Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 52 total)
  • Alternatives to gas boilers
  • anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    Ours is old and inefficient (I expect) although our 3 bed terrace doesn’t cost a lot to heat (iirc it’s about £60/month for gas and electricity). It’s serviced every year, just done, every year the man says it may die one day soon. About £2000 to replace.
    What are the alternatives to gas and how much do they cost and what are people’s experiences? Air source heat pumps?

    Bear
    Free Member

    New boiler at best 20% more efficient saving say £10 a month, that’s a lot of months saving to pay for new boiler.
    ASHP will be more expensive than that and the savings still not enough to justify, especially if your current boiler is a combi.
    ASHP should be reducing in costs as demand increases, but new technology will be needed to replace large sections of the current heating stock.
    For now the answer is probably another gas boiler, if you have to change it, a few years time the answer may be different though.

    ginsterdrz
    Free Member

    YouTube>Skillbuilder>Roger Bisby

    He’s done at least 2 vids on alternatives but basically the technology is lagging behind.

    Air source a big no no according to Roger.

    A mate was nearly off grid with a heat store, wood burner with rear heat exchanger, thermal and solar. Seems you’ve got to REALLY want to do it as there’s little help and the government only pay lip service to ‘green’ when BJ has another divorce/CSA payment due.

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    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    Not looking to replace the boiler unless it dies, just curious about alternatives…will have a look on YouTube, thanks

    Edukator
    Free Member

    In France you can get a DIY ASHP kit from Brico Depot which is part of the Kingfisher group (B&Q) for 650e. The pipes come pre-filled. If your home is reasonably insulated that will be enough, if not double that. You’ll need to budget for some noise mitigation so you don’t piss off the neighbours. You’re a teacher, I’m confident you have the nouse and motivation to DIY.

    Our neighbours have one, just a small one. Their choice was decided by the ability to use it as A/C in Summer. We discussed where they put it and I can’t hear it even when I’m listening for it.

    https://www.diy.com/one-planet-home/eco-retrofit

    paton
    Free Member

    paton
    Free Member

    IHN
    Full Member

    Is paton a person or a bot?

    midlifecrashes
    Full Member

    Not entirely tongue in cheek:

    Insulate more and heat recovery vent. Then just bin the boiler altogether, electric panel heaters, a gaming PC and a woodburner for the fun of it will give you enough heat. Instant water heater under the sink and electric shower, job jobbed.

    If you’re boiler is already a combi and doesn’t need moving, Boxt.co.uk can save you a few hundred on that £2k, super service, I phoned them 2pm one day and the new boiler was fitted and working by 4.30 the next day.

    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    Woodburner, no way, 100% not getting one, hateful smelly things

    Trailseeker
    Free Member

    Is copy & paste a person or a bot?

    School holidays innit

    dovebiker
    Full Member

    ASHP on really viable if you have a super-insulated, airtight home otherwise you may as well have a fire, burn tenners and huddle around them 😉

    Bear
    Free Member

    ASHP can be viable, install costs are still high, running costs much better, efficiencies getting better, temperatures they produce getting higher. Good design is critical, as is installation, but more so design.

    One of the arguments will be to swap the incentives that the fossil fuel industries receive (or don’t if you believe government) to electrcity production. That might level the playing field a bit more.

    There will be another raft of you tube videos promoting heat pumps too from similar people that have a vested interest in that section of the heating industry. I would try to find some real scientific data.

    TheBrick
    Free Member

    Unless it’s already well insulated and ventilated ashp will probably not be viable unless an whole house approach is taken. I.e. upgrade ventilation, insulation and quite possibly radiators (depending on what can be done with the insulation / ventilation). Worth doing if you’re into for the long term, not for financial reasons but to make a nice environment to live but all the work means it would probably be best do e as a complete renovation of the house. So £££

    bassmandan
    Full Member

    I really like the idea of an ASHP from the perspective of moving away from gas. Had a quote for ~ £6500 after the 7 years worth of payments from the gov incentive scheme. Was £11k or so up front I think.

    On the flip side, I could get a combi boiler fitted in the loft (freeing up space in the kitchen) and ditch the hot water tank (to gain another cupboard) for ~£3k give or take £500.

    I’m pretty much in the same position, that my 25 year old boiler may give up completely at any minute, if it lasts another few years a heat pump might be a better choice but for now I think a replacement boiler is best for the wallet by a long way.

    espressoal
    Free Member

    Woodburner, no way, 100% not getting one, hateful smelly things

    Done properly there is no smell or smoke, all of my heat for the last 7 years has been free, I spend about a week a year cutting, chopping and stacking though and you have to bring log in and feed it.

    Gas for hot water, electricity for light, those bills are tiny, besides food heat is possibly the most expensive thing humans buy.

    I have a friend that just fitted 8 solar panels(5k) and their meter is now stopped, they generate more than they use, electric radiators on that might work out free.

    squirrelking
    Free Member

    I have a friend that just fitted 8 solar panels(5k) and their meter is now stopped, they generate more than they use, electric radiators on that might work out free.

    Doubt it, unless they only run the heating in summer.

    trail_rat
    Free Member

    I have a friend that just fitted 8 solar panels(5k) and their meter is now stopped, they generate more than they use, electric radiators on that might work out free.

    5k what ?

    And no it won’t heat their house.

    2*1.5kw electric oil rads won’t go very far in a house.

    espressoal
    Free Member

    5k what ?

    £5k for 8 solar panels installed with a control box.

    Heat storage tank?

    trail_rat
    Free Member

    Heat storage tank. That’ll be the hot water sorted.

    5k seems steep for 8 panels. I assume they are some fancy panels.

    Nobeerinthefridge
    Free Member

    As of 2024, no more new builds in Scotland will have gas boilers, gonna be interesting.

    brads
    Free Member

    About time.

    In the mean time developers are ramming in as many gas boilers as poss.

    No way will my next house have a gas connection.

    asbrooks
    Full Member

    I have a friend that just fitted 8 solar panels(5k) and their meter is now stopped.

    A mate also has this, fitted 5 years ago. He also has a hot water tank that the panels also feed into. During the summer months he says he pays nothing for heating hot water nor for electricity use. He said that even in the winter months it’s nowhere near what he was paying when his energy came from supplied gag & electricity.

    espressoal
    Free Member

    A mate also has this, fitted 5 years ago. He also has a hot water tank that the panels also feed into. During the summer months he says he pays nothing for heating hot water nor for electricity use. He said that even in the winter months it’s nowhere near what he was paying when his energy came from supplied gag & electricity.

    I’m considering it so interested, or anything else, just want rid of gas, both the friend and I rely on wood stove for main heat supply so perhaps easier, no reliance on one single thing.

    They don’t have a tank yet so I’ll see how that goes.

    espressoal
    Free Member

    Heat storage tank. That’ll be the hot water sorted.

    5k seems steep for 8 panels. I assume they are some fancy panels.

    I thought that was reasonable, he is pretty savvy, they are pretty invisible on the roof, all in in one day but I don’t know the first thing about solar panels so no idea.

    The tank confuses me, spoke to a fitter and he was trying to convince me it was a miracle solution, storing power being the biggest problem etc etc, it can keep water hot at the same temperature for two weeks apparently, and general dish washing water is luke warm from the warming outer tank, the one I looked at was 3 tanks inside each other, convinced that all works as they said but seemingly if it ever goes cold…you just flip an emersion heater and your free electricity heats it up, sounds too good to be true.

    dickyhepburn
    Free Member

    We have a 1000L thermal store with a stratified heat exchanger on the side, inputs from 4 solar panels, condensing oil boiler and back boiling wood burner. Whole house is underfloor heating and v well insulated. In the summer the solar panels run the hot water (2 teenagers who love multiple long showers) and any extra heat the house may need (not much as we have central glass areas for passive solar heating) without the boiler being needed. In the winter they make enough heat for the underfloor heating so boiler(s) just put heat into the top of the tank for hot water. Would defo recommend as our oil usage is massively less than average for a house of our size (no gas in the country!).
    Back boiling wood burners are not worth IMO as they have to be quite large so in a well insulated room put out too much heat.

    squirrelking
    Free Member

    general dish washing water is luke warm from the warming outer tank

    Mmm legionella, nice. That’s the reason water is supposed to be heated above 60 degrees. Also made worse if you run it through a shower head.

    I’d be very wary of any such elaborate setups, seems easy to get it wrong. Hell our calorifiers at work need treated once a month and still manage to breed it.

    trail_rat
    Free Member

    I’ve 12 panels on the roof.

    While it makes a dent in everything . Anyone claiming it does it all either has a battery, huge panels in excess of 3.6kwh or a hefty dose of exaggeration.

    footflaps
    Full Member

    Done properly there is no smell or smoke,

    Maybe not inside, but you’re belching out more PM10s than a diesel engine.

    natrix
    Free Member

    During the summer months he says he pays nothing for heating hot water nor for electricity use.

    Really? So he never watches TV in the evening, turns off his fridge and freezer overnight, never turns on the lights??

    fossy
    Full Member

    Our gas bill for hob and the boiler for CH is just £40 a month – 25 year old small Baxi. Not sure we will ever get that much cheaper with anything new.

    Leccy is huge, hot tub, 2 gaming PC’s, WFH.

    wobbliscott
    Free Member

    general dish washing water is luke warm from the warming outer tank

    Mmm legionella, nice. That’s the reason water is supposed to be heated above 60 degrees. Also made worse if you run it through a shower head.

    I’d be very wary of any such elaborate setups, seems easy to get it wrong. Hell our calorifiers at work need treated once a month and still manage to breed it.

    Yep..got a new dishwasher that defaults to ‘eco’ mode. After a few months of use it developed a nice slimey orange grease on everything that began to stink. Tried washing the dishwasher with those little bottles of detergent and everything but eventually just started turning off the eco mode and using the full hot wash and no issues since.

    Often doing stuff at low temperature is a false economy as you have to do stuff longer with cooler water so end up consuming the same energy anyway…then you have the hygiene side of things.

    espressoal
    Free Member

    Maybe not inside, but you’re belching out more PM10s than a diesel engine.

    I have had this levelled many times, usually with little understanding, wood dried to -15%mc going into a hot stove has virtually no smoke, this is it burning efficiently, particles in the air are dependent on the burning temperature, cold is not good, badly seasoned wood brings the temperature down hence smoke, if you need the heat you need to burn efficiently, your issue is more likely with the decorative wood burning stove fraternity.
    I’m multi fuel so also occasionally burn smokeless anthracite, to give you an idea of the standard, this smokes and smells quite noticeably, and what the government would prefer everyone to burn, wood varies but I have never had wood burn anything close to that, which is the smokeless standard.

    espressoal
    Free Member

    Mmm legionella, nice. That’s the reason water is supposed to be heated above 60 degrees. Also made worse if you run it through a shower head.

    I’d be very wary of any such elaborate setups, seems easy to get it wrong. Hell our calorifiers at work need treated once a month and still manage to breed it.

    His is warmer than mine out of the combi boiler, like most people I imagine I turn it down, never had legionella to my knowledge, would I notice?

    Scienceofficer
    Free Member

    I’ve 12 panels on the roof.

    While it makes a dent in everything . Anyone claiming it does it all either has a battery, huge panels in excess of 3.6kwh or a hefty dose of exaggeration.

    This depends on how well its optimised.

    I don’t know the kit, shading, roof angle, elevation, string design or installation configuration but all these factors can combine to make your 3.6KW nothing like 3.6KW.

    That said, broadly I agree with your sentiment.

    big_n_daft
    Free Member

    On the flip side, I could get a combi boiler fitted in the loft

    Will it work if the water mains pressure drops to 1.5 bar?

    trail_rat
    Free Member

    I don’t know the kit, shading, roof angle, elevation, string design or installation configuration but all these factors can combine to make your 3.6KW nothing like 3.6KW.

    I think I’m doing ok for being at 57 north

    And for balance today where it was not sunny at all and grey + thunder we got 4kwh. Didn’t register anything above 0.8kw

    espressoal
    Free Member

    My electric is around £20 per month, gas heats water and wood stove heats, very rarely need to run radiators(which are gas anyway) how many solar panels do I need as a rough guide? and how many to heat water and do away with the gas?

    squirrelking
    Free Member

    His is warmer than mine out of the combi boiler, like most people I imagine I turn it down, never had legionella to my knowledge, would I notice?

    I thought you said it was lukewarm? Which is it?

    Will it work if the water mains pressure drops to 1.5 bar?

    It should as long as it’s not 15m above the main

    espressoal
    Free Member

    I thought you said it was lukewarm? Which is it?

    Bit less than lukewarm, has been for years, I turned the dial down one day when it felt a bit hot, I don’t think that is terribly unusual.

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