Looking at getting a custom built All Mountain bike from Ubyk and torn between the Ibis Mojo HD and the Santa Cruz Nomad Carbon…..thoughts.

http://www.ubyk.co.uk/probuild/frame.php/all-mountain/2

Smart website…..

Id have a Mojo HD but then i already have an SL so im biased

Thanks titusrider,
What HD do you have and what forks do you recommend?

I just bought up a Intense Carbine @ 28 lbs with 32 talas & reverb with a xo/xt mixture.I love it quick on the ups even quicker on way down.Similar build price to your choices but in my eyes better looking.Bought mine from Bikeactive in Essex very pleased with service & very prompt delivery.

Have you ridden either? which did you prefer?

If the Mojo HD is the one that can be converted between 140mm and 160mm (sure i have seen someone on here with a mojo that they swap shocks and forks on for different riding) that would be a very big plus point in my book.

Sorry I have an SL but i would have the HD because I love the sus action and the look. As above i think the 140mm – 160mm shock plates are a big plus point for uk use.

In terms of forks I swap my 140mm SL between 140mm 32 floats and 160mm 36 Vans

On an HD though i would have BOS Devilles no question (even it it took extra saving up)

I had this same dilemma early last year. I couldn’t make my mind up between the Nomad or a Blur LTc. I went for a HD instead so that I had the option of building two different styles of bike setting it at either 140 or 160. I have it set at 140 with a 150 fork, it’s my main bike so 160 for my general riding would be a bit OTT.

A lot will depend on how you expect your suspension to work and what bike you’ve been used to riding previously. I came from using an Intense Tracer (VPP) which used its travel more readily than the DW link HD. To be honest I wasn’t sure if I liked the change but now I wouldn’t go back. It isn’t as smooth on the smaller stuff but it soon opens up on rougher, rockier terrain. I prefer this as with it being my main bike it doesn’t feel like I’m too over biked when at a trail centre or such like. With me living in the Lakes though it works out well for when I’m riding rougher, natural trails.

Have you looked on the Ibis forum over on MTBR? I think a lot of the Yanks are using Rockshox Lyriks on their HD’s. I don’t know how far you are from Cumbria but Whinlatter Bikes in Keswick have the HD’s on demo. Biketreks in Ambleside should be able to sort a demo on a Nomad too.

I’ve ridden both, not extensively but definitely enough to get a handle on the differences.

In summary I found the Nomad to be the better performing bike in absolute terms; it’s immediately and noticeable stiffer and the suspension performance is better. I think it’s also a fraction lighter.

However, the Mojo HD is more flexible and can play a number of different roles. You can run it in 140mm or 160mm settings with forks to match. The options of running a 32mm fork then means that the overall build can be made lighter than on the Nomad, all other things being equal, without compromising the handling. In fact, the Mojo HD can do everything from light, but incredibly stiff, mid travel trail bike, all the way through to almost a short course DH bike, although I don’t think it quite gets there and in terms of outright DH performance, I think the Nomad is better.

The Nomad is a supremely well sorted bike; it’s unbelievably stiff and maintains a composure of rough ground that is difficult to explain until you’ve actually experienced it. It’s one of those ah-ha moments when you do though. The Mojo HD is also stiff, but not quite as dramatically as the Nomad. I ride a Nicolai Helius AM and that’s one of the stiffest alu frames you can buy (but it’s also a good deal heavier than average); the HD felt about as stiff as the Nic, whereas the carbon Nomad moved the game on and then some.

The HD is great but I’m not sure it was 100% as sorted as the Nomad; the sizing is a little off – a medium feels very small and the front centre I think should be a bit longer, whereas the medium on the Nomad felt spot on for me (I’m just under 6ft). The suspension on the HD feels more neutral though; the Nomad’s action does feel distinctive and you can definitely feel it doing its thing whereas the HD works well but doesn’t have as much inherent character. That is something I personally like because it means the bike isn’t interfering with your experience of the ground underneath. That said, that very neutral feel makes it hard to set up well; I watched my mate (whose bike is the one I’ve spent time on) try over and over to get a set up he feels 100% comfortable with. I think he’s there now, but it’s taken a lot of trial and effort to do so.

One other point about the HD is that if you’re looking to run a chain device of any kind, you have to run the MRP one that comes with the bike; you can’t retrofit stock items as they clash with the chain stay.

You know having said all that, you really could end up buying the one you like the look of as ultimately they are both excellent bikes. Which is cheaper, which has the better aftermarket support, which fits you personally the best, which is sold by your favourite bike shop?

HD is actually quite a heavy frame, compared to the Nomad – a large Nomad frame is ~200g lighter than a Medium Mojo HD, there’s probably three quarters of a pound in it when you compare like for like sizes.

Mojo HD is also very short in the TT – I considered one to replace my large Spicy, but I’d be needing an XL frame at 6’1″ to get the same fit – don’t think there’d have been any weight saving switching frames as a result

Having said all that, the HD is miles cheaper – The Bike Chain do them for under £1900, and there’s the STW discount too.

lol that site is dangerous, I’ve just built a 26lb Nomad. £8600…. 😯

I’ve ridden one that weighed 27lbs. That was what really blew me away.

When you can have a 160mm bike that is as light, if not lighter, than your average 140mm bike, and pedals as well, why wouldn’t you want to have that?

geetee1972 – Member

When you can have a 160mm bike that is as light, if not lighter, than your average 140mm bike, and pedals as well, why wouldn’t you want to have that?

Because my children would starve.

I was a wee bit underwhelmed by the HD to be honest- felt too short, bit of a “massive XC bike” feel to it. It probably weighed as much as a 140mm bike but it kinda rode like one too. YMMV of course but I wasn’t convinced.

Pedals lovely though, and looks amazing.

Because my children would starve.

Don’t be silly. You’d have sold the children to pay for the bike in the first place 😀

Northwind – Member
I was a wee bit underwhelmed by the HD to be honest- felt too short, bit of a “massive XC bike” feel to it. It probably weighed as much as a 140mm bike but it kinda rode like one too. YMMV of course but I wasn’t convinced.

Pedals lovely though, and looks amazing.

Have heard it described as a climber’s 160mm bike, as opposed to a descender’s.

geetee1972 – Member

Don’t be silly. You’d have sold the children to pay for the bike in the first place

What’s STW policy on advertising my eldest on the classifieds? Excellent climber, light weight, very well looked after, helitaped from new?

I have an HD 160, I dont bother swapping to the shorter travel mode, as its a bit of a faff and you need a different shock, and I actually dont think it really needs it. It pedals pretty well in 160mm mode.

I agree with Geetee about it being quite difficult to set up right, and I also agree with d45yth about it not feeling super smooth over small chattery bumps, but once you get the speed up and the bumps get bigger it becomes super smooth.

It was a toss up for me between the HD and the nomad C, in the end I went for the HD as I could get it significantly cheaper than the Nomad, and I felt the nomad wouldnt pedal quite so well.

So far I have no regrets, its my only bike so gets used for everything, and I couldnt think of a better all rounder.

That website also thinks a CCDB with steel coil weighs 400g, good luck on that one.

Edit: Actually, it’s all a bit rubbish. 2.35 High Roller is the heavy option, spend more and get the lighter LUST option… hmmmm.

Is it because the none tubeless tyres have innertubes? I as a web designer think the site is great, they obviously need to check more weights, but it’s still nice to see what the bike would look like. I’m loving the Nomad with Bos forks and shock.

I went through the choices listed of the two last year, and ended up going for the Nomad.

I’m about 6’2″ so the large Nomad fitted me well, but I needed an XL Mojo to be roughly the same size.

I thought a bit about whether I would use the Mojo in it’s 140mm mode, but came to the conclusion I probably wouldn’t bother, if it’s built well and light, there didn’t seem to really be any benefit to it, especially as I would only have a 160mm fork, and it might have ended up a little unbalanced. Someone I ride with occasionally has one that started as a 140 bike, and ended up as a 160 as it made such a little difference.

Something that may appear somewhat trivial as well, is the hideous cable routing on the Mojo – along the top tube via some tacky looking screw on cable guides, really looks bad on a bike that’s otherwise visually pretty nice.

So far i’m very happy with my Nomad – I built it light enough to use for trail riding (~27lbs) but plenty strong enough to sub for my DH bike when I fancy riding it instead, plenty capable too as I have even won a race on it.

One other point about the HD is that if you’re looking to run a chain device of any kind, you have to run the MRP one that comes with the bike; you can’t retrofit stock items as they clash with the chain stay.

Also worth noting the chain device choice on a Nomad is somewhat limited also – the lower VPP link gets right in the way of the E13 guides. The only one I found I can use with the bottom roller/slider in remotely the right place is the Straitline Silentguide.

Toasty – Member

That website also thinks a CCDB with steel coil weighs 400g, good luck on that one.

Would that be the two different CCDBs they weighed, both without the spring, which they quote at 478g and 476g respectively, with pictures provided to back it up?

EDIT – or a different site entirely. Ignore me, I’m drunk.

so is the OP the owner of the website I wonder ?????

Two great bikes and I wish I had the choice. Loving the look of the Turner 5.spot also! Would you consider looking at the Yeti SB 66?

geetee1972

I’ve ridden one that weighed 27lbs. That was what really blew me away.

When you can have a 160mm bike that is as light, if not lighter, than your average 140mm bike, and pedals as well, why wouldn’t you want to have that?

Because it’d make anything short of a dh track pretty uninspiring. And if you wanted to ride dh with any real venom you’d need some big heavy tyres and blah blah blah blah……

iainc – Member
so is the OP the owner of the website I wonder ?????

Agreed. First post, and looks a LOT like an advert to me.

jimjam – Member

Because it’d make anything short of a dh track pretty uninspiring.

Nah, not really. A good 6-inch bike isn’t just for big hits. I’ve raced downhill and enduro on mine but it’s done blue routes, natural xc, bits of the west highland way…

Northwind

Nah, not really. A good 6-inch bike isn’t just for big hits.

Pretty subjective. The last time I rode a 160mm bike on easy to moderate stuff I was pretty bored, I couldnt feel the trail and I could just plow instead of pick lines. I was able to land stuff in a pretty lazy fashion knowing the bike would mop up my lack of technique. The flip side of that is when I rode the same bike on a dh run I was thinking, maybe I should have worn my full face.

Bugger me.Iv,e just built an £9200 nomad on there. 🙂

Because it’d make anything short of a dh track pretty uninspiring.

and

I could just plow instead of pick lines

I understand these arguments entirely but here’s the counter. Just because you can, doesn’t mean you have to have. The challenge comes in riding those sections of trails even faster while still picking the best lines, using the terrain to gain speed etc.

I personally have never found 160mm to inhibit my sense of what’s going on under my wheels, but I did have that exact experience going from a 200mm DH bike to my AM bike so the concept is familiar.

Using that experience, my conclusion is that there is a level of skill each of us has beyond which riding a longer travel bike doesn’t actually make you faster, it just makes the ride less interesting. To get the most out of modern DH bikes these days you really have to be motoring, most likely at speeds that most of us just aren’t comfortable with. I guess the same is true of AM bikes with 160mm travel.

So in conclusion the argument that 160mm is too much for trail riding holds true if the speed you’re comfortable riding that bike at is too far inside the envelope of what the bike is capable of.

Similarly, the enjoyment we get from riding mountain bikes seems to be strongly linked to riding our chosen bike at or close to its capability.

What do people think?

Kinda agree with you on that one. It’s a bit like having a quick car. Used to have a civic type-R and although it was ok to drive at a moderate pace, it didn’t ” come alive” until you started raggin it.

[video]http://vimeo.com/39728151[/video]

i would say this is well within a nomads comfort zone.

Unless you’re planning on doing big mountain riding (the alps, whistler, my scotland), it is a bit surplus to trail riding.

i’d say the same for just about any modern 160mm bike. To me, they’re essentially DH bike you can pedal. This means they are designed to be ridden really, really hard, any less doesn’t do them justice. Also the argument that modern 160 bikes are far, far more capable than DH bikes 10, maybe even 5 years ago.

I have a 160 bike, it has ironed out a majority of the peaks and trail centres for me, no have a 100mm hardtail for those duties.

Also, no mention of ride locations, style, what they want, what they prefer, previous bikes, what they liked/didn’t like about previous bikes, the list goes on, the important stuff when deciding which bike is right.

Great video and kind of illustrates my point; nothing they were riding necessitated a 160mm travel bike, but the speed they were going did!

Great video and kind of illustrates my point; nothing they were riding necessitated a 160mm travel bike, but the speed they were going did!

That vid was kind of used to show how fast/hard a 160 bike is capable of, much harder and faster than a lot of people imagine a 160 bike is for.

Also for balance, Mojo-

[video]http://vimeo.com/24465834[/video]

A thread of what a 140/160 bike is for-

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/all-mountaintrailmountain-bike-vid-appreciation

That vid was kind of used to show how fast/hard a 160 bike is capable of, much harder and faster than a lot of people imagine a 160 bike is for.

That’s what I understood as well and I totally agree with your point.

Bear in mind also that if you’re a man mountain/heavy you don’t need to be riding all that fast before you start to stress the bike and feel the effects of that stress.

Got a nomad and the first time I went down garburn pass in the lakes at the same speed as I went down on my old sub 5 it was if it was saying to me “Is that it?, is that the best you can do? ” so I just ride a lot faster now 😀

i’d say the same for just about any modern 160mm bike. To me, they’re essentially DH bike you can pedal. This means they are designed to be ridden really, really hard, any less doesn’t do them justice. Also the argument that modern 160 bikes are far, far more capable than DH bikes 10, maybe even 5 years ago.

Thas evolution for you though – 10 years ago people were racing DH on elastomer sprung 5″ bikes, you could argue most current 120mm+ bikes would be better than that for comparison’s sake.

A 160mm bike is nothing like a current DH bike, and to be fair, comparing it to something like the bike of the moment 5 years ago (something like an IH Sunday) it’s nothing like that either.

Most bikes at the 140/160mm mark are pretty capable of anything now, but using the video’s as examples above, a quick rider will be quick regardless. It just so happens they were riding a 160mm bike in that instance.

Just get a decent hardtail and stop fannying about worrying whether 160 is enough or too much travel.

I love the Simmons & Vanderham clip from Midweek Mini Movies 97… who needs 160mm of travel… 😳

Midweek Mini Movies 97

I ride the same trails on my rigid SS as I do on my 160mm AM bike… but I ride them very differently.

A friend has just test ridden both and ordered a Nomad Carbon.

She reckoned the Mojo was an amazing climber but the Nomad outclassed it on the descents.

Get a Mega, half the price and better geometry..

low, slack, long, short top tube, steep seat angle for climbing… 8)