Nickc  what have I not understonnd?  Educate me as webby stuff is not something I really understand

I do know that Mark has said in the past that the ads on the forum make the money that allows for the rest of STW.  ONly the forum runs at a profit.

Less forum posters = less advertising revenue = less money to pay salaries of the folk that make the rest of STW

Thus the forum is the foundation of the rest of the site.  No ?

<div class=”bbp-reply-author”>squirrelking
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How does a couple of quid a month sound? Mark has told you how to turn off the adds. And as demonstrated by this post, usability is just fine.

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And as demonstrrated by these posts, that’s clearly not always the case: 😃

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yup just fine

So, if I subscribe, things might get better at some point in the future. Or they might not. Hmm. Let me think about that for  a moment….

So, if I subscribe, things might get better at some point in the future. Or they might not. Hmm. Let me think about that for  a moment….

Well if you subscribe things get better right then and there because you can turn the ads off, right?

I do find it amazing how people manage to moan about a service which is to all intents and purposes provided to them essentially free at the point of use.

I do have something positive to add, subscribe, get rid of the ads, I can’t think of anything more positive to the site.

I can, how about listening to the people that are saying the ads aren’t the problem as opposed to the symptom?

Regarding something positive to add, how is, “i’m not paying, if you don’t fix this, I’m just going to greet and moan then eventually piss off” constructive?

It’s called an opinion, I know people here have great difficulty with the notion that others exist and that healthy open minded debate can be had but it can. TJ and I (and others) are simply putting forward the notion that all is not well and perhaps if Mark wants more money in the bank then he could do something simple to encourage people to give him some. If you’re happy to pay for a sub-standard product (opinion again) then batter in, I’m not going to shout you down for it but don’t start taking the hump and telling folk they are wrong when they tell you why they won’t.

As for i’m alright jack, not really, I’m just not am entitled fud like yourself. I get the bbcode issues too, it’s not exactly difficult to fix your posts. Would I like it fixed, yes. But it’s not a deal breaker.

I can’t fix mine, in fact the system throws a few more paragraph breaks in every time I edit it! That is the whole problem. But of course, how silly of me, every time the forum shits the bed it’s clearly the end users fault.

As for i’m alright jack, not really, I’m just not am entitled fud like yourself.

Yeah, because getting personal with folk is a time proven method of getting your point across.

Well if you subscribe things get better right then and there because you can turn the ads off, right?

Quite so. But the rest of the usability issues remain.

Apparently I’m a tightwad if I want a product finished before I buy it. Interesting business model.

Oh and the notifications don’t work either. Another one for the “it’s all good” list.

Apparently I’m a tightwad if I want a product finished before I buy it. Interesting business model.

Oh I definitely get that, that’s why I’ve never backed anything on Kickstarter…

Maybe it comes down to different perceptions of value. I perceive that spending £2 a month to support a business that has given (and continues to give) me pleasure in a really important area of my life is pretty great value in the scheme of things. I perceive spending the best part of £4 on a Starbucks coffee to be pretty poor value. So I don’t buy stupid coffees and I do pay Singletrack some money.

Another thing that just occurred to me actually, is a website/magazine/community ever really complete? At what point does it tip over into the ‘yes I’ll pay money now’ category? There’s definitely a bunch of features people would like, but I slightly suspect that even if they were all delivered first thing on Monday morning some people would still find a reason not to sign up.

There’s definitely a bunch of features people would like, but I slightly suspect that even if they were all delivered first thing on Monday morning some people would still find a reason not to sign up.

On the other hand, there are some people, me included, who would re-subscribe gladly.

I used to subscribe. It was mostly OK at the time.

I don’t subscribe now, but I would happily do so again in the future partly to get rid of the adverts, and partly to support something worthwhile, *if* the glaring deficiencies get fixed *and* my money is going to go towards the forum, rather than cross-subsidizing things I’m not interested in.

Please don’t call me a “tightwad”, that doesn’t help anyone.

On the other hand, there are some people, me included, who would re-subscribe gladly.

same here. I’ve gone from being a print subscriber to both Singletrack and Grit.cx to none,  in around 12 months.  Lack of money or being tight is not the reason.

edit: quoting is wrong way round and it won’t edit properly on an iPhone. Obviously

Some people want to pay subs some people don’t. I don’t why Paying £2 a month makes you more a part of this community that creating and responding to threads. Interesting, useful and funny posts are what make me come here.

I have to sign in every time i visit the site, this often takes ages due to the adds

The dedicated login page – http://singletrackworld.com/wp-login.php – doesn’t have any adverts at all.  Bookmark that?

editing your post after submit doesn’t work properly

It does, it just takes a few seconds for your edits to be visible because the previous page is still cached. Count to 30 and hit refresh and it should be fine.

my issue is with the shite software the site uses and not wishing to validate it
…
they had the chance with the new forum

My understanding is that the whole point of the upgrade is that the forum and the rest of the site is now the same single platform rather than a hodgepodge of disparate systems hacked together over the years by successive developers. Changing the forum software isn’t as simple as, well, changing the forum software because it would impact the rest of the site and be a step backwards under the hood.

I feel very strongly that they have their priorities wrong.

I’d rather more focus was given to the forum too. However, I have little doubt that I know considerably less about the site, the process and the business, and what works and what doesn’t, than someone who’s actually been running it for a couple of decades.

I would pay a reasonable amount to be a forum only member.

What would you consider a “reasonable amount,” out of interest?

I expect the danger with a “forum only” sub would be the sense of entitlement suddenly going stratospheric. “Why isn’t everything fixed now, I gave you 50p yesterday!!”  It’s certainly not a business model I’d enter into lightly if I were STW.

If it’s a case of unifying all the systems as a single step towards something better I can get with that. But that’s never been said or implied by anyone in a position to do so, if it was the case I can’t imagine why they wouldn’t just say so.

As it is, with all the bugs and the way it has been done I reckon just archiving the previous content and starting a fresh would have been less hassle, its not like the old topic posts actually get served in chronological order anyway.

. “Why isn’t everything fixed now, I gave you 50p yesterday!!”  It’s certainly not a business model I’d enter into lightly if I were STW.

Especially as paying more still leaves you being told it’s not important and stop asking.

Last update was nothing is going to be done

But ultimately, I’m beyond spending my time making the site work to the satisfaction of people that don’t contribute their own cash to what we do,

Where have all the emoji gone? 🙁

Just out of interest, I would like to donate to the site, but don’t really want a premier sub.

Would STW towers rather me sign up for a year as premier for business reasons or could I just donate the same amount via Paypal?

All ads, facebook crap, trackers and third party cookies and scripts are blocked on this site anyway, so there is no real reason for me to buy a sub, unless the actual number of subs sold has some benefit to our illustrious overlords or something.

And yeah, as said above,the emoji panel has buggered off.

If it’s a case of unifying all the systems as a single step towards something better I can get with that. But that’s never been said or implied by anyone in a position to do so, if it was the case I can’t imagine why they wouldn’t just say so.

It has, though it probably got lost in the noise.

Just out of interest, I would like to donate to the site, but don’t really want a premier sub.

There used to to be a donation button, but literally no one used it, unless they were getting something extra in return (a change of tag, iirc)

Next up – You’ve already used your 2 free forum posts today, 50p to post again or get 3 additional posts for a £1.

I think the whole pop-up ad thing is very clever. Assuming STW get some cash every time someone clicks through to another site, using ads that miraculously pop up and/or move position at random means that a click intended for navigating within the site can generate click-through revenue all on its own.

Genius.

I do wonder sometimes whether some people are career trolls or just idiots.  There needs to be some sort of Poe’s Law equivalent to cover this.

I do wonder sometimes whether some people are career trolls or just idiots.  There needs to be some sort of Poe’s Law equivalent to cover this.

Wonder away, but it doesn’t mean it isn’t happening………

You’re exasperated at the complaints, I’m exasperated at the stuff that causes people to complain. Whatever shall we do?

Whatever shall we do?

Buy a sub? 😆

It’s the equivalent of buying the bar staff a pint every couple of months!

And you lot do know that, when you do this, the bar staff will usually look for and serve you first! 😆

Buy a sub?

Does that fix the bugs?

Does that fix the bugs?

I’d think it probably would, if they go up enough. At a minimum it would get rid of the ads for everyone(that much has been stated).

I’d think it probably would, if they go up enough. At a minimum it would get rid of the ads for everyone(that much has been stated).

The only add that causes me trouble is the one telling me this site is paid for by adds! The rest of the adds don’t bother me.

Even if we dont buy a sub we still contribute to the forum.

Without content the forum will not exist.  There needs to be a better balance.

Fix the forum and end up with more content.

Just telling anyone who complains to buy a sub is not the best way to treat those who actually provide the content.

Just telling anyone who complains to buy a sub is not the best way to treat those who actually provide the content.

It’s also really short sighted.

You’re exasperated at the complaints, I’m exasperated at the stuff that causes people to complain. Whatever shall we do?

I have no issues with justified complaints, I have issues with spurious ones.

I’m “exasperated” that any regular contributor would seriously consider the notion that the nature in which the site renders is deliberate in order to drive up revenue through misclicks.  You either don’t really believe that in which case you’re trolling, or you do believe it in which case you’re (in the literal rather than pejorative sense) ignorant.

I probably shouldn’t mention Hanlon’s Razor here.

I’m “exasperated” that any regular contributor would seriously consider the notion that the nature in which the site renders is deliberate in order to drive up revenue through misclicks.

No and very seriously given the way many things are implemented I’d not have faith anything like that could be implemented successfully.

Just telling anyone who complains to buy a sub is not the best way to treat those who actually provide the content.

It it is a sad state of affairs when the magazine, reviews, articles etc are no longer considered the content but the bickering of randoms in a chat room…

mind you I only used to go on Facebook to read the rants and arguments on the trending section

It it is a sad state of affairs when the magazine, reviews, articles etc are no longer considered the content but the bickering of randoms in a chat room…

Well if nobody read it there would be no ads here, the ads are here to make money to fund part of. Stw. The threads, jokes and fun provides revenue

The threads, jokes and fun provides revenue

less these days it seems.

Incidently, your opinions here are based on a bit of a misreading of this comment. no?

Last update was nothing is going to be done

But ultimately, I’m beyond spending my time making the site work to the satisfaction of people that don’t contribute their own cash to what we do.

I don’t read that as nothing is going to be done for subscribers.

It it is a sad state of affairs when the magazine, reviews, articles etc are no longer considered the content but the bickering of randoms in a chat room…

If that’s where more users spend more time, then that’s where the most valuable content is.

It might be “sad” but you were here at least long enough to post and read the thread, so you are generating revenue by being part of the traffic, and creating some content.

given the way many things are implemented I’d not have faith anything like that could be implemented successfully.

I shouldn’t, but I laughed.  Thanks for that. (-:

I don’t read that as nothing is going to be done for subscribers.

Unless there is a 2 tier forum where the fixes only get applied to p members then nowt is going to be done. The lack of a stuff we are fixing list etc. and the I see no problems it’s all in your mind attitude conforms this.

I have no issues with justified complaints, I have issues with spurious ones.

I’m “exasperated” that any regular contributor would seriously consider the notion that the nature in which the site renders is deliberate in order to drive up revenue through misclicks.  You either don’t really believe that in which case you’re trolling, or you do believe it in which case you’re (in the literal rather than pejorative sense) ignorant.

I probably shouldn’t mention Hanlon’s Razor here.

@Cougar

OK. I don’t seriously consider that the forum/site would actually try to increase click-through revenue by misclicks caused by ads jumping around and/or appearing from nowhere.

When I get exasperated, in real life as well as on the Looking Glass world that is STW, I often resort to being a bit sarcastic and flippant. In real life, I often smile to people as I’m doing this as a bit of humour can lighten the mood if I am making a complaint.

I am not trolling.

Ads do fairly regularly jump into view as I’m about to click – especially on the banner heading for ‘Forum’ etc at the top. This is when using Safari on an iPad. I have inadvertently visited the Commencal shop site as a result. Presumably this might count as click-through – although I imagine that a secondary click within the site might be required – I don’t know (I am not one of the Internet Illuminati).

Since the ‘upgrade’ the forum has been less usable and more flaky – in my experience (as with many others it would seem).

Does it bother me that Mark isn’t as concerned about forum users without a ‘P’? No, not really. That’s fair enough, but I don’t actually have to use this forum/site at all if I think it doesn’t work properly and gets on my wick. Whether you guys would view ‘losing’ me as a problem or not doesn’t massively bother me to be honest.

You can mention “Hanlon’s Razor” if you like – although I haven’t got a clue what it is – but I suspect it is something that forum elites everywhere use as a sort of in-joke put-down(?) I’m not even interested enough to google it to help compose a retort…….

Interesting that the likes of Jamie can make witty asides about this stuff without being ‘Cougared’ though – it’s a bit like a clique in some ways (sarcasm and flippancy again there – I just can’t help myself).

Old style business models struggle with social media / internet and this sort of stuff.

We have a perfect storm:

Print media is in a death spiral

Subscriptions are eroded by free content on the site

The providers of the forum content are being ignored, or not treated fairly from their point of view

The unpaid Mods are the ones having to deal with the fall out

The business is chasing smaller bits of revenue from ads that annoy the users

These sorts of issues need to be addressed fast otherwise opportunities to get better / grow will be lost and the whole thing could fail.  Slowly or quickly, depending on the competition.

Subscriptions are eroded by free content on the site

The free content that doesn’t appear in the mag?