Advice not judgement – speeding, a friend thinks they were flashed.

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  • Advice not judgement – speeding, a friend thinks they were flashed.
  • chewkw
    Member

    captainsasquatch – Member

    If you are a non-EU citizen caught speeding in a rented car with a foreign license what can the British govt do? If you have left the country the following day.

    What’s EU got to do with it? [/quote]

    I am using the term to represent the entire Europe.

    I assume if you are caught speeding in EU/UK and being citizen of one of them you have to face the law. Where as if you are not a citizen of any of them then how do you go about imposing that law? i.e. on a citizen from a country in Asia or South East East etc.

    I assume if you are caught speeding in EU/UK and being citizen of one of them you have to face the law. Where as if you are not a citizen of any of them then how do you go about imposing that law?

    You assume wrong.

    chewkw
    Member

    captainsasquatch – Member

    I assume if you are caught speeding in EU/UK and being citizen of one of them you have to face the law. Where as if you are not a citizen of any of them then how do you go about imposing that law?

    You assume wrong. [/quote]

    How wrong?

    I mean if you are visitor and fly home the next day as a non-EU person how does the law work? Bear in mind speeding in other country is not really a crime and normally just a fine.

    Does that mean a British driver caught speeding in Germany/France etc would not have to face the law vice versa? For example, if a German driver caught speeding but he only found out when he is in Germany, does the British court chase after the driver?

    Does that mean a British driver caught speeding in Germany/France etc would not have to face the law vice versa?

    Depends on the country. Not all countries within the EU have shared info agreements. Spain doesn’t share info with UK, for example.
    Hope this doesn’t change your understanding of EU.

    chewkw
    Member

    captainsasquatch – Member

    Does that mean a British driver caught speeding in Germany/France etc would not have to face the law vice versa?

    Depends on the country. Not all countries within the EU have shared info agreements. Spain doesn’t share info with UK, for example.
    Hope this doesn’t change your understanding of EU. [/quote]

    Okay something interesting there.

    Therefore, I guess all visitors (no country agreement) can safely ignore the speeding rules apart from paying fines (if the get one instantly) coz unless a major tragedy happens, no court is going to chase after another person to appear in court from country with no agreement for speeding.

    Chase after a person in China for speeding fine or court appearance in the UK should be interesting …

    Therefore, I guess all visitors can safely ignore the speeding rules apart from paying fines (if the get one instantly) coz unless a major tragedy happens, no court is going to chase after another person to appear in court from country with no agreement for speeding.

    No, all visitors are expected to respect the laws of the land that they are visiting. It kind of demonstrates a level of intelligence. And I suspect there are other ways of catching up with fines.
    I’ve now got to wonder how many other aspect of the EU you don’t understand that you’re ranting against.

    chewkw
    Member

    captainsasquatch – Member
    No, all visitors are expected to respect the laws of the land that they are visiting. It kind of demonstrates a level of intelligence.
    I’ve now got to wonder how many other aspect of the EU you don’t understand that you’re ranting against.

    Yes, I agree with respecting the law of the land etc.

    But what if someone accidentally break the rules for genuine reason? (non-EU/UK citizen and from a country with no agreement with EU/UK)

    What can you do because they are not intentional? In that case you have to let them go don’t you?

    They respect the law but not assuming not very intelligent so accidentally break the rules or speed limit then fly home (to a distance country with no link to UK/EU), you would have to let it them go don’t you?

    For example, say someone from Indonesia has been caught speeding on M1 because the driver is on the way to the airport to catch the plane. The police issues the driver a ticket, the driver admits speeding but after that continues with driving to the airport to fly home never to return to UK again. How to deal with this case?

    Premier Icon orangespyderman
    Subscriber

    There seems to be a lot of talk about the law here. You’re They’re driving at 120mph – that’s not legal in China either, I believe. So, you’re your friend is basically a ****. You’re They’re not accidentally getting flashed at 75mph, and I would bet that you’re your friend is doing it exactly because you they have a foreign licence. When you your friend kills someone’s kid/parent/sister/brother by ploughing into them at 120 mph I’m sure you they will feel much better by knowing your their licence meant they’d not get caught.

    Oh sorry, you asked for no judgement, missed that. Why on earth wouldn’t you they want to be held accountable for something you they’ve done other than because you they know it was wrong?

    Premier Icon njee20
    Subscriber

    They respect the law but not assuming not very intelligent so accidentally break the rules or speed limit then fly home (to a distance country with no link to UK/EU), you would have to let it them go don’t you?

    Ignorance is no excuse. There’s a practicality element to chasing fines; you’re unlikely to bother chasing someone outside the UK, let alone the EU, for doing 34mph in a 30, but whether you’ve done that knowingly, because you’re late for a flight or any other made up ‘justification’ is a total irrelevance. You certainly don’t “have to let people go”, why would you? You seem very confused about what you’re even talking about.

    orangespyderman

    Grow up.

    I asked for advice as to what was likely to happen, not how to avoid any consequences. You also missed that.

    They’re repatriating in the summer and are flying back in March to house hunt. They are genuinely worried they’ll be pulled off to the side at immigration.

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    Well they will find out when they land, the Hire car company will forward license details so regardless of what the put on the form if China cooperates their details will be provided. If a conviction is recorded then they can probably expect to face the consequences when they get back.

    chewkw
    Member

    njee20 – Member
    Ignorance is no excuse. There’s a practicality element to chasing fines; you’re unlikely to bother chasing someone outside the UK, let alone the EU, for doing 34mph in a 30, but whether you’ve done that knowingly, because you’re late for a flight or any other made up ‘justification’ is a total irrelevance. You certainly don’t “have to let people go”, why would you? You seem very confused about what you’re even talking about.

    Of course there is no excuse for speeding but people are people some just forget. I am not talking about driving 34mph in 30mph zone, I am talking about M1 where I can easily drive at 100mph without knowing if I come from other country. Note that they use KMph so they might simply have forgotten whatever …

    Of course all excuses are irrelevant etc …

    For example, yes it’s speeding on M1 so the person apologises etc then promises to drive slowly to airport and tell police to follow if the wish to make sure whatever …

    Question is if the driver co-operates so what is the traffic police going to do to the person? Detain the person? You want to jail the person until the court case? Who is going to pay for the bill? The speeder and what if the person does not want to pay the bill for the do you jail the person longer? What if you apply too much heavy handed approach by detaining the person longer than expected? What if their lawyers argue and win about being detain longer than necessary when the person co-operated? All just because of speeding on M1?

    In my case even I was let off at 100mph over taking police at 70mph during the day full view of all other traffics. I/we were not detained but obviously received court paper later on where we admitted guilt.

    I have been watching Traffic Police on telly chasing speeding cars and very seldom do they even detain the driver apart from giving them fines or go to court. If the car is not taxed or roadworthy they just take the car away and Not even detaining the driver which is much more of a serious offense in my view. They only detain people who are criminals driving like criminals. i.e. stolen cars or put public in danger in the housing areas.

    Basically, your answer above is very simple. The law is powerless when it comes to Non-EU or even EU people breaking the speed limit if countries have no agreement. You can arrest them etc if the person(s)/visitor(s) come back or refuse them entry in future but other than that there is nothing the law can do to ordinary speeding. If there is accident and life involved that is another matter but if it is normal speeding nothing. Yes, it is wrong etc but the law is powerless especially if the person has left the country.

    Quirrel – Member

    πŸ˜† Yes, that is exactly the case. We use KM in the far east and when I first drove here I had to constantly remind myself.

    mikewsmith – Member
    Well they will find out when they land, the Hire car company will forward license details so regardless of what the put on the form if China cooperates their details will be provided. If a conviction is recorded then they can probably expect to face the consequences when they get back.

    (Note: I am merely using China as an example but I am actually referring to all non-EU countries)

    You can forward as much details as you wish to China but whether they co-operate or not is an entirely different matter because the person has not committed offense in China. Although s/he is Chinese citizen s/he is a private individual responsible for him/herself when s/he is abroad that I can be 100% sure. We have Chinese tourists in S.E.Asia and even we/govt complain to the Chinese govt, all the Chinese govt did was to “educate” the people by telling them to respect others when traveling that’s all.

    Xylene
    Member

    ^ I just find it hard when I get back to the UK not to undertake people there on the motorway. It’s the norm here, and legal.

    Was there not a driver of a fast GTR or something like that who came to the UK, did 200mph on the motorway and got caught a few years back? I think he was from Japan, not China.

    cornholio98
    Member

    If the fine is issued to the rental company they will probably pay it and spank the credit card or They could pass details on and he would obviously miss the court date then get more fines but as he was using a foreign license it will probably stop there especially if he is no longer in the uk

    Other countries (Australia especially ) do say that if the fine is not paid they will potentially put a hold on visas being issued so you can’t re-enter.

    I wouldn’t worry as it will probably come to at worst a fine.

    Xylene
    Member

    [video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Td1E9_eOPk[/video]

    chewkw
    Member

    Quirrel – Member

    ^ I just find it hard when I get back to the UK not to undertake people there on the motorway. It’s the norm here, and legal.

    Was there not a driver of a fast GTR or something like that who came to the UK, did 200mph on the motorway and got caught a few years back? I think he was from Japan, not China.

    Some of our roads have speed limit of 100km/h, so when they come over the 100km/h is also automatically “equal to 100mph”.

    I had to remind myself all the time when I first started to drive.

    chewkw
    Member

    cornholio98 – Member
    If the fine is issued to the rental company they will probably pay it and spank the credit card or They could pass details on and he would obviously miss the court date then get more fines but as he was using a foreign license it will probably stop there especially if he is no longer in the uk

    The way forward is to get the car rental company to charge the driver through the credit card. Including all cost. Therefore, it will only be fines.

    Other countries (Australia especially ) do say that if the fine is not paid they will potentially put a hold on visas being issued so you can’t re-enter.

    Yes, this make more sense but I do not think UK is doing this … yet.

    I wouldn’t worry as it will probably come to at worst a fine.

    That’s what I have been saying the driver is going to get fine. After that it is up to the conscious of the person whether to pay the fine or not. If s/he is a genuine person s/he will pay the fine otherwise the person got off.

    After that it is up to the conscious of the person whether to pay the fine or not. I

    He’s English and is moving home after years away. I don’t know if the fine is automatically paid or not through the rental agency.

    I suspect he’d pay the fine simply for peace of mind.

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    They’re driving in a foreign country, in a car they don’t know, at a good 50% above the speed limit? Yes, absolutely, armed police will be waiting for them if they arrive here, tell them not to come back.

    For example, say someone from Indonesia has been caught speeding on M1 because the driver is on the way to the airport to catch the plane.

    It’s a well documented fact that speed limits don’t apply if you’re in a bit of a hurry.

    We use KM in the far east and when I first drove here I had to constantly remind myself.

    If you can’t tell the difference between miles and kilometers, take the train.

    ^ I just find it hard when I get back to the UK not to undertake people there on the motorway. It’s the norm here, and legal.

    It’s legal here too.

    Premier Icon leffeboy
    Subscriber

    If the fine is issued to the rental company they will probably pay it and spank the credit card or

    I got flashed in France for speeding in a hire, I live in Belgium. the process was:
    The police contact the hire car company
    They give the police my details and charge me an admin fee on my card. They don’t pay any fine
    The police write to me at the address given
    I write back and pay the fine

    In this case they write to the tenants and if you are lucky the tenants pass the message to your friends. What happens after that depends on whether or not they want to fess up. I can’t imagine that anyone will do any chasing, it just isn’t worth it

    It will sit on record though so if they got stopped again with the chinese licence it would get picked up.

    Depends how risk averse they are. Not very if they drive at 120 I guess

    wobbliscott
    Member

    Flash “singular” No camera in the box.

    This is not true. The old rear facing Gatso cameras do flash twice and require a set of lines on the road so the speed can be verified by measuring the distance from two photo’s. These did still flash twice if they run out of film.

    But the current and more modern Truvelo forward facing cameras only flash once and don’t need the graduated lines on the road to verify the speed by two photo’s.

    Normally if you get caught over 100mph then an automatic ban is on the cards unless you get a good solicitor to get the sentence reduced to points and a hefty fine. Though at 120mph you’d need a cracking solicitor. I suspect for a foreigner we’d have very little leverage to chase in any fines and would probably cost more in international bureaucracy to collect than the fine is worth so I suspect nothing will happen. If the driver still has a UK licence then that would get confiscated, but I doubt we have the databases to link a UK DVLA driver number to a foreign license to police any future visits. Probably would have been a different story if the Police actually pulled him over it would have been different.

    But what if someone accidentally break the rules for genuine reason? (non-EU/UK citizen and from a country with no agreement with EU/UK)

    Ignorance is no defence in the eyes of the law, as I am about to find out and pay for. 😐

    For example, say someone from Indonesia has been caught speeding on M1 because the driver is on the way to the airport to catch the plane. The police issues the driver a ticket, the driver admits speeding but after that continues with driving to the airport to fly home never to return to UK again. How to deal with this case?

    Two scenarios, the first being that the police with pursue the driver through the hire company, the second being that the driver is in own foreign plated car where the police are unlikely to pursue without info exchange agreement.

    Of course there is no excuse for speeding but people are people some just forget. I am not talking about driving 34mph in 30mph zone, I am talking about M1 where I can easily drive at 100mph without knowing if I come from other country. Note that they use KMph so they might simply have forgotten whatever …

    Driving at 100mph on a motorway has you travelling significantly faster than other traffic, this should raise alarm bells, if nothing else does.

    I am amused that you’ve just discovered that EU citizens don’t get treated differently, one of your reasons for disliking the EU. And I have to question how many other areas you are ignorant of. The field is probably leveller than what you reckon. πŸ™‚

    chewkw
    Member

    captainsasquatch – Member
    I am amused that you’ve just discovered that EU citizens don’t get treated differently, one of your reasons for disliking the EU. And I have to question how many other areas you are ignorant of. The field is probably leveller than what you reckon.

    Of course it is different you cannot impose on a driver from Non-EU countries while in EU the chances are higher if there is a will to pursue the matter after all you are in EU. From far east or other non-EU countries the chance is nil … πŸ˜†

    Of course it is different you cannot impose on a driver from Non-EU countries while in EU the chances are higher if there is a will to pursue the matter after all you are in EU. From far east or other non-EU countries the chance is nil …

    No it’s not, the countries have to agree to share info whether in the EU or not. The chances are not higher at all. FACT. πŸ˜†
    You can’t delude yourself on this one.

    chewkw
    Member

    captainsasquatch – Member
    No it’s not, the countries have to agree to share info whether in the EU or not. The chances are not higher at all. FACT.
    You can’t delude yourself on this one.

    If you have different systems in EU like not co-operating by sharing info like this with each other then what is the point of EU. πŸ˜†

    If you have different systems in EU like not co-operating by sharing info like this with each other then what is the point of EU.

    I can see how thinking like that has caused mass mis-understanding of the workings of the EU, Thankfully you didn’t have a vote or you might have used it badly without being properly informed. πŸ˜†
    I imagine the EU is all about trade relations and stopping people fighting, allowing people to move around transferring skills and learning new things. Fortunately that’s all being knocked on the head.

    chewkw
    Member

    Slight hijack here … it’s about speeding but now EU.

    captainsasquatch – Member
    I can see how thinking like that has caused mass mis-understanding of the workings of the EU, …

    You have inconsistencies in the EU system so no matter how you try to argue they are inconsistent and will never be fair or equal.

    I imagine the EU is all about trade relations and stopping people fighting, allowing people to move around transferring skills and learning new things. Fortunately that’s all being knocked on the head.

    Trade relationship is nothing to shout about because we all trade regardless but with EU system it is the enlargement of the political system that is totally out of control.

    You’ve seen your arse, mate. πŸ˜†

    chewkw
    Member
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