Iv had enough of doing loops deciding whether to buy the 8sp hub or the 11sp hub for my new mtb build – so will someone please make the decision for me….!

Setup will be 32×22 for the steep hills where I ride (fixed).

Pros and cons as far as I can see them

8sp…..
Cheaper
better reliability (from what I have read)
No Torque upper limit (from what I have heard)

but…
will run out of gears very quickly with my setup
No oil bath
poorer shifter

11sp…..
will run out of gears a bit less quickly
nicer shifter
oil bath (this makes sense to me)
More efficient (I dont know if this is true or not??)

but…..
Expensive
unreliable?? (from what I have heard)
Upper limit to the torque they will take – and I will exceed it.

but….
why does it state in the Alfine 11 spec “Helical internal sprockets increase durability, perform better with high torque loading and provide a constant engagement for a smooth and quiet operation “

so if it performs better with high torque loading how come it has an upper limit when the Alfine 8 doesn’t ??

any thoughts…?

Had my Alfine 8 for two years on commuter duty, all fine so far. Lusted after the ’11 but, rather like yourself, all that my internet research has come up with is reliability issues

not sure why your so set on oil bath ?

opened my 8 up after a winters commuting 50K a day in all but 3 foot of snow.

was like new in there.

i had this same dilemma, i haven’t bought yet, mine will be on a custom build so i have like been weighing up the pros and cons, i talked to a friend who had the 11 on his genesis mtb, ran it for a year with no issues, also i spoke to 2 mechanics who work on them regularly, both said if you do the oil change thing then they will remain smooth and explained how it was done and if you are reasonably mechanically minded then it shouldn’t be an issue. their only complaint was the shimano oil price that you dunk the assembly in, their attitude was find out what grade oil it is and buy the equivalent from a motor parts dealer.

regarding the helical set up inside, as i understand it, it’s supposed to be a better design and more like a car gearbox. one of the mechanics i spoke to was a qualified car/motorbike mechanic (but missed the bike trade so has gone back also the rider of the above mentioned genesis) and he said it was a far superior design and if maintained would last fine.

also, i understand that the internal are made from better quality material in the 11 as opposed to the 8

both these guys i trust their opinion and i used to work in a shop with one of them.

not sure why your so set on oil bath ?

I was trying to fill up the 11sp pro section
…It should be better though…..shouldn’t it??
Iv also heard of people “upgrading” the 8sp to oil bath

i also have a rohloff.

its an oil bath

its sat in the back of the shed gathering dust in favour of the alfine 8.

put it this way , the gear design is fine- however no amount of maintainance will help the poor sealing issue that cant keep the oil inside the 11spd

trail_rat
Could you elaborate on the “poor sealing issue”
Do you believe this to be a problem with your unit or the design in general?

nope i mean on the 11speed.

all the failures i know of have been seals letting the oil dump

My 8spd was always draggy, degreased it in petrol and chucked some ATF in there instead, loads better. Needs reoiling every few months but its a 15 minute job once you’ve worked it out.

However, Id still never use one on an MTB, all the (extra) weight focused on back wheel is not nice and still draggier than deraillers.

Another 8 Speed user here ***Waves**

I’m just on the cusp of buying a ne IGH and I think I will stick with the 8 speed as mine has been completely unloved and so far* has been flawless.

*Runs off to touch wood.

+1 for 8 speed. Mine’s had zero maintenance, is coming up for 3 years old and has had shed loads of use.

I’m going to get it serviced in a month or two; been quoted £10 for the job!

Its looking like 8sp (hand hovering over buy button)
Are there no 11sp fans out there at all??????????

This thread has made me want to service my hub even though there’s nothing wrong with it! 😉

This thread has made me want to service my hub even though there’s nothing wrong with it!

Me too, want to see if ATF makes that much of a difference!

8 spd can have a better shifter (zerode bikes x9 conversion)

No problems here with my 11 speed. It’s over a year old now and could likely do with a service. I’ll take some photos of the old oil for reference. As regards the torque limit/recommendation I’ve ignored it and actually run 2×11 on my Fatbike – that really benefits from super-low gearing.

I’ll answer the question for you, having used both hubs on a MTB – 8 speed every time.

My 11 speed developed a terminal fault after 1000miles, but up until that point it was never truly reliable – skipping, very fussy to minute cable tension adjustments, hence more prone to skipping in a MTB setting.

I have 2 8 speed bikes, both have been fine. Slightly older design, fewer gears in the hub means that there is more leeway for minor adjustment discrepancies, such as may creep in during a long ride in the filth. The sealing on the 8 speed seems fine to me – I’ve had them up to the nuts in Peak District filth and they’re spotless inside.

Google the CTC forum – “Alfine 11 longer term reliability” thread. Currently on 25 pages. Why invest in the hassle? The 8 speed shifter has (I hear) been upgraded to Rapidfire plus, but still works in reverse. I think the shifters are fine. Set your rear sprocket size to the largest one that you need to climb (I also have 32×22), you’ll spin out on fast road sections but rarely on the trails. Rose in Germany have the 8 speed hub for £180 delivered – that’s the hub, sprocket, cassette joint, new design shifter and cable all in.

Summary – 8 speed yes, 11 speed no.

philtricklebank
Thank you – that seals it.
As you say – why pay more for (at the very least) more risk.

Ive tried both and own an 8sp. I was really attracted to the 11 when it was released but found the extra 3 gears almost pointless. The 8sp spread was good enough for me, and as others have said, stick whatever rear cog you like on – they seem to be able to take it.

The comments on 8sp reliability are just a bonus for me.

Toured mine to Paris and back in July and fell in love with its simplicity all over again. I love my 1×9 set up but am really tempted to stick my Alfine on a Cotic Simple… the only thing holding me back is the added rear end weight.

philtricklebank – Member

My 11 speed developed a terminal fault after 1000miles, but up until that point it was never truly reliable – skipping, very fussy to minute cable tension adjustments, hence more prone to skipping in a MTB setting.

I sent my slipping 11 speed back under warranty and it had a full service and shipped back to me, it was sort of ok for 4 months but still slipped gears 2 or 3 times a ride when under load going up hill.
Last weekend it wouldn’t stay in 2nd at all.
Did an oil change (oil expensive) and noticed the cable had stretched a fraction, tightened this up. But not ridden it since doing this so I can’t comment.

If I could have my time again I would defiantly avoid any Shimano internal hub and go for a 1 x 10 set up.

Or maybe a Rohloff

8 speed here. Totally reliable. But ive just upgraded to one speed.

Condider Deore 1×9/10. Cheaper, lighter same ratio. Hose it down now and again. Replace cassette every 2years. Bargain!

Buy trail rats Rohloff off him. 🙂

Yep, 8spd all the way, got one on all my bikes, been riding a second hand one on my c456 for 2 years now, no issues at all, I do the atf oil thing once a year, get smoother and less draggy every time. Never going back!

My 11 speed has been running Ok for 2 years now. First one died with 2nd & 10th skipping issues. Change the oil regularly, I use 80w car gearbox oil, no signs of leakage but never get the same amount of oil out that goes in… As mentioned above, 11’s are sensitive to cable adajustment & I do not rely on the yellow marks. use these to get close then 2nd & 10th seem to be the sensitive one’s needing an adjuster click or 2 either way, once set I have not needed to twiddle it for months. Running 32 / 20 on a 26″ wheel which gives me all the range I need as I’m a bit of a low rever. Weight over the rear is noticable but I sense that the wheel build is very stiff with the large diameter hubs which gives a rough ride on my slidey drop-out 853 On-One. I’m afraid that I’m still not confident to recommend an 11 though if you are after a fit & forget. 8’s OK if you can live with a backward shifter.

32/22 sounds very low-geared for the 8-speed hub. I used to spin out frequently on 32/20 on any road/flat sections.

I’ve currently got 34/18 which is about right for me but then I am stupid fit these days.

29/18 here on my 8 speed.

I am stupid fit these days.

bully for you!!

34:20 on mine.

It’s pretty draggy though, will servicing it really make a big difference? Might have to see if I can DIY it.

This is the newer shifter for the 8spd… as already mentioned, it is still the wrong way round as per rapid rise, but is smaller than the original and has rapidfire plus with the finger trigger going both ways:

http://www.bike-discount.de/shop/k896/a72866/alfine-gear-shifter-rapidfire-sl-s503-8-speed-right.html

Only does 1 gear at a time though, despite blurb saying otherwise