Is anyone making an alloy trail bike frame that weighs a reasonable amount? A Transition Scout weighs over 9lbs with the shock. I’m sure it’s super tough, but I’m not an aggressive rider, hooning off big jumps in BC (or anywhere else). I had an Intense Tracer that weighed 5.5lbs with the shock back in the day. Who makes a frame that’s somewhere in between? I’m over carbon, frankly.

Transition are known for heavy frames.

Have you checked many other brands?

What sort of travel do you want/need for it ?

Sonder Evol is 3.5kg w. Shock in Large according to the website. Under 8lbs.

Durability – mountain bikes get hucked / jumped / batter rock gardens / generally a hard life.

Frames breaking is worse for reputation and business than uber light weight – see 1990’s CrackAndFail references.

Also Mondbreaker! Loved my 2010 Foxy until the cracks started appearing.

My own view on this is because LLS style geometry and longer travel engenders a more aggressive and faster riding style, frames have been beefed to limit failures and make them adequately stiff.

Same is true for carbon bikes if you look. They can be built light, and some are, but most have more material in them these days.

Would LLS geometry increase the forces on the headtube?  Seems to it would because of the angles involved meaning the forces are acting further from the vertical adding more bending forces.

Frames used to break a lot more than they do now. Combine that with longer reaches, longer A2C measurements and bigger wheels and you’ve got more leverage on the frame so you need more stiffness too. And the modern geometry and generally better suspension means more of us can ride faster so the forces are higher.

The Liteville 301 is the lightest ~160mm travel alloy frame I can think of. They’re on the Mk15.3 now but the Mk15 was apparently 2760g plus shock in a medium.

Nicolai Saturn also reasonably lightweight.

If you don’t want an aggressive bike then why would you be looking at an aggressive bike such as the Scout? Other styles of bike are avaialble!

What you probably want is now known as a ‘downcountry’ bike.

Orange’s alloy frames are very light, for their intended purpose.

I think the OP is working off a sample of one frame though.

[Pedant]All metal frames are alloy, you mean aluminium[/Pedant]

130-140mm (wish) of travel, XC-ish trail. Surrey Hills, occasional BPW (Blue/Red), Afan, Cwm Carn. No big jumps. Ibis Ripmo AF is 8.5lbs with shock, apparently. Ripley AF is claimed at 7.45lbs. Much more reasonable, but a touch too little travel.

European construction standards got tougher a few years ago with some really hefty leverage tests to pass. Stronger = thicker = heavier.

Yeah, thanks for that @thepodge

Would LLS geometry increase the forces on the headtube?

The biggest thing will be more aggressive riding. 15 years ago, an XC suspension bike generally had 80 mm travel front and rear and a robust trail bike had 130 mm or so. Now, XC bikes often have 120 mm and trail bikes 150 mm. People are riding much rougher trails and the bikes need to be more robust.

Also Intense had a rep for breaking…

Dunno what sort of thing you’re after but I got a 2016 Trance frame for comfort, cos I’m old, and I was surprised at how light it is. It doesn’t feel that much heavier than the Switchback it’s (currently, my mood may shift again!) replacing.

XC-ish trail

Yeah you don’t want a trail bike, you want downcountry. The category has been created exactly for your needs. Light weight frames, more trail-like geometry.

https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/buyers-guides/best-downcountry-mountain-bikes/

Transition Spur is mentioned here if you want to compare with the Scout.

You could try Bird. My large AM9 snuck in under 8lbs with an air shock fitted so I guess their shorter travel models will be lighter than that.

Longer reach and slacker head angles mean increased stress at the head tube. Bikes are just generally more capable with bigger wheels, tyres and brakes. Specialized Chisel is a nice light frame.

They all seem to be getting heavier, nukeproof mega has put half a pound on, its not just people who’ve gained weight during the pandemic, and all alternatives seem to be heavier, I’m struggling to find a new frame I like, there’s niggling little things that put me off everything out there, then there’s the availability issue if I do find something that ticks all the boxes.

As Kayla, anything from giant is likely to be a light frame for its purpose. The trance is a lovely bike.

Also you’re looking at bikes with 1.5lb plus of shock on them, that’s going to make a fair chunk of difference from your old inline rp2 or what ever was on the intense.

Oh and manufacturers lie less* about weight these days** and instead of weighing an unpainted XS frame they usually pick a medium at last not.

*Still tend to be optimistic at best but not outright fabricated.
**Because outside of competitive XC no-one chooses a bike based on weight (within reason) any more as it’s a great way to buy a rubbish bike.

You could try Bird. My large AM9 snuck in under 8lbs with an air shock fitted so I guess their shorter travel models will be lighter than that.

I understand the Aether 9 is lighter still, with travel more akin to what the OP is looking for.

oranges are quite light for alu bikes. pivots and bearings and the housing for them adds quite a bit of weight so the single pivot design is beneficial.
stage 5 evo? there was a thread on here recently

Specialized Chisel – 1400g. Legs as suspension. 🙌🙂

All jokes aside. Carbon Trek Fuel Ex frame.

Ah but the OP is over carbon, I assume because they’ve previously had very light frames which exploded into a thousand pieces.

On alloy and aggressive most frames these days are heavier than older ones.

I’ve got a Transition Sentinel alloy – there’s no doubting that Transition are built strong – but it is heavy. The Bird Aether 7 frame I had before was a chunk lighter – even with a coil shock on it vs the air shock on my Sentinel.

I think your description is a mixture of riding – I think ‘downcountry’ or short travel trail is what you’re after. I think with technical surrey hills stuff / some BPW and bigger rougher stuff I’d aim more trail.

Alloy limits the choices but I think I’d consider the following:

Nukeproof Reactor 275 / 290

Bird Aether 7 / 9

Sonder Cortex (maybe a bit shorter travel / lighter duty)

Giant Trance

Trek Fuel alloy

Vitus Mythique? There was a big fuss about these a few years ago but not seen anything of them since then

The new Kingdom Void 130 is 3.05kg (claimed) without shock (size medium) It’s alloy, just not Aluminium alloy…with a fox DPS shock at around 300g, frame and shock should sneak under 7.5lb in old money.
https://kingdombike.com/pages/the_void_trail130

Alloy =/= heavy

130-140mm (wish) of travel, XC-ish trail. Surrey Hills, occasional BPW (Blue/Red), Afan, Cwm Carn. No big jumps. Ibis Ripmo AF is 8.5lbs with shock, apparently. Ripley AF is claimed at 7.45lbs. Much more reasonable, but a touch too little travel.

In true STW-recommend-what-you-have style: Nicolai Saturn 14.

I was too hasty/excited building mine and didn’t weigh my XL frame, claimed weight is 2.90kg/6.4lb for a medium. Replaced a Tallboy 3 CC frame which I weighed at 2.65kg/5.9lb in XL. With identical components there’s 880g difference Tallboy vs Saturn 14 in the built up weight, both XL frames. Not bad given posh carbon vs alu and the size/amount of material involved in the longer Saturn 14 frame and a heavier piggyback shock.

I’ve swapped both my carbon MTBs to alloy ones in the past 6 months, but material choice is purely coincidental. Carbon vs alloy I couldn’t give two hoots about – geometry/fit/ride much more important.

In true STW-recommend-what-you-have style: Nicolai Saturn 14.

There you go, that looks bob on (I always forget about Nicolai. Silly of me). Thanks @a11y

There you go, that looks bob on (I always forget about Nicolai. Silly of me)

Sorry this might not help:

There’s also the Saturn 11 which is much more XC but is lighter, and in the other direction there’s the ST version of the Saturn 14 with reinforced tubing (and IIRC 300g or so heavier) to allow a longer fork. Chuffed with mine.

130-140mm (wish) of travel, XC-ish trail. Surrey Hills, occasional BPW (Blue/Red), Afan, Cwm Carn. No big jumps. Ibis Ripmo AF is 8.5lbs with shock, apparently. Ripley AF is claimed at 7.45lbs. Much more reasonable, but a touch too little travel.

I’ve got a Ripmo AF and for any of the riding types you mention I’d be on my steel hardtail and the Ripmo will be left behind (except from BPW!). It’s a beast of a thing that is suited to enduro riding. It’s smashing PBs on technical stuff that I’d set on a Whyte G-160 with a 180mm fork. It is a big, heavy beast but still pedals very well.

The Ripley AF should be ideal for mostly XC with some bigger stuff chucked in IMO.

A set of light weight wheels with fast rolling tyres would make significantly more difference to the ride than a couple of pounds either way on the frame…