Ah the hypocrisy

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  • Ah the hypocrisy
  • project
    Member

    Instead of telling the school youre taking the kids on holiday, tell them the kids are on strike, for better conditions, and free school meals.

    and that they will be unavailable to attend as is their democratic right to strike.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    Is that true about it being illegal to take kids out of school?

    Premier Icon mtbfix
    Subscriber

    Not sure about it being a criminal offence but you have to have the head’s consent to take kids out of school during term time.

    dannyh
    Member

    And I bet no one even noticed the incongruity of those two letters being sent in the same week.

    The tail is having a go at wagging the dog again.

    PeterPoddy
    Member

    One saying that following a change in the law I will be prosecuted if I take the kids out of school during term time.

    In my day my mum or dad just filled a holiday form in and off we went…..

    Premier Icon MSP
    Subscriber

    Where’s the hypocrisy, the schools not on strike, teachers are. Maybe if more parents showed their support for teachers the Government would compromise and the strike could be avoided.

    Junkyard
    Member

    You seemed confused about industrial action and a holiday

    Is that true about it being illegal to take kids out of school

    No it just means the head can no longer authorise you take the kids out of school during term time

    There is not even a legal duty for your kids to go to school never mind attend – you do need to educate [ or at least say you are no one checks]

    If absence gets to over 30 % then the hugely depleted social services/EWO machine will start working to get you to engage

    Nothing really has changed except they might tut at you

    Premier Icon jamj1974
    Subscriber

    Maybe if more parents showed their support for teachers the Government would compromise and the strike could be avoided.

    Good teachers get my support – bad teachers my contempt. Luckily this year my daughter has a fantastic teacher, my sons have not been so fortunate… Last year the situation was reversed.

    I continue to support my children’s school even though over the last four years they have been unable to demonstrate that they deserve it.

    This week I got two letters from the kids’ school:

    One saying that following a change in the law I will be prosecuted if I take the kids out of school during term time.

    The other letter was telling me that the staff are on strike again and so I mustn’t bring the kid into school next Thursday.

    hmmmm

    Maybe if more parents showed their support for teachers

    Why the heck would I show support for someone who gets paid a bloody good wage for the work that they do and gets a frankly obscene amount of holidays.

    Yes I support the fact that you want yet more money and fatter pensions. Why not take an extra day off and I’ll use up one of my precious 25 days annual leave to cover for you.

    And don’t forget about all the snow days that they have on top

    Edric 64
    Member

    Why the heck would I show support for someone who gets paid a bloody good wage for the work that they do and gets a frankly obscene amount of holidays.

    Troll ?

    Junkyard
    Member

    Why the heck would I show support for someone who gets paid a bloody good wage for the work that they do and gets a frankly obscene amount of holidays.

    Is it because they will teach your kids to not grow up bitter and envious ? Perhaps inspire them to improve themselves…PS have you thought of talking this piss easy life opportunity?

    Yes I support the fact that you want yet more money and fatter pensions.

    Not been reading the papers as both of those facts are incorrect

    Why not take an extra day off and I’ll use up one of my precious 25 days annual leave to cover for you.

    Legal minimum is 28 days

    Its a D from me

    cheekyboy
    Member

    Not been reading the papers as both of those facts are incorrect

    Obviously not the bit about incorrect facts 😳

    Premier Icon dazh
    Subscriber

    Why the heck would I show support for someone who gets paid a bloody good wage for the work that they do and gets a frankly obscene amount of holidays.

    Only a matter of time before someone came out with the Daily Mail argument. Do you know any teachers? I know quite a few, and I can categorically say that of all the careers out there it’s probably one of the hardest in comparison to the financial rewards. A few of my mates have been completely broken by it, to the point of exhaustion and/or mental illness. So before you go off on another ill-informed rant about holidays etc try finding out what it’s really like.

    It’s
    FTFY

    Fixing JY’s spelling?

    🙂

    Your posts have been passed onto me and, look, sorry, you’ve been regraded to E.

    Oh, and get yourself into a good union. They’ll get you more holidays and better pay.

    slackalice
    Member

    Troll. Possibly not, but it does illustrate how many parents do not understand the role of a teacher in the schools’ of today.

    Whilst there are seemingly 13 or 14 weeks of holiday, plus the 6 inset day’s for professional training, I get the impression that for the diligent teacher, much holiday time is taken up with lesson planning, marking and trying to work out what the DoE want them to do…

    Personally speaking, teachers are already on the wrong foot by dint of them being called a ‘Teacher’. It places too many expectations of them onto themselves, their students and parents and the public at large, i.e. for me it suggests that they are giving, or spoon-feeding information. I would suggest that they be called ‘Facilitators’. Thereby, seen more as enabling their students to learn.

    Possibly namby pamby job title stuff, but we are so obsessed with job titles and status. The possible downside to re-naming them could be the unions demanding a pay rise we can’t afford.

    Junkyard
    Member

    Fixing JY’s spelling?

    Its an never ending thankless task but easier than debating my formidable logic 😉

    Premier Icon i_like_food
    Subscriber

    Don’t get angry, get even. Vote Tory and supersize that by emailing Mr Gove saying you support all his reforms as everything he’s doing is in the best interests of young people (he is an expert on education as he once went to a school).

    That’ll sort them.

    project
    Member

    Do you know any teachers? I know quite a few, and I can categorically say that of all the careers out there it’s probably one of the hardest in comparison to the financial rewards

    Youve obviously not spoken or know any care workers in care homes, who regularly work 12 hour shifts, have low minimum pay,sometimes theyre called in on days off to cover for absent colegues having to take a day of to look after their kids due to striking workers at other employment places, sometimes have to buy their own uniforms etc etc.

    slackalice
    Member

    Youve obviously not spoken or know any care workers in care homes, who regularly work 12 hour shifts, have low minimum pay,sometimes theyre called in on days off to cover for absent colegues having to take a day of to look after their kids due to striking workers at other employment places, sometimes have to buy their own uniforms etc etc.

    Unfortunately, that is the society we have developed and reside in. That we value the time, skills and experience of, for example, a computer programmer way way more than those in the social services, care sector etc etc. Crazy, but there we go….

    headfirst
    Member

    This thread should be renamed either

    Ah the bitterness

    or

    Ah the ignorance.

    Fancy project turning up on here, enough to make one think there’s a conspiracy…

    project
    Member

    Fancy project

    waves back

    Ah the hypocrisy

    This week I got two letters from the kids’ school

    One letter refers to a decision made by the Secretary of State for Education.

    The other letter refers to a decision made by the NUT and the NASUWT.

    Where’s the “hypocrisy” ?

    Premier Icon dazh
    Subscriber

    Youve obviously not spoken or know any care workers in care homes, who regularly work 12 hour shifts, have low minimum pay

    My partner was a care worker for a long time, and a few of my mates have been and still are so yes I understand the lot of a careworker too. However, it is not a race to the bottom! You seem to be rather bitter about teachers having half decent salaries and pensions which care workers don’t. Maybe that’s because teachers defend themselves by being in trade unions? If care workers are not happy maybe they could learn a thing or two?

    Maybe that’s because teachers defend themselves by being in trade unions?

    Erm, I don’t call going on strike for one day ‘defending themselves’.

    All that will happen is that the government will ignore their demands whilst focusing on their allegedly “irresponsible behaviour”, with a few herberts on bike forums obligingly doing the government’s dirty work for them by attempting to demonise teachers.

    If they really wanted to defend themselves and the teaching profession, they would stage an indefinite strike, only returning to work after an acceptable settlement had been reached. I have little doubt that the issues would be resolved very quickly indeed under those conditions.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    Unfortunately, that is the society we have developed and reside in. That we value the time, skills and experience of, for example, a computer programmer way way more than those in the social services, care sector etc etc

    Well, not exactly. Society doesn’t look objectively at a job and assign it a value. The job markets do that. In the same way that computer programmers are free to take up teaching, teachers are also free to take up computer programming if they want more cash.

    Now personally I would pay teachers more, but for market reasons not because of a value judgement.

    I have little doubt that the issues would be resolved very quickly indeed under those conditions.

    I do doubt that. The government know that teachers do the job they do because they care about kids, so they won’t abandon them.

    ninfan
    Member

    Ernie +1

    It worked for the miners!

    project
    Member

    If they really wanted to defend themselves and the teaching profession, they would stage an indefinite strike, only returning to work only after an acceptable settlement had been reached. I have little doubt that the issues would be resolved very quickly indeed under those conditions.

    Like the liverpool bus drivers, 9 weeks on strike, BL workers, Crosville bus drivers at wrexham, and western ship repairers workers,liverpool apprentices strike the miners, and many more.Some won and some lost, but they had solisdarity and mostly support from fellow trades unionists and the public.

    Perhaps the teachers should strike in their summer break, the one they spend marking, making lesson plans, and other such imaginary work 😯

    I’m fairly sure that schools wouldn’t be permanently closed down ninfan – what do you think ?

    I would give it no more than a week or two before the government urgently sought a speedy resolution to the dispute, basically as soon as they realised that the unions were serious about no return to work until a settlement had been reached.

    Premier Icon footflaps
    Subscriber

    Hmm, given that the economy and society could cope pretty well with an indefinite strike (it’s not like the lights would go out), I’m not so sure the government would cave in.

    RichPenny
    Member

    Jesus Christ there are some proper bell ends on here.

    given that the economy and society could cope pretty well with an indefinite strike

    Yes of course, the government would just ignore all the schools shut indefinitely 🙂

    But a one day strike will be quite impossible to ignore !

    The government are doing what they are doing because they know that there is zero chance of the teachers staging a proper strike. And they are right of course.

    timc
    Member

    project – Member
    Perhaps the teachers should strike in their summer break, the one they spend marking, making lesson plans, and other such imaginary work

    Think that time is spent scouting the local pubs so no term time lunch hours go to waste

    slackalice
    Member

    Well, not exactly. Society doesn’t look objectively at a job and assign it a value. The job markets do that. In the same way that computer programmers are free to take up teaching, teachers are also free to take up computer programming if they want more cash.

    Of course it’s a value judgement! The mere fact that care workers are paid minimum wage or just over is what the market will bear. The same market that is in our society. Immigrant workers are often employed in the low pay jobs because the indigenous population prefer to value themselves more highly – rightly or wrongly.

    And why should someone who is in healthcare (like a nurse for example) because they are compassionate and caring and they receive much job satisfaction through looking after and caring for people, be made to change career into one they dislike because it pays better?

    Why do we not, as a society, appropriately recognise the value that people who really contribute to the welfare of the same society? I’ll make it easy for you:
    a) – Because western society is sick
    b) – Because western society values status and monetary wealth as important
    c)- Both of the above

    stevewhyte
    Member

    Why the heck would I show support for someone who gets paid a bloody good wage for the work that they do and gets a frankly obscene amount of holidays.

    Yes I support the fact that you want yet more money and fatter pensions. Why not take an extra day off and I’ll use up one of my precious 25 days annual leave to cover for you.

    1892 just phoned, it wants its argument back.

    johndoh
    Member

    Why not take an extra day off and I’ll use up one of my precious 25 days annual leave to cover for you.

    Legal minimum is 28 days
    Its a D from me
    Including bank holidays. Very normal to get 25 + statutory holidays and I am sure that is what he meant. A+

    project
    Member

    Jesus Christ there are some proper bell ends on here.

    as per usual lately there is always somebody that doesnt have anything to add to the debate, or ability to formulate an opinion, and turns to bitter insults,and blasphemy, oh what a sad life you must lead.

    project
    Member

    Of course it’s a value judgement! The mere fact that care workers are paid minimum wage or just over is what the market will bear. The same market that is in our society. Immigrant workers are often employed in the low pay jobs because the indigenous population prefer to value themselves more highly – rightly or wrongly

    or to make a higher profit for the employer and a higher dividend for the company shareholders.

    Where as schools didnt have shareholders but now with the new acadamies, money must be saved on salaries and other expences to fund the share holders and employers.

    hora
    Member

    Strikes?

    Who is one protecting; ones rights/self or protecting the childrens education?

    timc
    Member

    slackalice – Member
    b) – Because western society values status and monetary wealth as important

    Presume that includes teachers then?

    Premier Icon Coyote
    Subscriber

    Legal minimum is 28 days

    Including bank holidays.

    My wife is a teacher. She works in Liverpool. She is not striking and one of the parents has called her a scab. Nice.

    I am a supporter of teachers and often fight their corner but this is ill-timed and a massive mis-judgement. There are austerity cuts all over Europe and the red tops are foaming over military redundancies. The NUT and NASUWT run a very real risk of alienating themselves and causing untold self-harm. Particularly if working parents have to dip into their generous 28 legal minimum days leave. 😉

    slackalice
    Member

    Presume that includes teachers then?

    I don’t know, you’ll have to ask them.

    or to make a higher profit for the employer and a higher dividend for the company shareholders.

    .

    Unfortunately Project, I think you are correct. So quite how a profit and loss balance sheet can be applied to imparting information and preparing the next generation I do not know…

    timc
    Member

    hope your wife doesn’t teacher at Manor High / St Michaels In crosby 😆

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