- This topic has 107 replies, 54 voices, and was last updated 9 years ago by benji.
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Advanced driving
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moshimonsterFree Member
It bugs me and hence I cannot get the IAM observer in our office to discuss it at all , I know they think that by making the decision whether or not to indicate is a kind of test of observation for every change of direction – but
they cannot cope with the concept of the unknown or sudden change of circumstances at all.I agree and always thought that was a dodgy practice. You should of course be observant, but always indicate regardless in my book. I don’t see any downside to indicating at all.
moshimonsterFree MemberThe problem I have is with the name. Advanced doesn’t fit. Call it defensive, safe, pro-active, considerate or anything that implies it is of benefit to all rather than an excuse to go faster for petrolheads.
I agree with the naming misfit, but IAM = petrolheads I really don’t think so!
EdukatorFree MemberNor me, moshimonster, it’s the impression the word “advanced” creates.
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I agree with the naming misfit, but IAM = petrolheads I really don’t think so!
I think they generally are, it’s just a really different tribe of petrolhead.
moshimonster – Member
I agree and always thought that was a dodgy practice. You should of course be observant, but always indicate regardless in my book. I don’t see any downside to indicating at all.
How it was explained to me, is that it’s basically a hack- looking and then deciding whether or not to indicate forces observation and thought (also useful from an observer’s point of view I reckon!). I can see the sense in that, though I don’t think it’s useful for me personally and I can see downsides to it.
moshimonsterFree Memberand I can see downsides to it.
You can do all the observational stuff and still indicate anyway. That eliminates the obvious downside of not indicating when you happen to have missed something (because you are human).
NorthwindFull Membermoshimonster – Member
You can do all the observational stuff and still indicate anyway.
Yup, exactly- but the difference between can, and have to, is pretty big.
There’s a balance of benefits thing here… I feel like I have pretty good obs, years of urban pushbike and motorbike riding pretty much takes away any choice in the matter! So if you’re already observing well, or if you’re a person that will take on the lesson well, then the don’t indicate schtick probably isn’t useful. But it’s not really for you- it’s a tool to help get people who don’t have good obs, to develop them, and if need be to force them.
So you can argue that it falls down, because it treats everyone the same and could be a medication with detrimental side-effects, for an ailment you don’t have. But you can also say, maybe on balance giving everyone the medicine has positive effects. I don’t know which is right but I can see both arguments.
moshimonsterFree MemberSo if you passed your IAM, would you continue to only indicate when you thought it was necessary?
finishthatFree MemberWell argued points here – I can understand the IAM method/reasoning medicine ,
sadly I think the medicine is taken after the symptoms have been cured.. addiction and long term side effects .
I have never asked about the indicator thing in urban verses rural locations
I guess its normally busy enough during the day to force the indicate , its at night when there are very few folks around that I imagine all these IAM folks swerving around without obvious reason .
I am not going to ask our observer its too much bother.horaFree MemberEveryone could do with an independent assessment of their driving- even a friend could interject/give pointers from observing. The problem with a friend is no bloke likes his driving or lovemaking critised. Is IAM the right way? Who knows, I don’t agree with wearing a badge on your car though as some sort of medal/righteous-show. I’ve seen IAM-badged cars middle-laning on the motorway before.
OP- What specifically was pointed out about your driving?
speed12Free MemberAs driving (very expensive) prototype vehicles is part of my job, we have to have a driver assessment/coaching every 2 years and it really is brilliant. It’s just enough to knock off the bad habits everyone picks up and give you a good chance to re-assess your own driving. We use this lot:
Highly reccomend them. The instructors will pick you up on bad habits but not to the point of nitpicking – If it’s an unsafe habit you’ll get the ‘correct’ way hammered home, but if it is just a difference to what they do (e.g. the indiciator thing above) then as long as you are shown to be safe whilst doing it then all is good.
The additional roadcraft they teach does have an element of ‘making progress’ but only to the point of getting you to be able to drive safely and legally without having to drive 10mph below the limit. All of the ‘making progress’ stuff is actually more about observation, road positioning, and escape routes than it is about driving fast.
I’d definitely reccomend a refresher/advanced course of some sort as you really can see where you’ve picked up bad habits and hopefully get rid of them. I’m certainly not claiming to be a driving god after having done their courses, but I do find myself driving ‘better’ on the roads (which I appreciate is massively subjective).
xiphonFree MemberAll of the ‘making progress’ stuff is actually more about observation, road positioning, and escape routes than it is about driving fast.
But those elements do enable you to drive faster* on a road.
Like cutting up the inside of a corner, enabling your line to be much straighter, thus carrying more speed through it. It goes without saying you must be able to see the road is clear, not driving on the other side of the road blind!
And also dropping down gears prior to entering the corner, keeping your engine in the ‘torque range’ for accelerating out of the bend.
* faster does not mean above the speed limit.
EDIT: And on the topic of indicating, I do it regardless of who’s around (or not). I don’t care if I’m on a dead-end road at 2am – I’ll still indicate properly, as I don’t know for sure I’m the only person about.
EdukatorFree MemberUsing the observation stuff just means you’re less likely to get hit by others or hit things you didn’t see but would have if you’d been better positioned and looking in the right place. It works even at very low speed.
Do they really have IAM badges on their cars? I’d rather put an L-plate on.
wilburtFree Membermartinhutch – Member
What is this ‘making progress’ thing I hear so much about? Is it mainly about making progress faster than the car in front of you?Good question..It seems to be something some fool once wrote in a driving instructor manual and is now spouted by every other fool who can’t see the world from any other perspective than inside a car..
Curious thing about speed limits is they are the only law I can think of that NOT breaking is socially unacceptable and travelling even a small amount below them picks you out as public enemy number one.
Crazy.
EdukatorFree Membereven a small amount below them picks you out as public enemy number one
I used to love driving my French-registered white van around the UK. Most people don’t realise that the white van limit is 10mph lower than cars on many roads. The combination of foreign, 10mph too slow and white van produced some really intersting reactions.
DracFull MemberDo you mention that to your car insurance people? I haven’t, as I heard a rumour that it might actually increase premiums!
Nah! As I guessed given them my job title is enough.
speed12Free MemberBut those elements do enable you to drive faster* on a road.
Yes, sorry, absolutely. What I was trying to say is that the proper view of ‘making progress’ is about driving confidently and – much more importantly – safely to the road conditions and other drivers to get from A to B in the shortest, but legal and safest time – if that makes sense. So it’s not necessarily about driving fast and there may well be times and situations where ‘making progress’ actually means driving a fair amount below the speed limit for the road as it is the only safe way to proceed.
Someone mentioned above about ‘collecting’ cars behind you if there is a potentially dangerous section of road ahead – this would be an example where actually slowing down a bit (not brake testing the cars behind mind and not slowing too much to annoy them) will actually mean you can progress more smoothly through the proceeding section of road.
horaFree MemberDo they really have IAM badges on their cars?
I see loads- plus bonnets open, tyre wall damage, etc etc. You’d think I’d be better off paying attention to the road.
maxtorqueFull Memberspeed12
Someone mentioned above about ‘collecting’ cars behind you if there is a potentially dangerous section of road ahead – this would be an example where actually slowing down a bit (not brake testing the cars behind mind and not slowing too much to annoy them) will actually mean you can progress more smoothly through the proceeding section of road.
And the opposite is also true. On say a busy dual carriageway, if you accelerate faster than a gaggle of cars behind you, coming up to the nest roundabout, for example, you can be off and away, round it, before all the numpties catch up and try to crash into the back of you because they aren’t paying attention….
(often if i’m at the “front” of any queue, and it is safe to do so, i will deliberately temporarily exceed the speed limit (not in 30/40mph zones mind) in order to have a clear road, both in front and behind.)
speed12Free MemberYes, absolutely – the main thing we are told is that the only thing you can control is your own car; so make sure that it is driven and positioned correctly and safely, and if needs be use it to ‘force’ others to give you margin (in a safe manner).
Daisy_DukeFree MemberRH, FWIW im doing my IAM advanced motorcycle at the moment and about to take my test in a week or so. I’ve really enjoyed it. Yes, some of my observers have been a little stale, but not all. Learnt loads. I guess the same can be said for doing the car version.
xiphonFree MemberAnd the opposite is also true. On say a busy dual carriageway, if you accelerate faster than a gaggle of cars behind you, coming up to the nest roundabout, for example, you can be off and away, round it, before all the numpties catch up and try to crash into the back of you because they aren’t paying attention….
You’ll still have to slam the anchors on when you get to the roundabout if a motorist (or cyclist!) is coming from your right…. doesn’t sound very wise to me.
RobHiltonFree Memberif you use your indicators when the IAM observer thinks it was not needed – then you will be marked down
Same in regular driving test – or at least it was; I got 3 minor points for this. Wondered why the examiner kept getting me to pull over.
pictonroadFull MemberI saw a bloke with an IAM fleece on “tut” himself into a red faced frenzy in the petrol station yesterday. Lady in front of him couldn’t get her card to read in the machine.
This was impairing him from making progress in his immaculate Vauxhall Insignia. (cos STW loves it when you quote the make…)
prejudices: confirmed.
mrchrispyFull MemberCBA to read the thread but has anyone said ‘making progress’ yet?
benjiFree MemberSo if you passed your IAM, would you continue to only indicate when you thought it was necessary?
Yes, you might also want to read police roadcraft and some of the books by Paul Ripley.
No I don’t have a badge on my car or my motorbike, I chose not to boast of my advanced status 😉
In the days of ebay, people will buy whatever badge they want to put on themselves or their vehicle to keep up with their own ego, whether they deserve it or not.
horaFree MemberI made good progreas in the lakes last night, minimal use of brake pedal, lift in advance, gearing down etc and smooth&quick. No drama. I imagine a IAM driver would have classed my speed as excess mind…
benjiFree MemberI imagine a IAM driver would have classed my speed as excess mind…
The big question is was it appropriate to all the conditions and hazards?
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