I’ll get the apology out the way right up front, and say this is a sort of Brexit related thread.

My question is this: As unscientific and poorly formed as the question might be, do you think the mood of the people has changed if you compare last summer with this summer?

I appreciate I’m in a London bubble, and it’s summer that makes London tolerable to me, because it does come alive and have a certain joie de vivre. My sense is that the joie has been more or less completely absent this year. I’m trying to establish if that’s cos I’m a remoaner, or if anyone else has noticed a broadly similar phenomenon. And if they have, is it safe to assume we can blame Brexit for all our woes?

is it safe to assume we can blame Brexit for all our woes?

Doesn’t matter; it’ll get the blame anyway.

is it safe to assume we can blame Brexit for all our woes?

Its not brexit per’se, more this current bunch of retards we have in government that have frankly split this country in half and continue to belittle everyone, and treat its citizens like shit.

That plus every news story is blasted with the same bloody Brexit topic and Political bullshit bingo.

Its enough to make everyone repressed and commit suicide… which is probably what they all want us to do.

My woes have sod-all to do with Brexit. I’m in the ‘just get the ruddy thing sorted either way’ camp.

there are 50+ OAPs shouting #stopthecoup once a week outside Milton Keynes train station every wednesday at the momemnt

these are not normal times

but more generally weve had 10 years of grinding austerity, its taking a toll

There has been very little positive progression in most peoples lives since the 2098 crash, not just in the UK but across the world. Corporations have used it as an excuse to take an extra pound of flesh from everyone’s lives. Brexit, trump etc are both partial causes and symptoms of a general feeling of misery.

Even entertainment is feeding the cycle, it feels that by far the majority of television and movies are bleak, with conspiracies and “dark forces working in the background” themes.

It’s created a really horrible division that I can’t see going away, for many years. The rational of thinking don’t care either way, as long as it’s not to people’s detriment, but the rest are lunatics on both sides.

I really don’t think the politicians are to blame either; it’s our extreme stances, that have to be seen to accommodated for, that’s the problem.

But outside of either of those polarised bubbles, yes, the rest of us are lacking any joy because we’re trapped in a fact-deprived, emotionally-driven, blind leap of faith.

In general most people in my circle of contact are tired and miserable with a general apathy toward things.

Outside of that the standard of manners, trust and interaction seems to have dropped.

Just to cheer everyone up that “just wants it sorted”….remember, the leaving of the EU is the “easy” part of the negotiations.

We won’t have sorted trading arrangements with the rest of the world for perhaps a decade?

Also…. If we leave the EU under acrimonious terms, ie crashing out and not paying the divorce bill… the EU are going to be a little bit hard line with us in regard to trade terms.😉 Then we also have the joy of getting a deal with Trump with bugger all leverage on our side.

Either way, Brexit will be in the news for many years to come, it’s now defining what and who we are.

It’s a battle for the very soul of this country

Embrace it or fight it or ignore it but it’s not going away any time soon.

since the 2098 crash

Have I been in a coma?

Can I just check… who’s the president?

Biff Tannen.

I’m in a Bristol/London double bubble. Both have a seething anger to them due to the political climate. London feels largely hopeless, Bristol seems to be finding some energy and resilience, perhaps because it’s not full of bankers and has a few hippies?

Doesn’t matter; it’ll get the blame anyway.

Brexit itself won’t get the blame, the EU will.

If you asked a random 100 people why thier joie de vivre was low, you would get 100 different answers. I can’t imagine any of them would be Brexit.

Not even the politicians look all that glum. And the press is revelling in it.

I’m off to a wedding tonight, I’ll ask those there if Brexit is making them feel “low”

I doubt you’ll be surprised at the answer.

We are all poorer because of Brexit, and we’re only just beginning with it… cost of living changes hit people’s mood badly… arguably more so in the big cities.

I can’t imagine any of them would be Brexit.

Alpin wasn’t in your sample then.

It all seems business as usual to me

I prefer the “free hugs” lot outside Milton Keynes station on a Friday morning. They never want to hug the sweaty cyclist for some reason.

The recession is coming.
As Winston Churchill said, “ Let people vote for things, then give it to them hard”.
Some of the Loons I know are gagging for the No Deal. They’ll find out when Bozza kills their pensions.

We are all poorer because of Brexit, and we’re only just beginning with it…

If people felt wealthy pre brexit , we would have remained by a huge margin. But this was not the case, what many remainers dont seem to understand is that many people that voted leave had very little to loose.

I fully understand. When you are already struggling to make ends meet, any increase in the cost of living hits your mood **** hard.

Some of the Loons I know are gagging for the No Deal.

And its that kind of speak that causes division. Them ( the thickos that didnt know what they were voting for) and me ( the smart one).

If people felt wealthy pre brexit , we would have remained by a huge margin. But this was not the case, what many remainers dont seem to understand is that many people that voted leave had very little to loose.

not to start an argument, whilst I agree with the sentiment. The demographics don’t fully back it. But however bad most people think they have it in the UK they have a lot to lose. How big are the slums in the UK? How many people make a living by combing tips for scrap.

The issue IN MY EXPERIENCE is people thinking the world owes them something because they are English.

university educated middle class, middle aged professional people that have benefited from cheap EU labour

Nah, but I’ve been cheap EU labour on occasion. And I reckon more people on here are cheap labour than fat cats. The main demographic is people rushing around working their butts off to keep all the balls in the air who are two missed pay cheques away from financial chaos.

Them ( the thickos that didnt know what they were voting for) and me ( the smart one).

Perhaps the people he knows, who want No Deal, are “loons”. There are also people far smarter, and far better positioned, than any of us looking to make a killing during and after No Deal. Some people pushing for No Deal are the smartest of the smart. The ones he knows might just be “loons”. Do you know them?

If people felt wealthy pre brexit , we would have remained by a huge margin. But this was not the case, what many remainers dont seem to understand is that many people that voted leave had very little to loose.

The EU was just the fall guy for decades of decline in many parts of the UK. Whether Tory (the worst obvs, or Labour they were both complicit) a good many parts of the country have been forgotten about since the 70’s.

Also….The trouble is, they (many Leavers) have got a lot to lose.

Unless they are homeless and begging, they have an awful lot. Add to that their and their families health, or rather health care and it won’t be pretty for even those that think it can’t get worse.

The real tragedy is that many of the town’s and communities that voted for Brexit will get hit by far the hardest.

I’ll be doing my best to look after my small family and the others I care about but I’m a carer for my mother and I know we are likely targets when more scapegoats are needed. Not to mention our reliance on the NHS, the other target that will be hit/privatised.

In truth I’m worried sick but I’m also powerless other than the placebo of tactically voting at any GE or referendum to come up.

I’m out of the thread now as it’s only going to get closed as we have The Thread for this.

I don’t know many Brits in real life. Of those the majority are remainers, the leavers are old and poorly educated with one exception who has more money than he knows what to do with.

I chatted with a couple of Brits today on the way up the Tourmalet. They were in very good spirits (as you’d hope being on a cycling holiday on great roads in perfect weather) and the ‘b’-word wasn’t used at all.

Low income groups will be disproportionately affected by any price rises in food and fuel. (HMT)

Two wrongs don’t make a right. We had no mandate to get into the EU in the first place. We never voted for it. We never got the opportunity to do so. Cowardly politicians skulked behind our backs and signed us upto it without consolation, consent or even letting us know. It’s irrelevant if the EU is fundamentally a good or bad thing for us. That ship sailed a long time ago. The fact is big chunks of the public feel aggrieved that we were not consulted before the politicians signed us up so that mistrust in the political elite has just laid dormant and festered in the absence of open debate and expression of opinions. That tends to happen when you deny vast swathes of the public the right to express their views, opinions and cast a vote and have some element of control in their lives. So no surprise when Pandoras box was opened all hell broke loose.

The irony is that if politicians at the time had been transparent and put things to the public and laid out the case in a sensible and coherent manner before signing us upto treaties that ceded away our sovereignty and independence, the chances are we would have gone along with it and all this might have been avoided and we’d be a happy, united pro European public…or alternatively a happy united independent UK. Who’d have thunk it that freedom, independence and sovereignty were concepts that the British public valued?

But certainly where I live in the midlands, peoples resolve and opinions have hardened and what surprises me is how many young people are in favour of just getting out by whatever means. A combination of just being sick and tired of it all and any result will be better than the nightmare we’re currently in with all the scheming and manipulation by the political elite on all sides, primarily for their own ends and political ambitions, and not in the interests of the public, that any other outcome is better than the current situation.

So much to say to that wobbli…. But I’m just not going to bother.

Second and final flounce.👍

Parliamentary democracy, Wobbliscott. Are you still leaning towards leave yourself?.

any result will be better than the nightmare we’re currently in with all the scheming and manipulation by the political elite on all sides

Here we go again… the inability to see that things can get worse… how do your see the “scheming and manipulation” ending… we have have a government who are the government because they were the best, and hired the best, at “scheming and manipulation”. Why are they going to do less of it from here on in?

I have no idea anymore to be honest. I voted remain but if a second vote came around I have no idea what I’d vote …probably leave just in a strange experiment to see what would actually happen. But one thing I’m coming to the conclusion of is that the chaos we’re seeing today has not cropped up out of the blue..it has to be something that is far more deeply rooted in our society that passed me by though these years, but now forced to take take notice of and suddenly form an opinion on trying to play catch up on 40 years worth of opaque political history. Not being in London and not surrounded by remainers and probably exposed to a more balanced view of opinions than Londoners, I can’t make sense of the argument on either side, so where do you go from there? It’s bollox, lies and deceit on both sides.

Parliamentary democracy, Wobbliscott. Are you still leaning towards leave yourself?.

Not sure what we’re witnessing is Parliamentary democracy. Ultimately Parliament should be enacting the will of the people. Parliament…or the members of, had their chance to influence public opinion before the votes were cast…once the votes were cast their job then becomes to execute the will of the people.

Ultimately Parliament should be enacting the will of the people.

Do you honestly believe that more people support Johnson’s Brexit current policies than do not? Or are you talking about the vote 3 years ago, where Johnson was proposing entirely different Brexit polices? Parliament does not have to fall behind one person’s interpretation of “the will of the people” (the PM’s), or indeed their idea of what is good for the country, unless he can convince enough MPs that he is correct.

No, parliament should be acting in the best interests of the people even if it’s not their will. That’s the whole point, you delegate responsibility to MPs, it’s representative democracy not direct democracy. With direct democracy you get all sorts of strange things happening such as people voting to persecute minorities, which is why many people voted leave.

No, parliament should be acting in the best interests of the people even if it’s not their will. That’s the whole point, you delegate responsibility to MPs

Yes, but the parliament takes their delegation form the public in trust that they will enact the will of the people following their instruction from the result of elections. MP’s are there to enact the will of the people…not ignore it or ‘interpret’ it.

MP’s are there to enact the will of the people

They really aren’t. Churchill had something to say on this, I’ll try and find it.

Edit to add: “he is the representative but not the delegate”

‘The first duty of a member of Parliament is to do what he thinks in his faithful and disinterested judgement is right and necessary for the honour and safety of Great Britain. His second duty is to his constituents, of whom he is the representative but not the delegate. Burke’s famous declaration on this subject is well known. It is only in the third place that his duty to party organization or programme takes rank. All these three loyalties should be observed, but there in no doubt of the order in which they stand under any healthy manifestation of democracy.’ Sir Winston Churchill on the Duties of a Member of Parliament.[4]

and the ‘b’-word wasn’t used at all.

Yeah everyone i know avoids it and groans when it’s mentioned, me included

MP’s are there to enact the will of the people…not ignore it or ‘interpret’ it.

I ask again. Do you think that more people support Johnson’s Brexit policy than do not? What is the “will of the people” as regards Johnson’s Brexit policy?