong, you could say you did what the road signs told you to do.

    [video]http://youtu.be/wzL0Kyk4m-8[/video]

    Premier Icon Stoner
    Subscriber

    Maybe time to consider a weight and axle limit during daytime hours. 7.5 tonnes, 3 axles.
    Its the longer, heavier vehicles taking wide lines with lousy visbility that together with some naive road positioning by a significant number of cyclists that’s causes the conflict.

    Remove the opportunity for conflict, reduce the periods of the day when these vehicles and cyclists are vying for the same road space.

    nick1962
    Member

    Large vehicles with blind spots shouldn’t be on the road.It is a completely avoidable accident waiting to happen.

    scaled
    Member

    looks like the turn is too tight for the lorry so he swung out to the right to make the turn.

    Busses do this to me in Manchester a lot of the time, they’re indicating right then swing left to give themselves a bit more room.

    Premier Icon crazy-legs
    Subscriber

    reading the report, the woman was overtaking the tipper, whilst it was turning left?

    She was going straight on and she was on the right hand side of the truck which was turning left but it swung out to make the turn, the right front of the lorry clipped the left rear of her bike and dragged her under. 🙁

    Hope she recovers OK.

    bencooper
    Member

    What is it about tipper trucks that makes them more dangerous than other HGVs?

    Drivers are often paid per load.

    Plus there’s lots of them because of the London building boom.

    As has been observed, it’s amazing how a lorry’s blind spots are almost the exact same shape as the Advanced Stop Line boxes cyclists are supposed to use.

    daytime hours

    Putting all the heavy traffic and deliveries on the roads at night in residential areas, and on roads full of drunk, lightless cyclists etc…..

    Not sure that’s the answer. Sorry. Continued education of all parties using the roads, and prosecution where it is correctly applied.

    It’s not a witch hunt at either end of the road user spectrum. Someone could quite easily put

    They should ban those F***king things and the divs who drive ride them

    for bikes
    or

    They should ban those F***king things and the divs who drive walk in them

    for pedestrians

    And, this;

    The problem is that HGVs do have crap sight lines and i think some cyclists whether thinking or not, place themselves in the blindspots. For instance if you use a filter lane to get to an ASL, if your not very careful you can actually put yourself in a blindspot but have done nothing legally wrong, you could say you did what the road signs told you to do.

    I hope she does recover BTW, and certainly not saying it is her fault.

    (Mods, please feel free to delete above if required. Quoting another poster for emphasis, not insult)

    Premier Icon Stoner
    Subscriber

    why residential areas? Most HGV deliveries will be into CBDs.
    There may well be an increase in deliveries by smaller vehicles during the day perhaps which would not be great admittedly. But education alone isnt going to cut it. HGV drivers will continue to run wide into their blind spots and tourists & novice urban riders will continue to pootle around oblivious to the risks of unfamiliar scenarios.

    Most HGVs are, I bet, supermarket or multi-drop deliveries that could easily be replaced with smaller wagons at a commercial cost. Smaller tipper/grab/concrete/skip handling is readily available, again at a higher cost.

    uselesshippy
    Member

    Tipper trucks are legally classed as site vehicles, so different rules apply to them.
    The main differences are a way higher front bumper, so if one hits you, no chance of being pushed, your going under. No side bars, so if they turn in on you, no getting pushed away, your going under. Massive clearance around spray guards, making it easier to get caught in the wheel.
    Also, as already said, drivers are paid a bonus, which attracts a certain type of driver.

    why residential areas? Most HGV deliveries will be into CBDs.

    Delancey St, as referenced in the article, is largely residential, as is pretty much all of London bar the Square Mile.

    Cost? Perhaps that’s the biggest problem here. Everyone wants everything as cheap as possible (See the number of “Where’s cheapest” posts on here”), and adding cost to all that stuff isn’t seen as an option. Sadly.

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    its pretty obvious that a lot of tight roads werent designed with huge hgvs in mind (and vice versa)

    just look at all the mashed up corner kerbs on most city streets

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    its a crappy bit of road there
    lots of traffic, cyclists and pedestrians all over the place

    surprisd that it hasnt happened sooner
    hope she can recover
    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/woman-cyclist-suffers-life-changing-injuries-after-crash-with-tipper-truck-in-camden-8895992.html

    uselesshippy
    Member

    I don’t like this idea of putting stuff on smaller vehicles. Why replace 1 well trained driver with 30 idiots with no training.
    The real problem isn’t the attics, it’s the tipper Lorry’s.

    eyerideit
    Member

    Also, as already said, drivers are paid a bonus, which attracts a certain type of driver.

    ^^^This^^^

    I’ve seen a far higher percentage of tipper drivers ‘ discreetly texting/talking calls when at lights/moving off than I have of most other commercial vehicles.

    I stay well away from them because all they see is their bonuses as there job is to get from A to B as quickly as possible.

    If you rode in London daily you’d know what I mean.

    Premier Icon BoardinBob
    Subscriber

    Large vehicles with blind spots shouldn’t be on the road.It is a completely avoidable accident waiting to happen

    [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATocBBd7ARs[/video]

    soobalias
    Member

    main differences are a way higher front bumper, No side bars, Massive clearance around spray guards

    if you are gonna get hit by something, you dont want a site vehicle.

    toby1
    Member

    That video Bob 😯 In the UK too!

    It is sad to see anyone being hurt by moving traffic, sounds like it could have happened to me, although I’m pretty cautious of exaggerated turning circles.

    uselesshippy
    Member

    Yep, if you look at the stats, a high percentage of cyclist deaths are caused by hgvs. About 80/90% of these deaths are caused by tippers…
    This is the first thing that needs sorting out.

    Premier Icon DezB
    Subscriber

    What is it about tipper trucks that makes them more dangerous than other HGVs?

    The drivers

    Definitely!
    One clipped me on the arm once – traffic lights ahead so I jumped on his step and opened the door “You just hit me”.. “No I didn’t”. Thick as pigshit.

    Premier Icon crazy-legs
    Subscriber

    Well the nice Mr Boris has just announced another one of his #AskBoris sessions on Twitter – use @MayorofLondon and #AskBoris to ask when he’s going to do something about this, what measures he’ll take to improve the Cycle Superhighways after last week’s damning verdict of them by the coroner in the cases of Brian Dorling and Philippine De Gerin-Ricard (both killed on that Bow roundabout junction on CS2) and why tipper trucks like that are still allowed on the streets.

    Session should be starting about 4.30pm today.

    andypandy85
    Member

    If she was going past the truck on the right as it turned left then the cyclist is at fault, surely?

    Common sense dictates that a lorry making a tight turn might swing out to the side to help make the turn. Since she was performing an overtaking manoeuvre when it wasn’t safe to do so, she is at fault.

    For the “anti-anything but bikes” brigade…

    Overtaking according to the Highway Code

    Premier Icon Lifer
    Subscriber

    You’re assuming a lot to be so certain.

    Also:

    168
    Being overtaken. If a driver is trying to overtake you, maintain a steady course and speed, slowing down if necessary to let the vehicle pass. Never obstruct drivers who wish to pass. Speeding up or driving unpredictably while someone is overtaking you is dangerous. Drop back to maintain a two-second gap if someone overtakes and pulls into the gap in front of you.

    Premier Icon crazy-legs
    Subscriber

    If she was going past the truck on the right as it turned left then the cyclist is at fault, surely?

    You’re assuming she was overtaking the lorry rather than the lorry “undertaking” her. I don’t think this thread is the place to be apportioning blame.

    Premier Icon whippersnapper
    Subscriber

    I cycle up there every day…it’s 4 lanes wide with a 20mph limit. All lanes, all vehicles and bikes generally moving at the same speed she could have just been in the next one along from the lorry (normally where I am to be honest as I don’t turn left). Whilst common sense may dictate to stay away from big lorries it has no right to simply change lanes whilst someone else was using it.

    I had assumed (before reading this thread) it was another cyclist going up the inside of a lorry. Scary accident.

    Premier Icon Lifer
    Subscriber

    From the web link:

    They said she had been travelling on the right-hand side of a tipper truck heading straight along the road when it turned left into Delancey Street, colliding with the bike and dragging it under its front wheels.

    Premier Icon DezB
    Subscriber

    I had assumed it was another cyclist going up the inside of a lorry

    Strange, I always assume it’s the lorry left-hooking the cyclist.

    Premier Icon whippersnapper
    Subscriber

    I see it a lot unfortunately Dez

    Premier Icon bails
    Subscriber

    According to all the reports, the lorry was heading in the direction the camera is facing and making a left turn off Camden High St onto Delancy St here: http://goo.gl/maps/MYWgy

    The cyclist was on the right of the lorry, trying to go straight on.
    There are three ‘straight on’ lanes to the right of the ‘left turn’ lane. It’s entirely possible that she was in an seperate lane to the truck and was just trying to go straight on in lane 2 when the lorry swung from lane 1 into lane 2 in order to get around the corner. so it’s not her ‘overtaking’ a lorry at a junction, but a lorry changing lanes without any warning. And that’s assuming that she was going as fast as the truck, she may well have been undertaken by it right before the collision.

    edit: Slow typing, lots of the above has already been said.

    Clapham or Camden? confused.

    Banning ‘site vehicles’ from London Streets would be a start – see http://lcc.org.uk/articles/lcc-challenges-construction-industry-to-adopt-its-safer-urban-lorry-to-reduce-lorry-cyclist-deaths

    Skip trucks, scaffold trucks, tippers. All seem to be driven recklessly.

    Premier Icon bails
    Subscriber

    It’s Camden, I’ve changed my original post.

    dirk_pumpa
    Member

    Jesus that looks grim.

    I stay well away from lorries and such like when i’m in the car let alone on a bicycle.

    It’s a shame that so many cyclists are oblivious to the danger they pose.

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