Amplifiers- biwiring and biamping help!

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  • Amplifiers- biwiring and biamping help!
  • Premier Icon dannybgoode
    Subscriber

    Using 2 sets of speaker terminals from one amp into one set of speakers is not really bi-amping – all it will do is possibly make your wiring a little easier.

    To bi-amp properly you need two power amps or an integrated and a power amp and they ideally be matched so usually a pre amp and two matched power amps is best.

    Regarding bi-wiring there is a train of thought that it is of little or no benefit. I run a single pair of cables to each speaker and use a high quality jumper lead in place of the usual piece of metal they give you to bridge the terminals.

    Cheers

    Danny B

    Premier Icon rockthreegozy
    Subscriber

    Cool.

    I’ve got both single (QED Silver Anniversery) and bi-wire cable so I may try the upgraded jumper option at some point

    Premier Icon richmtb
    Subscriber

    I’ve always though bi wiring was a bit of Hi-Fi snake oil.

    I could never hear a difference.

    Bi amping on the other hand is worth while, but you do need another amp

    Premier Icon gofasterstripes
    Subscriber

    Depends on the gear tho… My amp seemed not to like the load of just a tweeter and the sound was strident.

    daveh
    Member

    Yet to see any real science to explain biwiring, its just a sales gimmick IMO.

    Premier Icon rockthreegozy
    Subscriber

    Hi,

    I’ve got some;

    6ohm Wharfdale Diamond 9.1s
    Chord Carnival Silver Screen bi-wire cable
    An older Denon amp/receiver (sorry not sure of model!)

    Its currently bi-wired, but i’m instrested in biamping- the Denon has two speaker channels, A + B and so I thought I was sorted- but on the back of the amp it states;

    A or B = 4-12 ohms
    A + B 12= 12- 16 ohms

    So, I can’t use both channels successfully can I?

    Premier Icon gofasterstripes
    Subscriber

    Dunno, the capacitance and resistance presented to the amplifier must both change a little with biwiring.

    Premier Icon jkomo
    Subscriber

    I bi amped using one amp with two channels. Defo found it better

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    I heard a difference when bi-wiring. I cannot explain it with science. The most obvious change was that I bought a second cable run which was different cable, and when I changed which driver the good cable went to, it was extremely obvious.

    However bi-amping even with cheap kit made an even bigger difference.

    the capacitance and resistance presented to the amplifier must both change a little with biwiring.

    Yeah, I thought something along those lines.

    CountZero
    Member

    Yet to see any real science to explain biwiring, its just a sales gimmick IMO.

    Biwiring seems to ignore the fact that the wires are attached to a single pair of terminals, to which are attached another pair of wires inside going to the crossover board. In order to work, surely there would need to be separate terminals on the amp for bass and mid/treble, with the same on the speaker, with the internal wiring set up to match?
    It all sounds too much like all the voodoo attached to the old vinyl crowd; not wearing digital watches, or having unpowered transducers in the listening room to avoid affecting the overall audio experience.

    daveh
    Member

    Dunno, the capacitance and resistance presented to the amplifier must both change a little with biwiring.

    Yeah I’d agree, but I can’t see how it can be beneficial, rather biwiring makes cable inductance and capacitance important, single wiring less so.

    renton
    Member

    I bi amped using one amp with two channels. Defo found it better

    Just how do you “bi-amp” using one amp??

    Ive listened to a set of kef speakers that where intially singlewired, then bi wired and then bi amp’d.

    To be honest there was no real difference between single and bi wiring.

    However the difference between those two and bi amp was truly astonishing !! quite a big difference for me !

    Premier Icon richmtb
    Subscriber

    Just how do you “bi-amp” using one amp??

    Use a stereo amp to drive a centre speaker in a home cinema set up

    I’ve done it myself, works quite well

    Premier Icon gofasterstripes
    Subscriber

    I’m a bit confused – or do you mean the amp had 4+ channels of
    amplification. That’s what I used, a 6-chan receiver, using 4 of them to bi-amp two speakers.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    In order to work, surely there would need to be separate terminals on the amp for bass and mid/treble, with the same on the speaker, with the internal wiring set up to match?

    Well, there are two sets of terminals on bi-wirable speakers, with a removable bit of metal between them. If you remove the metal then the drivers are not connected together at all, but the filter part of the crossover still is. The speaker then does have one set of treble terminals and one set of bass terminals.

    The amp has to sets of terminals for wiring convenience, but they are the same. Although the amp presents the same signal on its end on each set of terminals, the filter at the driver end only means that each wire only carries the current for that frequency range.

    renton
    Member

    Use a stereo amp to drive a centre speaker in a home cinema set up

    I’ve done it myself, works quite well

    No you are still using one amp to drive one speaker??

    Bi-amping is using two amps to run a set of speakers. one amp for the bass/mid range and the other amp for tweeter !

    Premier Icon dannybgoode
    Subscriber

    @renton – or one amp for each speaker. Some set ups sound better that way…

    stevehine
    Member

    @renton – A stereo amp is just two amplifiers (one for each channel) in a single box – so using one to drive a single speaker is bi-amping.

    fr0sty125
    Member

    I wouldn’t and don’t bother with bi-wiring. Maybe it will sound slightly different but if you spent time picking out your components then surely you would prefer the signature you spent that time getting to.

    renton
    Member

    @renton – A stereo amp is just two amplifiers (one for each channel) in a single box – so using one to drive a single speaker is bi-amping.

    Nope thats wrong.

    Bi-amping is the use of two channels of amplification to power each loudspeaker within an audio system. It differs from the conventional arrangement in which each channel of amplification powers a complete speaker. I.E one amp per speaker.

    @dannybgoode…thats correct you can vertically or horizontally Bi amp a pair of stereo speakers.

    stevehine
    Member

    @renton

    I think we are talking cross purposes here (at least I hope we are)

    You take a mono signal; input it to both channels of a stereo amp and then use the left to feed the woofer and the right channel to feed the tweeter. One mono signal source; one mono speaker. Two amps. Bi-Amping.

    Sorry if I wasn’t clear that’s what I meant.

    renton
    Member

    @stevehine

    Yep thats what I was trying to get across lol !!

    plumber
    Member

    Bi amping is sending the appropriate frequencies to the appropriate size driver (speaker)

    You would need at the very least a passive crossover but much better an active crossover

    for a bass bin in essence you need a device to filter all the high frquencies out so all the power the amp is sending to the 12″/15″ driver (speaker) is the bass frequncies and is therefore that much more efficient

    CountZero
    Member

    Well, there are two sets of terminals on bi-wirable speakers, with a removable bit of metal between them. If you remove the metal then the drivers are not connected together at all, but the filter part of the crossover still is. The speaker then does have one set of treble terminals and one set of bass terminals.

    Yes, I’d forgotten that some speakers had that facility, but most speakers only have the one pair of terminals.
    I think the bi-amping thing can get a bit blurred by the fact that you can have a system with a pre-amp, and a pair of monobloc amps, but each amp is driving bass and treble, so I guess bi-amped, but not how bi-amping is normally meant.
    I have an old system like that; Logik DM101 t/table, Rotel RA820 pre-amp into a pair of Crimson power amps.

    stevehine
    Member

    Yeah; I agree with CountZero and Plumber – if you are going to the hassle of bi-amping then ideally you’d do it with an active crossover before the power amps and then you could actually remove the crossover elements in the speakers entirely..

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    Yes, I’d forgotten that some speakers had that facility, but most speakers only have the one pair of terminals.

    They are not bi-wirable ones in that case. Both kinds exist.

    I have only bi-amped because I noticed a Cambridge Audio power amp on clearance for £50 I think (it was faulty but I fixed it) and I thought I’d try it linked to my CA A5 integrated amp. Whichever range I used the power amp for ended up sounding FAR better than the other one, so I searched ebay and got a preamp and another power amp for £100 I think. Pretty good system for the money I reckon. I may have been lucky to end up with a system that suits the set-up, I dunno.

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