Ad Spoiling – New Rule: Don't do it. It's very annoying!

Home Forum Classifieds – For Sale Ad Spoiling – New Rule: Don't do it. It's very annoying!

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  • Ad Spoiling – New Rule: Don't do it. It's very annoying!
  • Premier Icon convert
    Subscriber

    How about this as an amicable solution

    1. The rule stays in place

    but…

    2. Sellers can only ‘list’ their item once in a week (helps to stop the same old over priced stuff appearing every day)

    3. Sellers have to have a viewable email address in their profile so that if a potential buyer does want to point out a pricing discrepancy or request a price match they can – at the moment too many sellers are not contactable other than via the forum

    This all seems very sensible to me. I don’t use the classified anything like as much as I could simply because it’s flooded with over priced tat (often posted by people who only come here to sell – and seem to be selling way more stuff than a normal rider would have to sell) that is reposted again and again and again so the bits and bobs worth looking for disappear into page 3 or 4 way too fast. If the community can’t regulate against these plonkers by showing them up for what they are at least limit the “damage” done by reducing their ability to repost. I’d go as far as saying every user name can only put up one for sale post per week which would also be a nice way to make this a less useful place to come for traders. This would in no way inconvienience a normal recreational rider looking to move on the odd bit of kit after an upgrade which after all is what this part of the forum is actually meant to be for.

    Marko
    Member

    So seller has no email in their profile, only posts on the classifieds and over prices an item and I’m supposed to keep quiet?

    Sorry, but if I spot something I consider a rip off, as an upstanding member of the ‘community’ I’d feel duty bound to point it out to other members.

    Daft rule and I shall ignore it. (Not that I’ve felt the need to take this course of action yet though).

    Marko

    Premier Icon Mark
    Subscriber

    The rule has now been added to the rules page. May be worth a look.

    Premier Icon Mark
    Subscriber

    3. Sellers have to have a viewable email address in their profile so that if a potential buyer does want to point out a pricing discrepancy or request a price match they can – at the moment too many sellers are not contactable other than via the forum

    I like this idea. I’ll talk with the mods and tech about. Thanks

    Premier Icon rickon
    Subscriber

    2. Sellers can only ‘list’ their item once in a week (helps to stop the same old over priced stuff appearing every day)

    3. Sellers have to have a viewable email address in their profile so that if a potential buyer does want to point out a pricing discrepancy or request a price match they can – at the moment too many sellers are not contactable other than via the forum

    My thoughts on the proposal quoted

    I really abject to like the first rule. I post on the classifieds, and the forum quite a bit, so think I’m qualified to comment.

    All the items I sell on the classifieds are priced fairly, some are bargains mainly because of the condition I keep my kit in, so it needs find the ‘right’ buyer. Someone after a bargain because kit is in ‘as new’ condition, or at least very good condition – but not at rock bottom prices; this takes a few days to find that person, as most quick sales are impulsive, cheap buys.

    Add to this the fact you can’t post more than 2 threads a day (well on the first page), which means if I have a bike split I need to have a sale with about 12 items in it and split it over 2 threads.

    Most of the time people can’t be bothered looking into FS threads with more than one or two items in, because it’s not focused. So, I end up posting the same thread quite a bit over a couple of weeks, picking off items as they’re sold.

    I’m not a shop, or selling overpriced tat. All my kit is good quality, fairly priced, and I’m open to haggling. Plus I post next day by first class recorded or special delivery most times.

    3rd point made is very good – you really should have an email present in your profile if you’re selling.

    But only allowing sellers to post an item once a week is bonkers, as some users don’t log on every day, or once 12 hours has past and the thread drops off the first page, it wont be seen again by many users.

    My thoughts on the new rule

    I do appreciate opinions, as if someone can buy something I’ve got at the same price, brand new, then they should. And I should either lower my price, or wait until the deal for the brand new kit is not on anymore. STW is a community first and foremost, and we should look to protect the members, not the ones who exploit it.

    STW set the rules, fair enough and that’s how it should be. But as a community member I should welcome healthy debate – not hope that someone doesn’t find the £170 Reverb I’m selling that’s 6 months old for £130 on CRC with a warranty. If that’s the case I should *want* to help the other members of my community by selling it cheaper, or waiting until the cheap brand new item is not for sale anymore.

    Ricks

    Premier Icon convert
    Subscriber

    But only allowing sellers to post an item once a week is bonkers, as some users don’t log on every day, or once 12 hours has past and the thread drops off the first page, it wont be seen again by many users.

    imo you have cloudy thinking on this. The reason you feel compelled to repost your goods so frequently is because they fall of the page so quickly. The reason they fall off the page so quickly is because everyone is reposting stuff so frequently. If each user name was only able to post once a week I recon your ad would still be on page two by the end of the week.

    Premier Icon Mark
    Subscriber

    Since the moderators are not going to act on the new rule unless it is reported by a seller as a spoiler then surely if they feel helped and supported by having it pointed out on their ad that the item is cheaper somewhere else then those posts won’t be moderated.

    And if sellers must maintain a visible email address as a condition of selling then helpers will be able to send their helpful email direct to the seller thus negating the need for us to deal with spoilers at all.

    So far the view of the moderators has been positive (but not unanimous) towards having to keep a contact email address in your account in order to sell.

    xiphon
    Member

    How about limiting how many new Ad threads someone can post per week?

    Say, limiting a new thread in For Sale to 1 every 48hrs?

    You can reply to others (or your own) as much as you want (unlimited).

    Or another idea…

    How about giving ‘premier’ members a higher priority on the front page? Perhaps it can remain on the first page for a minimum of 3 days?

    What percentage of classifieds posters (for selling anyway) are premier members?

    Food for thought…

    HATERS: WHY DO YOU CARE SO MUCH? Most of you could benefit from reading the rules for starters.

    Scenario: You wouldn’t go into a shop and see something at one price and then walk into another shop and see it cheaper only to then rush back to the first and leave a notice telling everyone else stating its cheaper elsewhere…now would you? NO didn’t think so Your not the shopping police and no one gives a rats arse what you think so go find something better to do!

    THE BOTTOM LINE: If you want to buy it then buy it or negotiate offline with the seller via email. If you don’t like the price then **** off and buy it elsewhere, no one is forcing your hand to click and buy!

    SORRY SINGLETRACK but PINKBIKE is your way forward, you advertise, you sell, you collect. None of this petty boll**ks!

    Unleash the whingers! Losers

    MERRY CHRISTMAS!

    johnners
    Member

    SORRY SINGLETRACK but PINKBIKE is your way forward, you advertise, you sell, you collect. None of this petty boll**ks!

    If PINKBIKE is the way forward then why are you posting dozens of FS items on here on SINGLETRACK?

    Just curious.

    druidh
    Member

    And there we have the considered view of someone who only ever uses the forum as a place to sell stuff……..

    In most of the “I’ve been scammed” threads the feeling is that all communication should be via the forum. That also saves folk posting “I’ll have it” only to find it’s already gone. Now you want to encourage more off-forum communication?

    Have the Poll. If the desire for the new rule really does outweigh the vote against “by an order of magnitude” I’ll eat my hat.

    I’ve had enough, i’ll leave you lot to fight it out, but before I pass out from all this witty banter…

    Johnners, I don’t post anymore as of 2 day’s ago because of craps like this. “Dozens” yeah over 2 yrs and I used to buy alot also.

    Oh and druidh I got to love ya, how do you know I’m only ever selling (you stalking me?, you do know that’s a criminal offence now don’t you…ha ha) I’ve bought tons of stuff in the past. As per above, so do your homework first, as for “outweigh the vote against” best get some ketchup to go with that hat.

    A good site now ruined bye bye stw

    Enjoy

    Premier Icon rickon
    Subscriber

    A good site now ruined bye bye stw

    Bit confused by that statement really, you appear to be for the new rule… so surely that’s a good thing, and the site is better for you?

    imo you have cloudy thinking on this.

    Good point. Be interested to see the MI on this…. i.e. how many unique posts occur each day on the first page.

    As we’re all throwing ideas in, what about promoting your post via a pay option. Like Gumtree, you either have a free post, which eventually disappears off the page, or you pay a fee for 3 or 7 days for it to stay on the front page.

    Give a little cash back to those running the site, or to charity.

    If each premier users’ posts were made a sticky for a couple of days, I’d sign up to be a premier user. That I reckon could do with a poll, as it’s a great idea. Weed out the chaff, gives a little more protection – as you need to pay for the account in the first place, so traceability is ensured.

    Premier Icon Rusty Mac
    Subscriber

    Can’t say I like the new rule, I have always had the impression the forum was a community in which we all look out for each other if that means treading on one persons toes a little and highlighting they are pricing something too high and letting others know so they don’t get ripped off the where is the foul?

    Maybe however by removing this aspect and pushing conversation off the forum away from the community atmosphere it will encourage people to stop and take check of what they are doing – buying off a stranger on the Internet not a shop or a online retailer offering warrantee or convenient form of refund. And not only research the price of the item but the seller to determine if they are happy to do business or not.

    If that is how STW towers want the classifieds to be run then why do they not simply restrict the adverts to a single post and force all comms off the site. This would surely encourage better quality of adverts and force contact details to be left by the seller.

    Junkyard
    Member

    Your not the shopping police and no one gives a rats arse what you think so go find something better to do!

    Well you seem to care and so do STW as they have deemed it not ok to point out something is over priced just because sellers object to this.

    From what i can tell most of these complaining dont subscribe to the mag either

    I agree with Druidh that STW are using complaints as a way of measuring what folk think about STW. It makes no sense to do this and is a deeply flawed sample and unlikely to be reflective if the wider community view – for example this thread is only on classified where it will get noticed by the the classified only users[skewed sample] and it is at best a mixed response.

    Hob Nob
    Member

    It’s a good rule.

    Yes, there may be the odd situation where someone puts something up for sale & at some point in the past 24hrs one of the big online shops has a bumper deal on which affects the items ‘saleability’. I’m sure however if someone is interested they are perfectly capable of using Google to check comparative prices before they commit to buying something…

    The other issue is other items where someone decides to stick an oar in because they think/feel an item is overpriced & just have to tell everyone. If it’s overpriced, then it won’t sell anyway. There is no point in getting all worked up because you feel the community is getting ‘ripped off’ just because you happen to think an item is worth less than a seller does.

    nathaneddy
    Member

    Have to side with the “not good rule” crowd on this one.
    I think it keeps sellers honest (including me) about the real value of what they are selling. It is annoying at times to get a third party comment about a price — but I think it’s a kind of community service.
    How about banning comments on unmown lawns/unkempt rooms in bike shots? 🙂

    Premier Icon Woody
    Subscriber

    2. Sellers can only ‘list’ their item once in a week (helps to stop the same old over priced stuff appearing every day)

    This ^^

    I don’t really care about the new rule, as IMO it’s ‘buyer beware’ with anything in the classifieds but to have to sift through several pages of ads in order to check on all the ‘recent’ items for sale, only to find a high % of them are daily (or more) reposts from people who think their item is far more important than anyone elses, is nothing but selfish.

    jimm
    Member

    Also a good example of why the seller should have a public email address – how else was the potential buyer able to make an offer!

    PeterPoddy
    Member

    Sellers can only ‘list’ their item once in a week

    Stupid idea.
    Lets say I have a clearout with 20 items in it, and I sell 2 every time I post the ad. Do it every day and I sell it all in 10 days, every week and it takes 2 and a half months!

    yetiman1
    Member

    Very interesting reading and………….. I have formed an opinion. I love mountain biking in all it’s guises. It is however a total ripoff! I have mates who run MX bikes for alot less than MTBing costs me. All the people on here will feel the same ‘love’ as me and because of this we pay the VASTLY over inflated prices for new kit. But because of those God dam bankers and the ineptitude of the Government I find myself looking at the classified’s far more frequently of late. STW is a community and we should look out for each other, yes email should be readily available but a heads up on a thread shouldn’t be a crime and the previous post about the Reverb is a top example. It should all be about trust just like PPG payments, we shouldn’t be ripping each other off but you are accountable for your own actions and be prepared to do some research. The only people complaining are probably on a scam and chances are their bankers or politicians!!

    Premier Icon Woody
    Subscriber

    PP

    Do you really think that’s fair on others who only have the odd item to sell and are then quickly pushed off the front page because of your example and others who clutter up the classifieds trying to sell the same item day after day?

    If you want/need to sell quickly there is always fleabay who give you options on BIN and 24 hours or longer.

    Premier Icon rickon
    Subscriber
    Premier Icon rickon
    Subscriber

    The idea of only allowing one post every week probably needs a proof of concept, as it seems like it would be intensive on the admins to patrol the thread, know who posted what that week and then remove the posts.

    The system we have at the moment works fine, there is stuff to scroll down through, but its not SPAM, and it does get sold eventually.

    Holyzeus
    Member

    Ooh only just seen this thread, did i cause it…..?
    If so i received no comms from STW but the thread was pulled.
    IMHO if an item is very overpriced its in everyones interest that they be made aware…..

    on another forum i use you have to have made at least 100 meaningful posts before you can even request access to the classified section, once you have reached 100 posts you then PM one of the Mods and request access, they check your posting history to check your a genuine member and not a spammer, scammer etc and allow you access. Until this point you can’t even view the classified section.
    This cuts out almost all the scammers as most classified users have made a significant contribution to the forum before using it and makes getting access back following a ban for abusing it almost impossible.

    Premier Icon rickon
    Subscriber

    I still stand by my original point, and question really… is what we have at the moment really that bad? For me it’s perfectly serviceable.

    Seems like a lot of debate and time for not very much value.

    xiphon
    Member

    High number of classifieds page views = revenue from advertisers.

    So why would STW restrict who can view them?

    theboatman
    Member

    100 meaningful posts before you can even request access to the classified section

    Think you would struggle to find any of us on here who would qualify to get in then 🙂

    damascus
    Member

    If you limit it to 1 post a week it will just encourage people to have multiple accounts to get round it and post what they want, when they want. This will lead to more scammers, fraud etc.

    I honestly don’t think there is a problem about pointing out an offer elsewhere, its all part of bartering. I think the real problem is how some people put their comments across (some good examples on this thread) and those who have no intensions of buying it.

    I think you have to allow the freedom of markets to work. Some people may have money to burn and are happy to pay X amount. Others are more savy, this is how free markets work and why the internet is so great but so easily abused as people can hide behind fake names.

    Premier Icon bruneep
    Subscriber

    There should be a no linking to other bike forums rule.

    And maybe a separate forum for camper vans that won’t sell.

    Holyzeus
    Member

    bruneep – Member

    And maybe a separate forum for camper vans that won’t sell.

    LMAO 😆

    Premier Icon ndg
    Subscriber

    AVForums have a good set of trading rules if you want to go down a more organised route:
    http://www.avforums.com/forums/view_trading_rules.htm

    Not sayings it’s right for STW, but it’s an interesting extreme.

    Premier Icon rickon
    Subscriber

    Again, as a regular user of all forums – what’s the value in changing things and increasing the onus on moderators?

    Rorschach
    Member

    Please respect users’ Ads. If you see someone trying to rip off gullible users by asking more for something that is used and has no warranty than it is new please don’t point it out to them.It’s their own fault for being stupid.The forum isn’t a place for offering advice or help to people. If you have genuine concerns about an ad Have a good laugh to yourself about someone getting taken for a ride.Posting seemingly helpful comments about an item being cheaper elsewhere often upset user statistics and site traffic.If you genuinely want to help the seller or potential buyer then contact them directly off forum by shouting really loudly because they don’t list their email.
    Maybe 😉

    elPedro666
    Member

    ^^^
    Brilliant

    Still not entirely clear what the problem is here.

    Sellers seem to be saying that they do not intend to rip anyone off and that i f buyers want to buy else where then they can.

    Ad Spoilers claim that they are informing members of their community that they can buy the same product, new elsewhere for cheaper or similarly priced.

    There doesn’t seem to be any conflict here. Both can contiunue in their own way.

    For example..

    I’ll offer a new an unused on-one 456 evo frame for £120.
    Someone comes along and says they can be bought new from on-one for £125. So i say, ” well go buy it then!”
    Folks can chose to do that or not. Nema problema!

    I guess if the new rule is implemented, it would just push folks into creating a PSA thread telling everyone about the £125 frames at on-one. Wouldn’t it?

    slowrider
    Member

    This new rule is bullsh|t

    Just saying

    druidh
    Member

    CharlieMungus wrote:

    I guess if the new rule is implemented,

    what do you mean if?

    it would just push folks into creating a PSA thread telling everyone about the £125 frames at on-one. Wouldn’t it?

    Hmm. I’m liking the cut of yer jib young man!

    it would just push folks into creating a PSA thread telling everyone about the £125 frames at on-one. Wouldn’t it?

    Hmm. I’m liking the cut of yer jib young man!

    What? No! I’m certainly not suggesting that is something we all do, especially not including a link to the item in classifieds, which would just go to demonstrate why the on-one item is such a bargain! No, I’m merely pointing out that this would surely be the consequence of such a ruling.

    Premier Icon tallie
    Subscriber

    Just seen this – firmly against the new rule and will likely not renew my subscription as a result.

    One of the things I like about the forum is the sense of community and I see pointing out when something is overpriced as an extension of this. I’ve recommended the classifieds to mates new to mountain biking on the basis that you won’t get over charged as it is effectively policed by forum members; it would appear that this is no longer true.

    There’s obviously a sound commercial logic (ad revenue?) behind this decision but it would appear to legislate against honest users and support those trying to make a profit from the gullible or inexperienced; surely that’s what Ebay’s for?

    Poor show STW.

    Premier Icon bigblackshed
    Subscriber

    An odd rule IMO. Whilst it may be annoying for a seller to be told that their item is overpriced and for a potential buyer to go buy it elsewhere, but that there is the cruix of a community. Which is what I thought STW was. This just favors unscrupulous sellers.

    If STW and the mods want to help the community, ensure that every sellers has a visable email address, not allow adverts redirecting to previous post or other bike forums. This week I followed ads to pink bike and bike radar. Only to find the items sold days before. Obviously traders not members of our community.

    Rant over.

    saxabar
    Member

    Disappointing. I’m firmly in the community camp on this one. A bit picky perhaps too, but to say that ads are being spoiled is incorrect. An advertisement involves the use of an advertiser buying space to display their message. This does not overtly happen here as sellers do not pay STW (the media owner). Instead classifieds posts are just that – posts and messages. This means they are of equal status to other posts and can be commented on, as per usual commonwealth rules guiding decency. Of course, STW owns the servers, sets the rules, yada yada…

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