Basically i have an opportunity to take part in a trial of testing methods for EPO (the research is WADA funded and done via a university). Half of the subject group will be on placebos but half will be on the real stuff.

Those involved wouldnt be able to race during this period (which i think is 2 x 12 weeks) but presumably they are going to reap the benefits of their training during that time. Ethically that is pretty dubious IMO although it would be interesting to see what improvements can be made!

Anyway is EPO safe to take in a controlled environment and what are the potential side effects short and longer term?

Strava will be yours!

I wouldn’t without being very clear on the risks but it’d certainly be an interesting study/results.

Yes.

Is this the research that Glasgow and Heriot Watt unis are doing?

Sheet yeah… woo!! I would be awesums… oh, hang on..

why amateur racers? do you expect them to compete in a race before and after the trial period? Just curious in terms of how you are measuring it and whether EPO is banned or not for amateur races?

Where do I sign up?

I’m in! where do i sign (I want to dominate my commute!)

EPO is licensed in cancer treatment, where patients are by the nature of the illness quite poorly, it is also created naturally in the body IIRC. If it thickens your blood (by creating a higher blood cell count) then the risk of stroke, heart attack and blood clots increases as well.

Oh **** yes!!! just don’t tell your mates.
😈

Not if I was in the placebo group.

Yes, I think I’d do it. I would however, make it known that I was doing it, and that any race results could well be impacted by the trial.

Hmm Edgar. Go for it.

No on the basis of not wanting to have it shoved in my face that you can’t turn a donkey in to a racehorse… I prefer to remain delusional and kid myself of my abilities if I were to have a little LA style help 😀

Edit: The study organisers are the ones you should be asking these questions to rater than here! You will not take part without giving informed consent so ask the organisers the questions and read the documentation 🙄

Yes, I’d be intrigued! Have to say though, without racing and quantification of the difference it’d be difficult to measure in all but those who train fanatically anyway I reckons.

why amateur racers? do you expect them to compete in a race before and after the trial period? Just curious in terms of how you are measuring it and whether EPO is banned or not for amateur races?

When amateurs get their race license they have to agree to submit to doping controls at races (even if its something that is extremely unlikely to ever happen at the level most of those who have a race license compete at)

The study is measuring things via a vo2 max test, a sprint/lactate test and also a blood test.

The study organisers are the ones you should be asking these questions to rater than here! You will not take part without giving informed consent so ask the organisers the questions and read the documentation

I thought it would be better hearing some independent views rather than hearing from those doing the study who perhaps only look towards the medical side of things rather than the wider issues.

I have been on my placebo training program for months as yet I don’t fell any faster.

you need a higher dose placebo scottfitz.

Maybe I should start injecting it?

I would. I’d be fascinated to find out what it felt like, whether I felt stronger/faster. Just inquisitive I guess.

Nah, you need a homeopathic placebo.

I saw Placebo at Reading in 2010, I wasn’t any faster on my bike afterwards. There’s an ELO tribute band touring at the moment, should I see them instead?

As for the OP, is it any worse beating a guy on £1500 aero wheels whilst taking EPO, than the guy on £1500 wheels beating the guy on a £500 bike with cheep handbuilts?

Ask if they can give you some hgh as well. 😀

Actually, fun though it sounds, I’m not sure I would. Part of the fun with biking comes from slowly chipping away at times on various sections. While it would be fun to rocket up the leaderboard with a bit of pharmaceutical assistance this would be outweighed by the knowledge that I’d probably never beat those times again.

why stop at EPO, lets level the field by cycling on E, speed, ket, acid, coke and H. & not forgetting most fat bikers favourite..

Nah, you need a homeopathic placebo.

TOO FAR! I’m not an idiot!

@ Jekkyl: That won’t end well. “Put me back on my bloody bike” etc etc etc

I would sign up in an instant; at the very least you will get good data on your power and VO2 max and possible potential. Expect about a 6% increase on EPO and a modest rise in haematocrit accordingly (% blood that is red blood cells). EPO is safe and well-tolerated at the prescribed regimen, the original dangers were associated with very high and unregulated haematocrits, coupled with dehydration leading to stroke. I would expect a stopping criteria for treatment (blinded) based on measured haematocrit of 50%.

Are they planning on the rather smart Ferrari low dose into the veins regimen that kept US Postal clean? It really was very clever and showed an excellent undertstanding of how to optimise a drug.

Bjarne Riis had a reported haematocrit of over 60 when he won the TdF, alledgedly. Normal range is up to 52%.

In the spirit of full declaration, I’m a Clinical Pharmacologist who designs these sorts of trials as my day job and an aspiring Cat4 and masters E1234 racer. I think half the masters would sign up given half the chance – 27mph last week 😆 !

I’ve often wondered what it might be like cycling on the little round normally white ones. Given that they make you dance for several hours it might prove quite fruitful but you might also end up stood at the side of the road observing the gentle beauty of nature.

Do it.
Then next time you get heckled by a driver/pedestrian ‘You’re all on drugs! you can go ‘hell, yeah’ and pedal off into the far distance at great speed 🙂

& not forgetting most fat bikers favourite..

niche coffee..?

In the spirit of full declaration, I’m a Clinical Pharmacologist who designs these sorts of trials as my day job and an aspiring Cat4 and masters E1234 racer. I think half the masters would sign up given half the chance – 27mph last week !

Presumably the other half are already using? 😉

Fascinating article about a journalist who took EPO and HGH as an experiment:
http://www.outsideonline.com/fitness/Drug-Test.html
Been a while since I read it but IIRC the chap said it made him feel amazing, and years younger! Virtually no health risk, the only drawback being the cost (and illegality I guess!)

Nothing illegal about it.

I’ve always wanted to try it, partly to get a good idea of my natural levels and partly to understand how it impacts performance. They should make you all wear US Postal kit while riding to ensure everyone knows you’re doped 🙂

Yea would be interesting to take part in it.as said would be good just to see how beneficial/effective it is.

Glupton what’s the Glasgow/heriot watt thing?

Nothing illegal about it.

yeah, I meant for competitive types!

as long as they send a leggy blonde to wake me up in the middle of the night to stop my blood turning to glue then I’m in….

Don’t thing it would be on to race on it, but I’d be all over Strava like a nasty rash…

No such thing as amateur racing in terms of controls. The same rules apply to everyone, assuming we are talking about competition under the mandate of a governing body with anti doping rules, such as the UCI.
You are not going to get a free pass because you are part of a study. Of course, you are unlikely to be tested unless you start winning races, so in practical terms this is more of a moral question. Are you prepared to break the rules you agreed to follow when you took out a racing licence?
I would think about the risk of being targeted for testing if it becomes known that you are participating in the trial.
I suspect that the trial organisers will be well aware of all these issues, and will provide very clear guidance about the implications. For an active athlete in a sanctioned sport, I am pretty sure it is going to be a no-no.