http://road.cc/content/news/126218-families-cyclists-killed-drunk-drug-driver-67-previous-convictions-appeal
10years for killing 2 people,
whilst doing 68 in a 30zone,
whilst pissed,
whilst driving a stolen aggravatedly taken car,
whilst banned
after 67 other offences
sounds like an all round lovely fella
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-27056966
Family aren’t happy with the sentencing, I think they have a point.

I knew He’d been sentenced, I didn’t know about the families were challenging it I’ve signed the petition here…

Yeah He’s a nasty little scrote, ten years was nothing like enough…

Great closing line

Walter was also banned for driving for 15 years and will have to pass an extended test.

I really can’t figure out what someone would actually have to do to get a lifetime driving ban, that really needs to be an available sanction for the justice system.

Not heard of this case before. I quickly scanned the headline and thought “Wow. 10 years is a huge sentence compared to most”. And then I read it properly.

I’m often accused of being too tolerant of bad driving, but he should never, ever drive again. I’m not convinced he’s the kind of character that could ever be reformed enough to be released at all.

Walter was also banned for driving for 15 years and will have to pass an extended test. probably ignore it as he did the last.

thought there was a thread about it at the time of the accident MCTD, can’t find it now tho.

There was indeed a previous thread, but the sentencing challenge and petition are new news…

This case is quite close to home for me, I was out riding the night it happened, and had a brief chat with the PC manning the road block at the bottom of Purley rise, probably about an hour after the incident, we have friend who live within feet of the location and heard it and my Missus works for RBC, she got very nervous about me going out on the bike for a while after this event…

Pleading guilty and expressing remorse shouldn’t lessen the sentence IMO, it’s common practise for multiple counts of man slaughter to carry a tariff for each life isn’t it? So how come a Drunk/Disqualified/Dangerous driver gets a “Two for one deal” then?

From the BBC link

In 2003, he was jailed for six months after duping several airlines in a plot that mirrored the film, Catch Me If You Can for using a chequebook from his failed company to buy flights to destinations including the United States, Johannesburg and Sydney.

And in 2001 he was sentenced to two years’ custody after phoning a bomb hoax to Heathrow Airport just days after the 11 September terror attacks on the United States

WTAF. The guy needs locking up for good, he’s clearly got no desire to live in “civilised” society. A US style 3 strike rule would have been good in this case……

And in 2001 he was sentenced to two years’ custody after phoning a bomb hoax to Heathrow Airport just days after the 11 September terror attacks on the United States

this sounds like mental illness though, doesn’t it rather than just criminality – people who are fine don’t do that.

he is not all there is he?

I agree a lifetime ban is required and a longer sentence.

signed

I don’t think a lifetime driving ban will do anything, he was already ignoring a 4 yr driving ban. Certainly increase the prison sentence

His early life history has probably caused a bunch of issues with this chap. However the sentence seems, in light of other dangerous driving offences, pretty strong. In spite of all of his intensely poor choices earlier that evening, he did not set out with the intention of killing anyone. Lifetime driving bans are counter productive. All they achieve is bad drivers being forced to drive uninsured, mot’ed, etc.

Signed this last week.

He certainly should NEVER be allowed to hold a driving licence again.

signed…lock him up and throw away the key…

forced to drive uninsured

No one is ‘forced’ to drive by a driving ban.

I’d happily see dangerous driver who “need” to drive be given a special ‘moped only’ license. So they can ride a moped limited to 30mph between hours set by the judge, allowing them to get to work and back and not much else.

At the moment all you need to do, it seems, is say “oo, but it would be a bit awkward for me to get the bus to work, so can you ignore my 15 points and let me keep driving please?” and you get to keep your license due to ‘exceptional hardship’.

mental illness though

IANA psychologist but this repeated criminality looks more like psychopathy to me

Some quality Trolling there chap

lets do this point by point shall we:

His early life history has probably caused a bunch of issues with this chap

And? All sorts of people with childhood trauma manage to not kill strangers with cars on a daily basis, are you suggesting such people should be held to a “lesser standard” due to their earlier life?
Will the seven kids who’s Dad’s Walters killed get any special treatment later in life due to the early trauma He’s inflicted?

However the sentence seems, in light of other dangerous driving offences, pretty strong.

Strong? From reading this I’d say he meets most of the criteria for a “Level 1” sentence pushing 14 years, the fact that “More than one person killed as a result of the offence” is treated as an Additional Aggravating Factor is what is being challenged by that petition to certain extent, the impact of the offence is “Multiplied” in simple terms, and thus so sentencing should be…
Ten years is rather lenient.

In spite of all of his intensely poor choices earlier that evening, he did not set out with the intention of killing anyone.

Hence he was charged with “causing death by dangerous driving” the lack of intent was recognised in the charge, its not like really not meaning to makes it any less of an offence.

Lifetime driving bans are counter productive. All they achieve is bad drivers being forced to drive uninsured, mot’ed, etc.

We should be licencing “bad drivers” then? (a definition this fella far exceeds IMO) This comes back to the fundamental “a driving licence is a privileged not a right” thing IMO…

Some offences, such as the one in question, especially when the offender was already banned, should carry an even higher degree of sentence than a fixed term ban, the fella has proven He is beyond trusting with a motor vehicle on the road, your argument is essentially that a lifetime ban would “Criminalize” criminal drivers, well… good! the deterrent value is the very real threat that someone could lose any legal right to use motor vehicles on the road for the rest of their life, something we seem far too reticent to do in the UK, Breach of a lifetime driving ban should result in prison time…

Walters was 31 at the time of sentencing, meaning that with his ban he could (legally) be back behind the wheel by the age of 46, I’ll feel so much safer on the roads come 2029 knowing there’s potentially a Driver somewhere in the UK who has already killed two people with a car and has a 15 year gap in his driving experience…
What better for public safety than a rusty, dangerous driver?

quick question

Walters was 31 at the time of sentencing, meaning that with his ban he could (legally) be back behind the wheel by the age of 46,

assuming he appeals and sentence is upheld, he’s still not going to do 10years in jail is he? probably a lot less, are driving bans a constant or do they get reduced aswell?
Tho he’s already proven a ban isn’t likely to stop him driving

he did not set out with the intention of killing anyone.

true, I don’t think someone killing someone with their car “accidentally” should instantly get a massive jail term, this case is about a million miles away from “merely driving home and accidentally killed someone” tho isn’t it?

IANAL either but my understanding is:

Driving Bans are fixed term, they can only be extended, not reduced, Any extensions would typically be applied due to the offender having been caught breaching their original ban…

There is no real scope for demonstrating “Good behaviour” with a driving ban, other than by complying with the imposed ban… surely?

Unless the sentencing Judge can set separate conditions for a reduction in a driving ban’s period, such as attending Drink/Drug rehab, or making a really good “Sorry” face?

thought so, just checking there wasn’t some appeals process at the DVLA or similar for when the poor wee soul thinks they’ve suffered enough.

I don’t think someone killing someone with their car “accidentally” should instantly get a massive jail term,

You should forfeit your ‘right’ to hold a driving licence though, automatically, without exception.

You should forfeit your ‘right’ to hold a driving licence though, automatically, without exception.

Agreed. I think being involved in an incident where you caused injury is probably reason enough to lose your licence until you prove you can actually drive to test standard. Logistics obviously need a bit of thinking about. Maybe post incident you have 4 weeks to do a driving test, pass and you keep your licence until court proceedings have concluded (so you could still be banned) fail (or don’t do a test) and you lose your licence until you pass a test. Also fail a breathalyser at an incident you lose your licence straight away pending court proceedings. All short term bans require an extended retest, much more chance of long/permanent bans.

Basically make losing your licence for shitty/illegal/dangerous behaviour a very real prospect rather than being a highly unlikely consequence even if you get the unlucky cocktail of crap defence, really strict judge and an unsympathetic jury.

maximum sentence 14 years, level 1 starting point 8 years, pleaded guilty so should get 33 to 25% off depending when he pleaded in the proceedings. So a 10 year sentence suggests the judges starting point was circa 14 years ie he treated this as the worst case the guidelines contemplate . A single incident so established sentencing practice would direct concurrent not consecutive sentences. The ban is until enhanced test past so is in effect indefinite with a minimum term . It is possible to apply to court to have your licence reinstated if you have served half your ban and at least 2 years (good luck with that boyo in this case)

There is a massively good reason for credit for a guilty plea essentially if pleading guilty gave no advantage everyone would go to trial hoping for a prosecution cock up or a perverse verdict or just to spend more time out of prison . Victims would be put through the mill for no good reason and justice would be delayed and very much more expensive.

Some quality Trolling there chap

Not really. Just my opinion.

Petition signed.

maximum sentence 14 years

is that just for the DByDD? What about all the other stuff on top?

A single incident so established sentencing practice would direct concurrent not consecutive sentences

Pretty sure this is what the families are upset about, like I said they may have a point. Hit a car kill all occupants consectutive could be seen as harsh, but he hit 2 seperate vehicles here. Even if the 2 deaths were a single incident what about the TWOC, driving while banned, drunk etc don’t they count as seperate incidents?

There is a massively good reason for credit for a guilty plea

Yep I fully see the point of time off for guilty plea.

It is possible to apply to court to have your licence reinstated if you have served half your ban and at least 2 years

****ers! Distinctly unimpressed at hearing that.