"All mountain" – what does it mean when translated to drop to flat height?

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  • "All mountain" – what does it mean when translated to drop to flat height?
  • Premier Icon Hooter
    Subscriber

    So I scouted out the new-ish free-ride bit at Llandegla on Sunday, taking chicken runs around anything which looked like it had a dodgy landing, except the last 2′ drop to flat which I didn’t see coming. Once me bruised ribs have recovered (still hurts to laugh), I’m thinking I’d have a go at the 2′ and 3′ drops on that trail. So I think I’ve got the bottle and skills, I’ve got some body armour, but what are the chances of breaking my bike – brand new 5 spot with revelations? What does all this Trail vs All Mountain vs Freeride bikeyness mean when you translate it to vertical drops? Trail = 2′, All Mountain = 3′, Freeride = 5′?????

    BTW Any hints and tips for landing bigger drops like this? (Except for the obvious keep the front wheel up, I’ve already clocked that one 😉 )

    cynic-al
    Member

    Here’s a guide to the international industry standards from
    http://www.mountainbike_industry_standards.com/can_my_bike_cope?/drops.

    Race – guaranteed for 0-6″ drops.
    Trail – 0.6″ – 2′
    All mountain – 2′ – 5′
    Freeride – 5′ – 10′
    DH – 10′ to infinity.

    Seriously, your bike will be fine.

    warpcow
    Member

    I clicked the link thinking it sounded too ridiculous to be true 😳

    Premier Icon richmtb
    Subscriber

    Well Danny Mac can do 10′ drops on a hardtail.

    More to do with how you land than the bike, although longer travel does give you a bigger margin for error

    ooOOoo
    Member

    How accurately did you measure these drops? Sounds like only to the nearest foot, which is just not accurate enough to give an opinion, sorry.

    Body armour for a 2 or 3ft drop?

    You do realise that your office chair is ~2ft high?

    I’d maybe considder wearing the full face if I was planning on spending a whole day playing arround, and I’m usualy the over cautious one in the group when it comes to armour/helmets!

    Mister P
    Member

    You have to take into account the gravitational field at the altitude of the drop. If my very rusty physics knowledge is correct you could do a larger drop at higher altitude than at sea level and still be ok.

    You have to take into account the gravitational field at the altitude of the drop. If my very rusty physics knowledge is correct you could do a larger drop at higher altitude than at sea level and still be ok.

    True, but have you taken into account the thinner air offering less bouyancy and resistance resulting in you falling quicker? Think Skydive Vs HALO jump.

    Premier Icon Hooter
    Subscriber

    Lol @cynical (As if the industry would ever agree on any kind of standards, they can’t even agree on headset sizes anymore it seems :-))

    …and yes, sadly body armour, once u hit 40 it hurts a lot more when u stack 🙁

    Ax3M4n
    Member

    Mister P – Member
    You have to take into account the gravitational field at the altitude of the drop. If my very rusty physics knowledge is correct you could do a larger drop at higher altitude than at sea level and still be ok.

    This is utter bollocks – Gravity is the same at any altitude (unless you are in deep space beyond the earths gravitational sphere of influence).

    legend
    Member

    Unless you ride trials dropping to flat is sh*t! Find one onto a nice downslope if you plan on practising.

    cynic-al
    Member

    Sorry Ax3m4n, he is correct!

    Gravity exerts a weaker force on me when I stand on my desk! Not by much of course…

    …..surely?!?!

    Well Danny Mac can do 10′ drops on a hardtail.

    Who was the guy who rode for Planet-X and now works for them? From Leeds IIRC. There was a pic of him doing 14ft drops to flat on a hardtail with snapped seatstays!

    it hurts a lot more when u stack

    From 2ft, I’d not call it a stack, more trip, or stumble?

    _tom_
    Member

    For the drops, push off the lip.

    Don’t hang off the back. Used to do this and always felt out of control on the landing.

    t_i_m
    Member

    a 5 spot will be fine for those drops. should be ok for up to 6 foot depending on rider weight and landing technique.
    Drop to flat is easier if you’re carrying some speed.
    Def worth padding up if you’re not comfortable with it.
    Practice dropping small steps/kerbs/features to ensure that you’ve got the techique nailed. i.e. taking off level and landing flat.
    Worth checking that your shock pressures aren’t too slack, so you dont blow through the travel too quickly in case of a dodgy landing.

    Premier Icon Hooter
    Subscriber

    I’m not trolling, I’m just a bit neurotic 😉

    Seriously I find it kind of funny how the industry throws all these marketing terms at us, but never quite quantifies what they mean, thought it might make an amusing discussion thread 🙂

    Mister P
    Member

    “Gravity decreases with altitude, since greater altitude means greater distance from the Earth’s centre. All other things being equal, an increase in altitude from sea level to the top of Mount Everest (8,850 metres) causes a weight decrease of about 0.28%”

    Although my original comment was very much tongue in cheek if you didn’t realise 😉

    toys19
    Member

    This is utter bollocks – Gravity is the same at any altitude (unless you are in deep space beyond the earths gravitational sphere of influence).

    No it isn’t. Gravity varies as the inverse square of the distance between the two objects. What is utter bollocks is the phrase “Earth’s gravitational sphere of influence” are you sure you haven’t confused Physics with psychics?

    Premier Icon john
    Subscriber

    Gravity varies as the inverse square of the distance between the two objects

    This is true, and actually causes crashes – on uneven ground, the presence of small but very close lumps of rock causes overall gravity to exert a force slightly off-vertical. These ‘gusts’ of gravity cause many crashes. That’s why long travel suspension helps – you start off higher up, so the gravity fluctuations are reduced.

    Morris
    Member

    Hooter – Member

    I’m not trolling, I’m just a bit neurotic

    Seriously I find it kind of funny how the industry throws all these marketing terms at us, but never quite quantifies what they mean, thought it might make an amusing discussion thread

    I agree, I’m a bit clueless when it comes to this. Downhill and XC I can get my head around. Makes me laugh though when people start saying agressive XC. I just have the image of someone riding a bridleway shouting their mouth off at sheep and happy slapping ramblers. 😀

    toys19
    Member

    Also some larger rocks attract you towards them.. This happens a lot in rivers whilst canoeing, a wide open river with a rock sticking up in the middle will always have a few canoes stuck to it.

    jedi
    Member

    freeride= riding your bike in a non competitive enviroment 🙂

    DrRSwank
    Member

    For a flat-to-flat drop I’d reckon anything the same size as you is the cut off between AM and DH.

    Premier Icon Hooter
    Subscriber

    Yeah, like free climbing, where you actually go outside rather than down the nice safe indoor climbing wall :-)) Climbing is also a sport where large rocks cause a lot of attraction…

    Lionheart
    Member

    As a daily off road rider, (rarely ever see a mountain so can’t call it Mountain Biking!) and weekend kayaker, I am laughing my way through the gravity comments above.
    Wave to Jedi, shoulder mending so hoping to book soon.

    toys19
    Member

    Lionheart, you will know all about those “magnetic rocks” that drag unsuspecting kayakers in to their potential well..

    jedi
    Member

    drops to flat on a man made trail = 🙁

    5lab
    Member

    If they are drops to flat are you sure you’re not just riding them too slow? Normally trails are built with some sort of transition, so if you’re going quickly the drop is to a nice downslope?

    I’ve done 6′ drops to flat on a hardtail. It was very unplesant, but the bike was fine. MTFU 🙂

    Wow, is physics or marketing more confusing?

    Hooter and Morris – dont worry too much about categories, just ride your bikes, you know, like you did when you were kids and you’d never heard of All Mountain or Aggressive Trail riding. You could do jumps on a Tomahawk and also use it to ride to the shops or your mates on the road. You didnt have a clue about the diameter of your tyres or your head tube angle. It just worked and was fun!

    PS – I’m as much a sucker for this bumf as the next man by the way.

    toons
    Member

    If the 5 spot can handle this, I don’t think you’ll have a problem.


    5 spot drop by james_ferguson, on Flickr


    5 spot drop 1 by james_ferguson, on Flickr

    Ax3M4n
    Member

    I stand by what I say… I didn’t go into exponential mathematics for the sake of the uneducated but… with the size and mass of the earth (density is a factor), you would have to be a few hundred thousand miles beyond the moon to experience any significant drop in gravitational pull from the earth. The inverse square law is a curve, but on the grand scale of planetary dimensions, that curve is effectively flat for ten’s of thounds of miles upwards (or outwards to be precise).

    I’m just bored really…. work’s a drag.

    Premier Icon Hooter
    Subscriber

    toons, thanks for the pix, that makes me feel a lot better. Then again, you don’t get to see what happened when he landed do you? OMG maybe the forks snapped or something…did I say I was neurotic? 😉

    ooOOoo
    Member

    any significant drop

    tomatoes, to may toes…..let’s call the

    Premier Icon Hooter
    Subscriber

    BTW lovin the trollin Ax3M4n, the earth’s radius is about 6000 km 🙂

    toys19
    Member

    I stand by what I say… I didn’t go into exponential mathematics for the sake of the uneducated but… with the size and mass of the earth (density is a factor), you would have to be a few hundred thousand miles beyond the moon to experience any significant drop in gravitational pull from the earth. The inverse square law is a curve, but on the grand scale of planetary dimensions, that curve is effectively flat for ten’s of thounds of miles upwards (or outwards to be precise).

    More Psychics, as the whole thing is dependant on the difference between the attracting masses…

    Ax3M4n
    Member

    LOL!! What we’re we talking about again? Flat drops or something?

    toys19
    Member

    No we are talking about taking the mickey out of you! Of course it makes eff all difference but its actually because of the difference in masses that it makes no appreciable difference, and the fact that the earth is 4000miles in diameter and even at everest you are only 4037 miles so the difference between the two distance is eff all. but if you went 4000 miles off the earths surface then the gravitational force is about a 1/4 of that on the earths surface..

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