Let's move it on to page 4. This is shitting hilarious.

I think Surf-Mats concern is with how BP are handling the PR aspect, and they are doing a terrible job, mainly because of cultural differences in American board rooms vs British board rooms. I think he must comprehend that BP needs to maintain shareholder confidence in order to remain viable and come through this, its just that the messages their PR machine are putting out should be very very different, they really should have hired some American consultants to help Tony Hayward with the American audience. I think if they had a better PR team then Surf-Mat, and 320M Americans would be a lot happier.

Jesus f**king christ – someone gets it – AT LAST!

Only took 4 pages to get that!

Maybe Surf need better PR too?

Right i will go hide!! 😆

Technically it took 3 pages, but hey, we are trying to save this damn well, so who's counting?? 😆

I've been reading the various threads started about this and now feel compelled to contribute. I work for BP and would like to say everyone feels disappointed this has happened but are doing everything possible to seal this permanently hence the 2 wells currently being drilled. All legitimate claims in GOM will be paid. Some comments the CEO made could have been phrased better but I'm sure anyone would start feeling the pressure after 7 weeks working 7 days a week. Anyone who has worked for bp knows how strict the hse rules are but drilling for oil is an inherently dangerous business. If this upsets you so much I suggest not using your car for the next week (makes no difference not buying bp fuel, all comes through their pipelines) as means of demonstration. Also if they were to get into financial difficulty then you the tax payer will bail them out, which nobody wants. 8% of all pension funds are in bp and make up 6% of the ftse so if they do get into trouble every single one of us will pay in 1 way or another. Obama has come across very anti British during this which is disappointing but is trying to save his own neck.

fwb2006: "… Also if they were to get into financial difficulty then you the tax payer will bail them out, which nobody wants. 8% of all pension funds are in bp and make up 6% of the ftse so if they do get into trouble every single one of us will pay in 1 way or another. …"

So another gigantic company might get into massive trouble threatening the public for bail out? So everyone suffers in the same boat … Hhhmmmmm … nahhh … let's suffer together and let BP sinks.

It's time like this where everyone suffers that new technology will be
"innovated", otherwise nobody get off their backside. Too comfortable.

As for Obama … BP drills in his backyard so what is he supposed to do? Say thank you to BP? Of course his neck is on the copping board but I am sure he would rather BP than his.

With regards to the risk of drilling … hmmm … the word is risk. So you know the risk, you gambled, you got burnt, so pay up as simple as that rather then giving some lame excuses of strict rules etc. Just like playing roulette someone is going to get it sooner or later … so it's BP turn this time.

As the Predator (in the movie Predator 2) said … "shit happens …".

😈

As for Obama … BP drills in his backyard so what is he supposed to do? Say thank you to BP? Of course his neck is on the copping board but I am sure he would rather BP than his.

Of course – another posturing politician. Who would expect different?

With regards to the risk of drilling … hmmm … the word is risk. So you know the risk, you gambled, you got burnt, so pay up as simple as that rather then giving some lame excuses of strict rules etc. Just like playing roulette someone is going to get it sooner or later … so it's BP turn this time.

Yep – and that's what they're doing.

However, as a newspaper article pointed out, when this is all over, the only people with the resources to drill in deep water will be supermajors like … BP. And the only one with experience of handling disasters in deep water will be … BP.

As for Obama … BP drills in his backyard so what is he supposed to do? Say thank you to BP? Of course his neck is on the copping board but I am sure he would rather BP than his

Having just lifted the moratorium on drilling in the region, he's acutely aware that a certain amount of shit may well be heading his way.

So Mat, what oil company do you use, and why?

The Spectator

More reading

ahwiles – Member

actually, i have to confess that the deepwater Horizon cock-up is my fault.

it's true, i did it. every time i complain about high oil prices (whilst filling up on my way to the alps), everytime i complain about expensive food, and expensive shiny bike bits, i'm piling on a bit more pressure to oil companies to drill a little deeper, cut a few corners, and explore ever more marginal oil fields.

we can punish BP, we can talk about all the things that went wrong, but the truth is, the biggest mistake that BP made was running out of luck.

why do you think BP are even attempting to extract oil from beneath a mile of ocean? – because I told them to.

why would BP cut corners? – because I told them to.

and it's your fault too, all of you.

we will carry on using oil, and we will carry on saying that we care about the environment, and we will carry on buying the cheapest fuel we can find.

we're all hypocrites.

sleep easy now.

X

That is very well said. I've been thinking for a while about this incident and whilst I'm sure lessons will be learnt for the future; the US public so vilifying a company producing a product that their wasteful use of has meant we are now hunting for it in stupid places like this seems a bit rich. This should act as a serious wake up call for all our current concepts of modern life. This stuff will run out and between now and then we will be constantly pushing the boundaries to keep on supplying it.

Depressing thought all around.

ps Good luck Surf-matt in excluding all consequences of BP oil from your day to day life – next spotted grubbing for worms, living in a cave I'd imagine.

So Mat, what oil company do you use, and why?

Mostly Shell because it's the closest…

Penrod explained my views very clearly and concisely. I won't buy BP fuel but I'm sure I'll be using products made with their oil – it's almost impossible to avoid that. That is all.

I'm glad others have now taken the baton and are coming up with some very interesting points. That was the original plan.

I will also avoid using banks I feel raped the UK public, won't buy sweatshop made clothes, will buy veg locally, will avoid products with huge air miles, will continue to work with and promote "green" clients and attempt to try and make a small difference. Clearly this makes me some kind of naive fool – why should I even bother eh?

I won't buy BP fuel

BP branded stations don't just sell BP manfactured fuel. BP branded refineries don't just process BP oil.

Good luck finding non BP fuel.

BP branded stations don't just sell BP manfactured fuel. BP branded refineries don't just process BP oil.

Good luck finding non BP fuel.

Oh really? I never knew that… 🙄

That was the original plan.

Poorly executed – you managed to insult and annoy just about everyone! There are better ways of starting thought provoking discussions.

Seriously though – do Shell or any other company do things systematically better?

But yes, we are all ultimately culpable for this. Even if you bought only Shell fuel, BP would still be forced to drill deep because of that just to compete. It's all our fault for being rampant consumers. You have to face up to that.

yer too right about the PR.. Engineers are good at Engineering but rubbish at PR.

Remember for most US bods they only see brits as bad guys in Hollywood films….brits are always the bad guys and even they use a US actor they always on a brit accent…

brit = bad guy – heeyar shoot the bad guy down

Oh really? I never knew that…

Do you have gas in you home, because guess what?

Surf – Mat.

You think the shareholders are not very important.

You, me and every one of us will do a lot better by BP maintaining their dividend payments. Do you have a pension? How about home insurance or car insurance, maybe you have travel insurance. You may support charities…. where do you think these intuitions invest their monies?

He’s a little bit of info for you…. £1 of every £7 paid by UK companies in dividends is paid by…… BP.

To be fair to Mat, whilst a company the size of BP remaining on the right track is good for all our personal circumstances; our personal circumstances should (and should be seen to) come 2nd to clearing up a mess like this. Making the vast amounts of profit a company like BP makes in the good years (i.e. non disaster years) only really seems justified if it means they are in position to have the cash to sort out these problems when they happen in the bad. It stands to reason that we are all oil consumers and the consequence of the oil industry are accidents like this (or tankers sinking etc) from time to time; so if we all have to take a financial hit for the year (i.e. no dividend this year for our pensions etc) in order for the company to have enough cash to do the job properly, well then so be it.

Do you have gas in you home, because guess what?

Nope.

Okay let's try an analogy shall we?

A guy hits a family pet dog in his Porsche and it's his fault. There are many witnesses. Instead of worrying about the badly injured dog, he rants about how much his car will cost to fix. It doesn't matter how much he actually worries about the dog – onlookers think he's a selfish pr1ck and hate him.

This IMO is the stance BP has taken.

In a parallel universe, the same guy hits the same dog, rushes out to see if it's okay, calls a vet then deals with the car damage later on.

This is the stance BP SHOULD have taken.

You can all quote "facts" and patronise me until the cows come home but the fact is, this is a disaster, it's destroyed a lot of the environment and the company seen as (even if they aren't) responsible are worrying about shareholders more than the disaster.

It's a bit like bankers taken big bonuses after being bailed out – whether it's right or wrong, it's pi55es everyone right off.

The whole PR thing is bollocks anyway.

The US have been on BP's case for a few years now. I can't remeber the exact stats but something like 95% of OSHAs NCRs in the past 3 years have been on 2 BP sites. Really? I wonder how many other refineries in the US have come under the same scrutiny in the same period?

Lets be clear about what safety violations actually are. It can be as serious as a non functioning safety device or as minor as a signature in the wrong box. OSHA have been crawling all over BP hunting for problems. Had they applied the same levels of manpower and scrutiny to other sites they would have uncovered many of the smae issues.

some context, Note that BP are making the headline but look at the industry performance as whole in Washington state!

There is a major problem with the US administration's attitude to BP and OSHA have been politicised to help drive BP out of the US market.

Seriously though – do Shell or any other company do things systematically better?

In my experience, no they don't.

from NASDAQ:

NEW YORK -(Dow Jones)- BP PLC (BP) agreed to pay a $69,200 fine for safety violations found at its Cherry Point refinery in Washington, the state's labor department said Friday.

The 225,000-barrel-a-day plant located near Blaine, Wash., received citations on May 5 for 13 serious safety violations for insufficient process-safety management issues following state inspections. BP also had the option to appeal the citations or request a meeting to discuss them.

Such safety violations are commonly found across the U.S. refining industry, which is the most frequent source of accidents or explosions related to chemical hazards.

"While it is good that BP has decided to correct the hazards without an appeal, we are disturbed that more than 10 years after the explosion that killed six workers at the Equilon refinery, our inspectors are still finding significant safety violations every time we inspect one of the refineries in the state of Washington," said Michael Silverstein, assistant director for the Washington State Department of Labor and Industries' Division of Occupational Safety and Health.

The 1998 Equilon explosion state's deadliest industrial accident until the blast at Tesoro Corp.'s (TSO) refinery nearby in Anacortes that claimed seven lives this past April. Meanwhile, the explosion at BP's Texas City refinery in 2005 was the industry's most destructive accident, killing 15 and injuring 170 people.

Mandatory inspections of Washington State's five oil refineries identified dangerous safety violation across the board.

The inspections at BP's Cherry Point refinery focused on a large hydrocracker processing unit used to process heavy oil into lighter products. Twelve of the violations involved regulations for managing highly hazardous chemicals. The final violation was related to improper machine guarding, but those problems were corrected before the citation has been issued, the labor department's press release said.

That's not a very good analogy though is it. A better one would be a guy hires a porsche with badly maintained brakes and first time out they fail and he hits a family dog and he agrees to pay whatever it takes to make the dog better, even though there is a legal maximum above which he is no liable.

This is what has actually happened.

Yoss – interesting reading – thanks.

BP have enough money for both the clean up and the divi. But not enough for an American lying PR company (it would seem)to make it all sound and look better than it really is, would that really help the situation? While everyone is having a pop/ranting at Tony Hayward for his comments and BP for their possible overall responsibility, there are loads of people working their bollocks off trying to solve the problem. There are companies being asked to supply kit that would normally take over 12 weeks to manufacture in 2 weeks, money no object.

+1

Tony Hayward put his foot in his mouth several times. Hardly a way to judge an entire company's handling of a crisis, is is?

poor bp victimised by the us H&S monkeys

so it has nothing to do with the oil leaks in alaska
the refinery explosion
25 deaths at bp sites in five years etc etc

the rig may have been owned by transocean and work contracted to haliburton

but they are responsible as they take the lions share of the profits, ultimately the buck stops with them

well them and the oil hungry government

if you dont have the technology to efficiently drill a well and be able to fix things when they go wrong then you really shouldnt be drilling there

its not just bps fault, it the us governments too, but it seems that the oil companies and the regulators had too cozy a relationship
just like with the banks!

governments, and electorates are happy to ignore the dangers while times are good

Is that 25 in the US or globally? Where they BP workers or part of a sub contract chain?

frankly Kimbers, 25 deaths at BP sites in five years ain't much when in context…

some figures for the US ONLY: http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5716a3.htm

scroll down to the 2 tables at the bottom

thats just the 11 deaths on the deepwater horizon and 14 at the texas oil refinery

dunno how many others may have died

but certainly in the texas refinery bps H&S was at fault

but certainly in the texas refinery bps H&S was at fault

i think we're going round in circles now

Kimbers – how many people died at other companies' facilities?

i have no idea but when they die in a large fireball the H&S people tend to take notice

and the 15 who died at texas another 170 were injured

going back to the analogy above BPs fault is that they obviously never checked to see if the brakes were working after they bought a high performance car with 100,000+ miles on the clock.

Surf Mat – very naiive about the fuel distribution and retail business. Have a look around your local geographical region….

… do BP, Shell, Total, Texaco, Tesco, Sainsbury, Asda etc all have a local refinery, distribution hub and road distribution network to support their retail outlets in your region??

No, of course they don't – actually, I'm not sure where the nearest Asda refinery is.

Reallity is, a large proportion of the, say petroleum, leaving a refinery is at a stock grade and shipped to local distribution depots. If Chevron (Texaco) own the nearest / only distribution depot in an area they will supply their own retail sites, plus all the other majors who might not have a local distribution site. Each company then add their own closely guarded blend (comercial secrecy) of additives to create their own fuel brands from the base stock grade petroleum.

Buncefield / Total were mentioned above in respect of H&S prosecutions. That site has had major repercussions in terms of H&S and environmental regulation of fuel storage sites in the UK – but what is not so widely known is that the Buncefield distribution depot was a joint venture of four oil major partners…(Total, Chevron, BP and Shell + the British Pipeline Agency)

Surf mat remember if you come north of Manchester in your car you will need to fill up an extra large fuel tank or tow your own fuel bowser. because everything there will have been down BP's forties pipeline (in fact probably all the fuel in the UK will have been down it with the exception of a few cheap independants)

falkirk-mark… not really. UK refineries are located at major ports so import of crude and export of product is largely market driven.

See below

UK petroleum supply chain

Look I will try and avoid using it – I realise that's nearly impossible but I will try. Very few BP stations down here anyway but yes, others use their fuel.

Look I will try and avoid using it – I realise that's nearly impossible but I will try. Very few BP stations down here anyway but yes, others use their fuel.

To add to your difficulties, the oil majors have been getting out of retail for years. Most of the forecourts are now franchises that have a particular brand "badge" and are tied in to fuel supply contracts – for fuel that may or may not have come from a BP refinery…

… infact, if you look at the previous link that I posted you will see that BP have / will soon have no UK refining capacity at all.

already the case in the UK

its lookin grim for bp

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/us_and_canada/10317817.stm

bankrupcy by the end of the year?

http://www.upstreamonline.com/live/article217708.ece

bankrupcy by the end of the year?

It must be true if the bookies are predicting it.

http://www.upstreamonline.com/live/article217647.ece

http://www.upstreamonline.com/live/article216333.ece

Have a look at this then look at the two above, would you believe it they used the law to protect the owners of the Titanic.