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  • Alpine 160 – DHX 3 coil shock or RP23, what would you do?
  • drunkenmonkey
    Free Member

    Considering buying an Alpine 160 which comes as standard with a DHX 3, I’ve only ridden air shocks previously and wondered how differently it would ride…..

    thomthumb
    Free Member

    coil – can’t see the benifit of air over 120mm really.

    although will you use the rp23 propedal?

    drunkenmonkey
    Free Member

    I certainly thought the propedal would get used, not sure how the alpine 160 pedals uphill, need to get a test ride in.

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    brakes
    Free Member

    what kind of riding do you do?
    if the bike will get some abuse, you don’t mind the additional weight and you want something to fit an forget – get a coil
    if you want small bump sensitivity, are conscious of weight, don’t mind blowing through travel on bigger hits and maintain your bike well – get the air shock

    I like the idea of air shocks, but much prefer the feel and response of a coil shock

    Rorschach
    Free Member

    You can get an on\off pro pedal lever (same as 09 dhx air) for dhx coils now.

    AndyPaice
    Free Member

    A mate has just got one two days ago. He has the RP23 fitted, and has previously been riding a patriot freeride with a 5th Element coil shock. Two rides in two days on rocky dark peak trails and he says it rides just like the patriot, but a lot lighter and faster. I’ve had a bounce on it and the propedal effect is noticable and is useful for uphils to stop bobbing.

    geetee1972
    Free Member

    The coil damper will add about one kilo in weight depending on the weight of the spring you need (the heavier you are the heavier the spring needs to be). But it will improve the rear wheels ability to maintain contact with the ground. That translates into grip and control, which will give you more confidence to go faster. It’s a little more complicated than that, but ultimately that’s what suspension is about.
    If you want to make the best use of the 160mm travel on offer, then a coil would be the way to go.
    You could argue, that if you want the Alpine 160, then by definition, you want it to be a coil damper not an air damper, i.e. if you’re concerned about weight and pedaling performance, then perhaps you don’t actually want 160mm of travel. Notice I use the word ‘want’ and not ‘need’ – I don’t think that ‘need’ has anything to do with it. As always it’s a trade off.
    But here’s an interesting thing – in this month’s issue of Dirt there is a small byline about the Cane Creek Double Barrell coil damper that the Dirt team has just fitted to the Orange Five. In the same issue they test a three different 160mm+ bikes, including the Alpine 160, and yet they state that they get faster times down their down hill test track on the Five with the Cane Creek than they do with any of the three 160mm+ freeride bikes (all of which also had coil dampers).

    thomthumb
    Free Member

    they state that they get faster times down their down hill test track on the Five with the Cane Creek than they do with any of the three 160mm+ freeride bikes

    perhaps they need a harder test course? (i have necer seen the course)

    geetee1972
    Free Member

    You can see it in Earthed Five – I assume it’s the one they refer to as ‘The 1.04’ so called because that was the best time they could get out of it, at least before they started getting the pro downhillers on it. Sam Hill eventually did it in under 58 seconds. From the video it looks reasonably rocky for most of its length.

    thisisnotaspoon
    Free Member

    I think they use a few, they teste a marin 120 a few motnhs back on one of the old dragon courses, must have been a failry smooth one as they said it was almost (to within a second i think) of the time they get onn DH bikes.

    Way back when they re-launched and were tryign out different ways of testing the bikes, they published times for each bike down a test track (presumably the 1:04 as thats what the times were). Interestingly they found that a 8″ travel giant faith with tripple clamp forks was only a second faster than a commencal (whatever the 6″ mini DH was called at the time). My conclusion from reading that was a fast rider is a fast rider, and anything else is just incramental. I’m guessing dirt have had a lot of practice time on the five as well. Odly they published the climbing times as well, the lighter bikes just about equaled the hardtail benchmark, the giant was wayyyyyyyyyyyy down.

    Another example, Peaty, went form an aproximatley linear single pivot, to a super progressive VPP and doesnt seem to be any better/worse.

    As a contradiction, dont the Athertons recon the new frame is a good few seconds up on the old one?

    brakes
    Free Member

    they’re no quicker, the world is just rotating faster

    drunkenmonkey
    Free Member

    Idiot question perhaps but what’s the difference between a shock with a linear feel and that of a more progressive one. How does this come about and what type of shock deliver’s which style. How does this effect your riding?

    thisisnotaspoon
    Free Member

    ohh big question!

    progressive just means that its easy to squash at the begining, and harder at the end (so harder to bottom out). The old V10 started at 1:1 and ends at 3:1.

    linnear means its just as easy to squash the last bit as it is the first. So for example the ratio of travel to shock stroke would be 2.5:1 the whole way.

    Obviously its not set in stone, a lot of designs are quite linear then ramp up at the last moment to prevent the shock bottoming out harshly.

    Air shocks tend to be progressive, as the volume decreaces throught he stroke, but can also be quite regressive in the mid stoke. This is because initialy the shocks held up by seal friction as well as air pressure, and at the end its held up by air pressure, but once the frictions broken, but before its ramped up they tend to have a bit of a hammock shaped spring curve.

    Coil shocks are more linear, as they all run some form of de-carbon(the shock shaft displaces oil, which squeezes the air) style system with a pressurised resevoir (just about everything).

    downsides of prgressive designs are, they hurt your arms more (big hits tend to through your weight forewards). And the damper is working in less than ideal conditions, you relay want a lot of damping control at the begining of the stroke to give you grip, but in fact the shock is barely moving. to get arround this Santa cruz/intense etc use massiiveeeee shocks to keep the leverage ratio sensible at the start.

    Progressive damping is a whole other ball game! lots of high speed daming and no low speed (ignoring rebound) will give no sensitivity to rocks, but will suck up drops etc. The opposite will give it a trap door feel, with nothing happening then all the tavel going at once.

    simonm
    Free Member

    Well, I may help from experience. I’ve got a Alpine 160 and I’ve got both a DHX3 and RP23 shocks for it. I prefer the ride of the RP23 for Peak type rides than the DHX. If I’m off to Wharncliffe for a day then I put the coil shock on thats better for lumpier stuff.
    Strangly… I’ve found the air shock more linear with a plusher feel than the DHX 3 has. Maybe thats as the DHX3 has propedal set on all the time whereas the RP23 I clack flick it on or off.

    BTW, I picked up the DHX3 for £100 and bought the Alpine with the RP23 (which is big can type btw)

    GaryLake
    Free Member

    How do Peaty’s times stack up when he was on Orange and Santa Cruz then? I suppose you’ll never know whether the SC is actually no faster, or if it is faster but he’s older and slower now.

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