Altercations with motorists – what's your highest level?

Thankfully I’ve not had many, only one really stands out

Older bloke – 60 if i had to guess in a Passat. I was filtering up the inside and he deliberately edged over to trap me between his car and curb.

This pissed me off a bit. I think I shouted “Hey”. He crept along for a bit right against the curb even though the traffic ahead had started moving again.

So I rode round him on the outside and of course he sped up as soon as I got alongside matching my speed so I couldn’t get back in

This was all completely daft on my part as out sprinting an accelerating car on a Specialized Stumpjumper FSR that I was on that day was never a good idea. We exchanged shouts and gesticulations for about 100 metres before we both had to brake hard for the queue of traffic ahead and I got back behind him. As the traffic sped back up again I stayed behind him and didn’t try to pass him again. This didn’t stop him brake checking me though as the traffic started getting up to speed again.

Anyway on reflection it was pretty stupid of me to try and pass him. If I’d succeeded I’d have just had an angry arsehole driver behind me instead of in front

Still I’ve no idea to this day what I did to make him want to trap me against the curb in the first place

Only notable incident was being knocked off by a car turning across me *as it passed* into a parking space. No indicator, no obvious attempt to actually really get passed. Ended up with bike stuck in passenger door and me across bonnet. Large angry man got out spitting insults and tried to lamp me. I danced around a bit, guy in the following car got out and tried to calm situation, bloke smacked him, fella produced CID badge. Didn’t end well for him I was told.

And here I was thinking about cycling to work a couple of times a week.

Some of the stories in this thread are terrifying 😯

zippykona – Member

Those of you that resort to violence does it only happen on a bike or are you up for fisticuffs in non cycling situations?

Well, you could run an experiment couldn’t you? (But from a driver’s POV.)

Find a huge queue at the checkout in the supermarket. Barge to the front, possibly with a bit of pushing. See what happens. Probably depends on the shop, or even the town, but it probably won’t take long before ‘fisticuffs’ are introduced.

Walking along a pavement towards another pedestrian? Barge into them, shouting get out of my effing way. Again, see how long it takes before manners disappear.

It’s just that when cars are introduced then people think a different set of manners apply.

I was hit a few months ago.

I tried to be angry, but to be honest, I was in shock, then just very sad/disappointed that my bike was broken.

To be fair the guy was nice and also shocked. Admitted fault, drove me home and paid for the bike to be fixed.

Other than that, close calls are dealt with by head shaking or an open palmed “wtf” gesture. Don’t think I’d ever end up in a fight…

Well, you could run an experiment couldn’t you? (But from a driver’s POV.)

Find a huge queue at the checkout in the supermarket. Barge to the front, possibly with a bit of pushing. See what happens. Probably depends on the shop, or even the town, but it probably won’t take long before ‘fisticuffs’ are introduced.

Walking along a pavement towards another pedestrian? Barge into them, shouting get out of my effing way. Again, see how long it takes before manners disappear.

It’s just that when cars are introduced then people think a different set of manners apply.

That’s an odd post.

Overtaking is a common concept on the road. Are you suggesting that those not in a car shouldn’t be doing it?

I had a minor one on Sunday, riding through heavy traffic in Bury and there is a Lamborghini around making a lovely burbling noise so of course everyone is looking at the supercar. Driver in the outside/right turn lane is obviously too busy looking at the Lamborghini to bother getting into the straight on/left hand lane til its too late, so simply turns into me in the left hand lane.
I shouted “oi, f- off” and he stopped and went off on one about me swearing at him. I pointed out that he had almost driven over me, but that seemingly wasn’t as important as his being sworn at. He offered to get out and knock me out so I responded with “that’s fine, lets do that. This (points at bike computer) has a camera, so we can take it to the police can’t we?”
All said in a normal tone of voice, as soon as a camera was mentioned he shut up & drove off.
Of course, my GPS hasn’t got a camera but the mere idea was enough to defuse the situation without any more shouting or any silliness.

There does seem to be a general school of thought that, as a cyclist you are not worthy of a single iota of thought or courtesy from some drivers.

I got called a “white c**t” (apologies to the mods for filter avoidance, but it’s relevant) by a delivery van driver who was upset that I shook my fist at him (literally all I did) when he pulled out on me and almost knocked me off. I then took a photograph of his number plate and him on the phone when he stopped at the red light 50m up the road, he was even more upset at that and got out of his van and squared up to me so I calmly got off my bike with it inbetween us and told him to calm down until he got back in his van and drove off. He hadn’t seen the reason for my calmness which was the policeman on the pavement on the other side of the junction who I then went and spoke to who took a statement from me and the driver of the car behind him at the junction.

He didn’t bother turning up to court when he was charged with racially aggravated assault, was found guilty and fined £600, made to pay a £100 victim surcharge, given 6 points and given 200hrs of community service. In his interview (carried out at 3am after the police picked him up at home 30 mins earlier) which was read in court he denied calling me “white” and instead suggested that he had called me “British” – the magistrates suggested that in their opinion this was still racial assault.

Given that I still haven’t received the £100 victim surcharge almost 2 years later I would be surprised if he’s done his community service (he certainly hasn’t paid the fine as I’d get any money he paid first).

I’ve been forced to jump off the bike twice by drivers pulling in without looking. Both times I got very shouty, once the driver shouted back, the other time they looked like death and were very apologetic. After this I vowed to try to take a different approach.

This was tested last Thursday when I was doored, had to swing into the road and *just* brushed the corner of the car door with my shoulder, very, very close.

I swore and blasphemed loudly into the air. Took a second, and calmed. I asked the lady to promise to me she would always check her mirrors in future. She looked genuinely mortified and I think I may have actually done some good.

It’s difficult not to go postal when you’ve come so close to a very nasty accident.

Slight diversion, but Golf rage is another. I used to ride with a guy who was a big lad with a short fuse. We were on a common that has a golf course as well as bridleways and public footpaths. Suddenly this golf ball whistles right past my mates head. He pulls over and shouts at the golfer who starts mouthing off at him, “I shouted 4 you idiot” etc (from a distance). Anyway I lit the fuse when I pointed out that on Sunday afternoons golf is not permitted. He went sprinting over, demanding an apology and for him to get off the course. The guy wouldn’t apologise or leave, so my mate grabbed his bag, tipped it out and broke all his clubs over his knee while shouting ‘you might be next’. The guy was on his hands and knees begging not to be hurt, even trying to pay him not to hurt him!

I had a bad one last summer whilst out for a pootle on the CXer in Town.

Just out for a Hack up Lea Valley Canal, as you do. At the junction with the Rowing Club theres a road that heads up into Walthamstow Reservoirs.. So I turn off and head along the road and got to the Lights and stopped in the green box. A black Merc E Class pulled up and nudged me in the rear wheel and tried to edge me forward. I turned around to give the finger and politly tell the driver to back off to find the cars full of Red Necks and chuffing hardnuts. They kept nudging me forward until I got the message, then rode of left instead of going ahead and they followed me.. Thought they were going to try and nick my bike (happens up there) so I belted off and road along a footpath near the Mosque, and they bloody followed me… a chase ensued for what seemed like an age.

I have never ridden so fast or so bloody erratically or controlled in my life.. I ended up in some gawd forsaken back street panting and sweating near Bow. I must have ridden so hard it took less than 15mins to get all the way down back to Bow.

I should have Strava’d it.. 😯

Oh and not bike related, but I was once in the car park at Freshwater West, in my wetsuit applying wax to my surfboard when an old lady in a micra literally drove into the back of me (at about 3mph). Apparently I was using the parking space (which she wanted to use) for something other than parking a car and that wasn’t acceptable, so she decided to let me know this by driving into me. The mind boggles.

Around here, some person has introduced as I call it ” embarrassment rage ”

There is a large motorway roundabout that, quiet frankly, is a nightmare, it’s a spiral roundabout if anyone is familiar with the type. You get 3 types of driver, use it correctly, use it wrong because they don’t understand how it works, deliberate lane jumping.

Few weeks ago a sign appeared, looks professionally made. On the top is a number plate with a reg number in it. Under that it says ” get us all home safely, USE THE CORRECT LANE ON THE ROUNDABOUT”

Top marks to whoever it is as they must have been cut up by the car a few times. I actually saw the car in question on Monday as it has a private plate so is easy to remember and the girl driving looked like she fitted into the second type, not having a bloody clue…….

Done some very silly things when the red mist came down and I mostly regret them, including the one where I bounced my bike on the bonnet of a car that had run me of the road while telling me to do one (not his exact words). He then had to stop at the lights a short distance away, the cranks made a mess of his bonnet.
Had to stop losing it and just started doing a friendly wave to idiots whenever possible and it completely changed my commute enjoyment. Fun though that some folk can get a tad upset when you give them a friendly wave after they just nearly taken you out.
To be safe on said commute started walking down (on pavement) the line of traffic to very busy roundabout (Apollo Manchester), and using the crossings to get to the street I needed. This approach was much safer and quicker, on two consecutive days got a huge shouting at from the same driver. Even followed me down the street (and out of his way) to make sure I knew he was not happy. I tried to point it was safer for all concerned but no on he ranted, when I said heres my bike you ride across the roundabout then he suddenly saw the point. Used to see him most days with odd wave now and again. All very boring I know but at the time it seemed a bit surreal.

Ears and noses will be the trophies of the day

And here I was thinking about cycling to work a couple of times a week.

Just to clarify, I’ve cycled for 25 years and only had about four or five incidents. Only been touched by a car once.

Just remembered another though. Had a rolling Barney with a chap in Farnborough who had been aggressively zipping through busy traffic. He had to brake hard to avoid me at a mini roundabout, because he was going so fast. He was angry with me for not signalling, but I was going straight on…

in 2001 cycling through East London and had an old Mercedes car overtake me and suddenly turn left across me into a side street, causing me to brake hard to avoid a crash.

My reaction was to swear at him and give him the finger, he drove off (I realised against the traffic as it was a no-entrance into a one-way), I carried on riding.

I turned at the end of the road, and came back into Brick Lane to get bagels before work. About 1/2 way along Brick Lane I heard a roaring and saw the same Mercedes coming up very fast behind me.

I jumped onto the pavement as I realized he was not stopping, swerved to avoid some bollards, heard tires skidding and massive crunch as he braked before hitting a bollard on the pavement.

I stopped 50-60 feet down the road. Driver got out of his car, calmly walked around to the rear, opened the boot and I could hear metallic clicking noises.

Saw him coming around the front carrying a pipe (?), the driver looked just like the Scouser from Lock Stock & 2 smoking barrels with the perm.

I quickly realized he had a shotgun (!!) and managed to sprint off down the road before he got near, and rode down several side streets to lose him. I saw the car driving off a few minutes later, and came back to Brick Lane

2 german tourists flagged me down, had taken his number plate and photo using their nice camera, Police arrived, took statements.

I was called 2 days later to be told the car was stolen and had been used in an armed bank robbery in Manchester.

Lucky escape?? I’ve been very careful about who I get verbal with since…

Tend not to road ride these days if I can help it. I can go from mellow chilled out little taz to being scary enough to make a grown man cry and the rest of his mates in the car who thought throwing a full can of drink at my kidneys as they drove past was a good idea, lock the car doors and phone the police.

Strange thing is I look very unassuming and mild these days compared to my youth, so I must have a serial killer look ir something

If all drivers knew that this is what potentially awaits them if they knock someone off then cars might be driven more considerately! Not everyone’s in a position to dish it out though. Sadly.

I don’t advocate violence but this is exactly why drivers will often be quite happy putting a cyclist in danger, be aggressive or create conflict – they know there’s no way they’ll get hurt. If there was instant retribution you can bet drivers would be much better behaved.

I was assaulted in Midhurst, West Sussex by a motorist one Saturday morning who didn’t like the fact that a road bike was in front of him during heavy traffic/parked cars with no room to pass, we exchanged pleasantries, stopped to let him pass and he got out and pinned me against a wall! He didn’t reckon on the off-duty cop riding his bike the other way but my pre-emptive strike to kick him in the balls failed and just hit his fat-belly (witness didn’t see that bit!) and I got a smack for my troubles – he got a day in a cell and a £600 fine. I got a scar and broken sunnies!

An Army guy I know was tooted/yelled-at by 3 lairy builders in a tranny – he leant his bike on the front of the van and invited them to practise his unarmed combat skills. They locked the doors and called the police!

Tend to avoid confrontation these days, don’t ride on the road and see too many groups riding like knobs…

Given that I still haven’t received the £100 victim surcharge almost 2 years later

That’s normal. Victim surcharge doesn’t go to the victim in the case, it goes into a general fund which is used for victim help stuff and things (I have no idea what, probably victims with serious trauma etc). If you felt that you were entitled to damages you’d need to raise a civil case against the motorist separately, I think.

I remember one day a car overtook me then turned left into a parking spot. I slammed on the brakes and just missed the rear panel as I skidded to a halt. The drivers door opened, I took a deep breath and started “You…..”

“…..dozey **** bitch” said the builder in the van behind me. I rode off and left him to argue with her 😆

the thing is that car/van/wagon drivers are all wa.kers. Pity as I drive also like most of us cyclists.

It’s not the ones who knock you off the bike (happened twice in my 20+ years of commuting) – they are usually apologetic.
It’s the ones who blame you, or offer no apology for almost injuring you!

2 memorable ones- standing nose to nose with a bloke who “left-hooked” me- he stopped and got out when I shouted (sharp pointy object) at him. He actually looked scared and funny thing was a copper turned up before we could say or do anything!
The worst was a massive lorry (bin lorry I think) who actually hit my arm as he went past. Caught him a very short distance afterwards at the lights. Jumped on the cab and told him he’d hit me. Total denial. That could’ve been nasty as he obviously had no awareness of where his trailer finished! Called him some choice names.

I suppose the third is the one with the X6 I posted on here a year or so ago. Not sure what would have happened if I had been able to get to his door, but there was too much traffic.

I miss my commutes *sigh*. (I actually do miss them, a lot!)

Was actually my wife. I saw her sat in her car in stationary traffic so pulled up alongside to say a quick hello, like the considerate husband I am. Clearly took her by surprise and the dizzy cow then drove into me. Clearly she knows I’m worth more dead than alive.

Never got violent

But I have used weird words

Cycling to work I had a mother and daughter nearly take me out on an overtaking manovur. I caught up with mother at the next set of lights and even befor I could get a word in, she bombarded me with verbal abuse.

Without thinking I turned to the daughter sat in the car and simply said ‘do the world a favour and don’t grow up like your mum’

Then simply filtered to the front of the traffic lights and listened to the verbal bomb going off behind me 🙂

The only real incident that springs to mind was about ten years ago when I was commuting by motorbike from Chatham to London everyday with my then wife riding pillion.

It was on a 30mph single lane residential street. A car was legally parked in the oncoming lane causing an obstruction which meant oncoming traffic had to use ‘my’ lane. One car thought he’d be bullish and try to force me into the kerb but I held my ground and just approached slowly, as did he. He eventually stopped when his off side front wheel was on my foot. He was yelling at me to move out of the way totally oblivious to the fact I was stuck. My wife overheard me trying to tell the driver to roll forward and get off my foot at which point she jumped off the bike going mental. The driver didn’t know who to listen to – me politely asking him to move his car forward or my missus screaming like a banshee. She then starts banging on his bonnet and practically climbing on it thus adding weight to an already painful situation.

I managed to talk her off the car at which point the driver, in a moment of clarity, fecked off into the distance.

I learned a lot that day, not least that there’s no point lying under a car shouting “I’ve got right of way”.

There have been other situations but thankfully only harsh words were exchanged.

zippykona – Member
Those of you that resort to violence does it only happen on a bike or are you up for fisticuffs in non cycling situations?

Never been in a fight in my life. Generally known for being so laid back as to be practically horizontal. But have had the red mist several times while cycle-commuting. I think it’s the fact that as my normally cruisey life offers minimal risks, so when faced with a very real brush with – at best – nasty injuries, there’s a panicky fight-or-flight thing and occasionally something snaps.

On my commute there’s one place where morons try to overtake on a single lane (kerb on both sides) left-hand bend, 90 degrees with an inside radius of about 3 metres, round a massive tree. There’s no way in hell you can pass a cyclist there, but it doesn’t stop dickheads from trying, even when I’m in the primary position. On one such occasion the driver in question tailgated me (or whatever the equivalent is to someone on a bike) round the corner while leaning on the horn, aggressively overtook me way too close as soon as we were round the corner, then pulled into a company car park about 50m further on, so I followed. I stopped about 10 metres away, and took off the helmet and sunnies, so as not to appear aggressive. I asked politely her what that was all about, she ranted about me being in the way, making her late, thinking I own the road etc. I had the phone out, took a picture of her, then her number plate, told her to expect a call from the police, and rode off.

The car park she had pulled into was a lawyers’ chambers. They had a great website, with profiles of all their staff, including photos. So I found out her name, emailed all the partners of her law firm, copying in every single staff member (after working out the format of their email addresses), telling them about her quality driving, her response, how well it reflected on them as a company etc. etc. It gives me a warm feeling inside when I think of her next performance review…

It amuses me how laughing at irate motorists often makes them explode with rage, so I do, every time the opportunity presents itself! Also sticking your tongue out at them has a similar effect, or blowing a kiss to a WVM or some tracksuited yob.

It sometimes takes less than that: yesterday, a minibus pulled out on me at a roundabout, saw me late, then stopped. I shook my head at the driver and carried on. She pulled alongside me further down the road and wanted a word, utterly insistent that she’d done nothing wrong. I suggested that the white line painted on the road was a clue, but this made no difference to her.

I smashed the side window of a car with my cosh, dragged out the driver out and beat him senseless. Then I opened his chest with my house key and ate his heart at the side of the road to absorb his strength.
It was delicious and saved me the price of a Mcmuffin.al

punched someone’s wing mirror off.
bitch deserved it.

On the other hand… once when in the car with my wife and son in the car, we were heading to the post depot to collect a parcel. On the minor approach to a T-intersection, the main road has a solid median. It allows a two-stage right turn: cross the nearside lane into a central merge lane, and then then merge left into the far lane over about 80m. You can’t turn right into the minor road, so nothing to give way to from the left (for the first part of the manoeuvre).

I slowed, saw a platoon of cars approaching from the right, but with a bit of a gap before them. From the left was a car followed by a motorbike. So I pulled out into the central lane, rather than wait ages for the platoon of vehicles from the right. Very safe, loads of time. I then cruised along the central lane at about 20km/h (limit being 50km/h), expecting the car and motorbike to my left to continue on at their steady 50km/h, and I’d pull in behind, since there was nothing behind them. Easy peasy.

Except the biker slowed. His front wheel was not far off level with my rear bumper (but we’re still in separate lanes at this point, with a small kerb median between us, and he’s slowed right into my blind spot). I’m trying to see what he’s up to, whether he’s letting me in or trying to pass or what. He’s too close for me to merge, he’s not backing off but he’s not passing me either. We’re rapidly running out of roadspace at the merge. I slowed slightly to let him through, but he did the same thing, then we sped up a bit, slowed again. Bloody shambles. In the end I’d slowed to a walking pace and he refused to pass me so I sped up to 50 and claimed the gap. He was furious, came alongside me waving a fist and shouting. But we were coming up to a zebra crossing with a central refuge so he had to drop back, then there was oncoming traffic so he couldn’t do it again but he was gesticulating and shouting still. I was taking the next left to the post place, so I wound down the window and pointed over the roof to him to turn left. He followed me through the car park (right to the far end, going appropriately slowly through the car park 🙂 ).

He started giving me the “what the eff was that all about? Pulling out on me, why weren’t you looking ranty ranty shout shout” spiel. I told him that I knew he was there; I didn’t pull into his lane, I pulled into the middle lane, and was going loads slower than him; and if he’d just carried on at a steady speed he’d have passed me in about 2 seconds. The confusion arose because he braked hard and shadowed me on my bumper, too close for me to safely pull in.

At that point his body language changed slightly and I could see he knew I was right, but he didn’t want to lose face, so he kept ranting but said how he’d almost been knocked off in similar circumstances the day before, how could he have known that I’d seen him etc. etc.

I explained that I cycle through that intersection every day on the way to work, I know what it’s like. I’m very aware of how vulnerable me and you are on the roads, I wasn’t going to hit you under any circumstances, it was just a miscommunication, and so on, and that seemed to calm him down. We ended up shaking hands and going on our separate ways.

Goes to show how a simple misunderstanding can escalate.

[edit: jeez, that was a long post, stream-of-consciousness – sorry!)

Goes to show how a simple misunderstanding can escalate.

Like the bloke I shouted at because he looked as if he was pulling out across my path (from my right). He was actually turning left but hadn’t bothered indicating.

From me? Punching people back. Against me? Got knocked off/bike run over by someone for having a go at him for knocking me with his wing mirror on his way past 50m earlier.

Bit more chilled out these days, but I will confront people that do really dangerous stuff.

Been years (maybe 10) since I had a proper altercation – that was on a 3-lane-wide, uphill one way street in the city centre. I was in the middle of the rightmost lane, as I was turning right down a lane further ahead, just prior to a set of lights.

Traffic was fairly busy, the distant lights had just gone red, I was approaching the lane but hadn’t yet signalled I was going to turn. A car sat inches behind me with his clutch in, roaring the engine and sounding the horn. As I was about to signal, the driver lurched out to the left, passed me closely, still sounding the horn, then immediately dived back in right in front of me, slamming on his brakes right at the entrance to the lane. I stopped but before I could say anything, he was out of the car storming towards me, demanding to know why I wasn’t on the left hand side. “Because I’m turning in there,” I replied, pointing at the lane.

He was obviously intent on smacking me (despite me being taller and a good bit stronger-looking, not to mention considerably more handsome), so I got off my bike as he approached, telling me how he was going to take my bike off me and f’ing batter me etc. I told him where to go and he took a swing at me, but I managed to lift the bike up between us and he punched somewhere around the pedal then started screaming and holding his hand. Total nutcase. Realised I had nothing to gain here, so pointed out the lights were green, got on my bike and went down the lane.

If someone does something stupid that endangers me, then I’ll get indignant and angry but not to the point where violence is on the cards. People do make mistakes, some people are just poor drivers and IMO pointing out dangerous acts in as calm and non-threatening a way as possible is the best approach. I’ll happily approach a driver’s window with “hi mate, don’t know if you realised but back there…” without shouting or anything, I’ve had surprisingly positive exchanges like that. Never, ever swear if you can avoid it and if someone’s swearing at you, politely asking them to stop swearing at you is often quite effective in calming things.

In rare instances, where someone’s been deliberately aggressive or dangerous, I’ve opened the rear door (on a van) or the rear offside passenger door (on a car) and said nothing, but you need to be certain you can continue your ride without them having to chance to come up behind you in a few hundred yards’ time!

I had a woman try twice to hoik me over the kerb in Brentford by MaccyD. At the Kew Bridge lights I cruised up, tapped on the window and asked her what that was all about. Her answer was that “I wasn’t cycling in the cycle lane”. Its a double yellow line for no parking. So I told her my helmet light was a video camera and she’d be on YouTube, which she really didn’t like because it was apparently “against her human rights”.

Overtaking is a common concept on the road. Are you suggesting that those not in a car shouldn’t be doing it?

Overtaking slower moving vehicles on open road is one thing. Pulling into a left turn lane at traffic lights to go straight ahead and get one or two cars in front, or taking the ‘wrong’ lane down queueing traffic and forcing your way back in is something different. Frequently done in a car but you it’s not acceptable to form a second queue at a supermarket checkout and force your way to the belt.

I was cycling from work, heading up to Richmond Park. It was dark, and a van came up behind me. I could see another cyclist coming the other way, and as the road is quite narrow I was surprised to hear the van accelerate to overtake me.

As he sped past, the other cyclist had no choice but to just head off-road, while shouting loudly. The van carried on, and after briefly checking the cyclist was ok (he was), I chased the van, knowing that the gate to the park would be shut. Sure enough the van was attempting to do a 3 point turn when I arrived. I rode up and banged on his window. As the window came down I was dismayed to see a huge, angry looking eastern European builder in it. Nevertheless, I (possibly a little more quietly than I originally intended) shouted “Did you see what you did? You ran the guy off the road!” He shouted back that the cyclist had no lights. I said that wasn’t the point, and he was driving like a maniac.

At this point the door opened, so I got off the bike, expecting to get be ducking punches. He came over, and then said that he agreed, he’d been driving like an idiot. We shook hands and went our separate ways, while I frantically tried to stop my heart from tearing through my ribcage.

simons_nicolai-uk – Member

Overtaking is a common concept on the road. Are you suggesting that those not in a car shouldn’t be doing it?

Overtaking slower moving vehicles on open road is one thing. Pulling into a left turn lane at traffic lights to go straight ahead and get one or two cars in front, or taking the ‘wrong’ lane down queueing traffic and forcing your way back in is something different. Frequently done in a car but you it’s not acceptable to form a second queue at a supermarket checkout and force your way to the belt.

I’m glad someone understood what I meant. 😆

Anyone know Stainburn Forest in that Yorkshire? Sure you do.

Well theres a lane running through that from Beckwithshaw village and then onto Swinsty Forest/Reservoir.

Just be careful of the Farm on the tight slightly uphill bend, theres a Woman in a Freelander that thinks the Lanes hers, and hers alone.. 😆