Alternative to an Orange P7?

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  • Alternative to an Orange P7?
  • chrisd
    Member

    On-one inbred?

    bananaworld
    Member

    Thorn Stirling looks ace + uber-Rohloff compatible + rack mounts. I have a Raven Nomad and it rocks on and off road.

    james
    Member

    When you say custom route, do you mean custom frame or custom components?

    Cotic Soul fits the bill (I think) and should actually work out cheaper frame only, though I get the feeling you're after a complete bike. Have a look at the genesis altitude (the 853 ones)?

    Premier Icon ir_bandito
    Subscriber

    I know there are loads of posts asking "best 130ish-mm travel steel hardtail" but my requirements are fairly specific:

    130mm-ish forks.
    Sliding dropouts (Rohloff compatible).
    Pannier mounts.

    Basically, a P7. But does anyone make anything similar, but lighter, without going down the custom route?
    (And if anyone has anything for sale, I'm looking for a 19-20" frame)

    Premier Icon allankelly
    Subscriber

    From experience: the P7 sliding dropouts are fatally flawed and will fail you repeatedly, finally dumping you with a load of heavy metal that a moment ago was a rideable bike and is now just a load of metal- in the middle of nowhere. Cue Deliverance scenario.

    Buy an On-One "proper sliding dropouts that work" Inbred…

    …Except you can't cos they don't do them any more (they do horizontal dropout bikes AFAIK).

    Ah-ha! But I have an original white DN6 (ie steel) slidey that is for sale with SS and geared dropouts.

    A very very fine bike for sale, I may break it if you're polite.

    Might suit you?

    al.

    Lazgoat
    Member

    allankelly, why are the P7 sliding dropouts so fatally flawed?

    bananaworld
    Member

    Lazgoat – the sliding dropouts rely on mere friction to stop the driveside dropout sliding forward. (So do tracknuts but a fatty tracknut has big warehouseloads of force to stop the wheel sliding.)

    I could never get the dropout on me P7 to stay where I put it. Same problem with the older Kona Unit/Explosif sliding dropouts (managed to remove the thread out of those ones…), though Kona have redesigned it to have an extra screw (a la chain tug) to stop slipping.

    Premier Icon ir_bandito
    Subscriber

    Interesting point banana. Tried using Nordlock washers?
    Presently got a Thorn Raven, but the pannier mounts are specific to an (expensive) Old Man Mountain Sherpa rack, not conventional racks. And I'm not so fond of the EBB. It still slips and is not a trail-side tighten, which sliding dropouts would be.

    James – by Custom, I mean Custom frame, looking at at least £700.
    Cotic Soul has neither sliding dropouts or rack mounts.

    Allan – hmm, On-one… interesting. Can you send info & pics? email addy in profile.

    grantway
    Member

    Thought that problem was rectified when they put the correct size
    screw/bolt in the P7 when reviewd?

    Mackem
    Member

    Had the same problem on my P7 until I got the new version of the dropouts, havent moved a mm since.

    bananaworld
    Member

    bandito – Hmm, haven't heard of Nordlock washers, but the frame was sold many moons ago…

    Sorry to hear about your EBB slipping. Not trying to sound like a b@astard but I've not had a problem with the EBB on my Thorn. It actually inspired me to seek out more eccentricity and I've now got three bikes with them – it is definitely the most hassle-free method of tensioning a chain and the drive-side dropout with nothing on or around it looks minimistically magic.

    Is it a Raven Enduro you've got? Their rack mounts were indeed, um, interesting…

    grantway
    Member

    How much is the Rohloff
    Had heard its a good idea but not great, dont know anyone that has one!

    bananaworld
    Member

    Had heard its a good idea but not great

    It's the best thing in the whole world ever. Yeah, it's stupid money to get one (I had to sell two bikes to buy one…) but I've never looked back and love it dearly.

    dont know anyone that has one!

    I'm guessing bandito has one as well…?

    grantway
    Member

    Bannaworld How much did it cost then!

    alankelly-what size is that inbred?

    bananaworld
    Member

    Take a peek at the supplier's website: http://www.ison-distribution.com/ison/english/product.php?part=HUROSHDK

    … and prepare to splutter on your cornflakes.

    Being a spanner-wielding greasy baboon in a bike shop meant I got mine at trade but it still hurt the pocket book somewhat. More than three years of fantastic service has more than convinced me it was money not pissed-up-teh-wall.

    grantway
    Member

    LOL Bananaworld Whats the mark up on that!
    Whats the lonevity of this product?
    How much to change hub bearings or can you?

    bananaworld
    Member

    Mine probably cost about five hundreds of your English pounds but the trade and retail prices have both rocketed recently (Euro-Pound exchange whatever?).

    Some say it's supposed to last for 100,000km but that's just speculation. I think it will last for A Very Long Time™.

    Here's a thread in which I questioned the Rohloff bearings: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=930.0. Be warned: during the thread there's a shedload of misinformation from deluded old skool tourers but it all comes together in the end.

    grantway
    Member

    Ok Kool mate
    km Whats that in miles shillings and sixpence 🙄

    Would it not be cheaper to go back to the old stermy archer
    pull gearing hub But keep the front mech?
    Certainly be miles cheaper and longer wearing.

    bananaworld
    Member

    A Very Long Time™ in miles? Erm, probably about twice around the Earth, riding through oceans included.

    THe bearings can be replaced and the hub can be overhauled: the chap in that thread I linked to who gave the bearing info has had his down to its component parts and back again – therefore the hub can last forever, hurrah!

    A SA and front mech setup would indeed be LOTS cheaper but wouldn't have even half the gear range of a Rohloff. I've tried an Alfine with a front mech but unless you have massively different chainrings the range is still limited.

    PLUS I hate front mechs so are one of my favourite reasons for having hub gears instead.

    Premier Icon ir_bandito
    Subscriber

    I have indeed got a Rohloff. Got fed-up with bike maintenance after my son was born: barely had time to ride, let alone fettle. So I sold my Heckler and most of the bits off my Voodoo and bought a Cotic Simple and Rohloff (both used)
    Rohloff cost £650 built onto a wheel, with all its gubbins.
    Cotic's track ends didn't really work with the speedbone, so sold that a few months ago and bought the Raven Enduro. But as I say, I'm having slight issues with the EBB aswell as the rack mounts. EBB is the best looking way of tensioning the chain, but it is a bit of faff when you do need to tighten it. Wouldn't mind seeing how the Sanderson system works.
    Problem with the Thorns (and the Sanderson Soloist) is the fork-length – I want capability of longer travel. I'm running 130mm Marzocchis on my Raven anyway, which slacken the head angle a lot, but I know the frame isn't designed to cope with the increased bending moment.

    Have you thought of getting a custom one? 😉

    PJay
    Member

    Well a Pipedream Sirius would have been ideal I’d have thought, but they only have 18″ left now. I think that the dropouts are Paragon Machine Works ones which have Rolhof specific inserts.

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