A friend of a friend works as a mechanic at some posh car dealer or other, I think Lexus but could be wrong.

Today he was working on a vehicle, used the machine to drain the aircon. Said machine gave the green light that the system was empty.

A bit later a colleague wandered in, “you OK mate? It smells of gas in here.”

Long story short, he’s spent the afternoon in hospital for a battery of blood tests, X-rays etc. They’ve now discharged him, but told him to come back if he has any further symptoms.

Now, I appreciate that it’s probably not a great career move to sue your current employer. But what’s the best course of action here, presumably he’s entitled to some sort of compensation? He’s already spoken with HR I believe, though I don’t know the content of that discussion.

Cheers.

Has he actually suffered any ill effects, or was it precautionary? More info needed really.

Not sure what loss he’s suing for? Nothing detected after tests in hospital and discharged home? Unless gets ill and is linked to today’s incident why would he feel entitled to anything?
Sometime shit happens and kit malfunctions, surely if his employer acts in this and ensures kit working thne what more can he want/ be entitled to?
You say hospital says come back if any further symptoms but you don’t say he had any to start with?

He’s had tests but you haven’t mentioned anything about actual injuries.

Speak to a union.

Does RIDDOR apply to his incident ?

http://www.hse.gov.uk/riddor/examples-reportable-incidents.htm

Compo, get in there

For us our HR folks would pass it on to our insurance if there was anything to be treated/covered.  There wouldn’t be anything just for the risk of getting something or being exposed to something.  Shouldn’t really be a problem for HR as insurance will cover this

Sounds like a Riddor to me.
https://www.hse.gov.uk/riddor/report.htm#

told him to come back if he has any further symptoms

My bold. This infers he suffered some ill-effects?

He needs to get used to being called Elsa or Frosty the Snowman for the next few years.

Bloody hell, how STW could this post be.
I hope someone clocked him out before he left for the hospital 😜

Is he in a union? If yes, refer to their legal team for advice.
If not, ask employer whether incident has been reported to HSE – as they, presumably, wouldn’t wish for a recurrence.
Has workshop equipment testing been carried as required?
Unless there are any long-term effects I cannot see what redress – including compensation – he could realistically expect.

why would he feel entitled to anything?

I’ve no idea whether he feels anything of the sort. Rather, I thought he might. Long-term effects or no, I wouldn’t be too cheery about work hospitalising me for an afternoon.

This infers he suffered some ill-effects?

Feeling sick, dizzy / faint, difficulty breathing AFAIK. I’m working on third-hand info so not 100% certain.

I would expect an investigation. Even if its just the company that services the kit, assuming it gets serviced and a review of procedures to prevent a reoccurrence if possible.
As for compo I suppose it depends if there’s been negligence and the severity of injury.

Edit
What Frankconway said.

Has workshop equipment testing been carried as required?

Exactly the question I asked.

Report through the comapny accident reporting procedure where an investigation to determine the root cause of the incident should take place. What is the person going to sue for? What loss has occurred?

Is the friend of a friend asking you for advice then?

Logged as a near miss or incident maybe – What was the injury? We need more information.

I’m sure that would be reportable to HSE

http://www.hse.gov.uk/riddor/dangerous-occurences.htm

Hazardous escapes of substances

27 The unintentional release or escape of any substance which could cause personal injury to any person other than through the combustion of flammable liquids or gases.
The substances covered by this definition may be in any form: liquid, solid (eg powder), gaseous or vapour and may include, eg:

substances which may be hazardous to health (eg asbestos, phosgene, toluene diisocyanate)
substances which may be either corrosive or potentially hazardous by virtue of their temperature or pressure (eg nitric acid, molten metal, liquid nitrogen)
This definition includes incidents which present a fire or explosion hazard (eg combustible powders), but not in relation to releases of flammable liquids or gases, where the relevant thresholds in 26 [link to paragraph 26] are not exceeded.

Examples of the kinds of incident covered by the definition are escapes arising from the failure or breakage of plant, pipes, equipment or apparatus; failures of process control; the operation of a relief valve or bursting disc where the escaping substance is not safely controlled or directed, and spillages from containers and equipment.

Releases from plant etc during the normal course of operation or maintenance (eg during sampling, packaging or draining of lines) that are sufficiently well controlled to ensure that no person is put at risk would not be reportable.

In some cases, the decision as to whether or not an incident is reportable will be straightforward, eg if a person is exposed to a hazardous substance at a level which exceeds established safe limits (eg a Workplace Exposure Limit).

However, most incidents require judgement. Various factors are relevant including: the nature of the substance and its chemical, physical and toxicological properties, the amount which escaped and its dispersal, and whether people were, or could foreseeably have been, exposed to a significant risk as a consequence of the escape.

Does refrigerant gas have any smell, or after effects if inhaled,its usually illegal to vent refrigerant gas to atmosphere i remember from my time working with a air con specialist. Larg fines if seen or reported.

Is the friend of a friend asking you for advice then?

Not especially, I’ve not spoken to him. I’m trying to be helpful.

I love this place, but some folk do like to try to make things difficult.

Sounds like a Riddor to me.
https://www.hse.gov.uk/riddor/report.htm#

Seriously!? What criteria do you think has been met? The closest seems to be (27), but that in no way relates to this event.

As far as I can tell from the MSDSs for the common modern car aircon gases R1234yf and R134A are non toxic.

The HSE actually have a guide for working on aircon systems:

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg349.pdf

If your mate really wants compo and has actually suffered harm, work out which bit of the guidance hasn’t been followed by his employer. Although it is likely you mate wasn’t following some training or rule and will get sacked.

For me it depends if procedures have been followed or not and if the precautions taken were reasonable.

Health and safety art work act etc

So essentially, the usual predictable cock-knockery aside, the consensus is “his employer needs to perform an investigation.” Yes?

IIRC a hospital trip needs to be reported but I don’t think there’s a case for Lawyers4U here.

I’d be asking for that machine to be tested though.

There’s not enough information to say anything.

What gas was there a smell of? It may have had nothing to do with the aircon machine.
Why did he go to hospital? Did he go of his own volition? Did his employer send/take him to hospital as a precautionary measure?
What, if any effects did he experience?
Was he using the machine correctly?
Is he competent to use the machine?
Is a Risk Assessment in place and being followed.
Is a COSHH Assessment in place?
Was he wearing any required PPE?
Is the machine in a safe state, properly maintained and working correctly?

Without the answers to those and other questions it is not possible to say if the incident is RIDDOR, if anyone was at fault and if any claim can be made.

Sounds like either the machine to recover the gas was faulty or hasn’t been connected properly.

Refrigerant gases are heavier than air so can sit in your lungs and cause asphyxiation if the concentration is high enough. Not sure either outcome would warrant any compensation though unless there’s any future health problems.

I’m sorry….. but isn’t “your mate” jumping ahead of himself a wee bit?

Is it possible that the Air-Con equipment was indeed CORRECTLY maintained and that YOUR MATE (the user, like) operated it incorrectly?

Is that a possibility? I mean really? Even a tiny possibility of your mate not operating it correctly or is he some Air-Con guru who has won International Awards for his 500% safety record when using every type of Air-Con system know to man (and then went on to set up “Air-Con Rescue” specialising in using complicated Air-Con systems to refloat sunken Russian Nuclear subs or something? Again with a TOTALLY unblemished success rate over a 50 year career? Really is your mate THAT good?

The weakest point in any system is the “end-user.” That’s where I would start the investigation. I’d also ignore my “mate” Big Kev who says management are all **** “cuz they’re always making us use crap gear.”

the consensus is “his employer needs to perform an investigation.” Yes?

Yes.

They have a legal duty to carry out suitable and sufficient risk assessements for the work carried out and put in control measures to mitigate the risks identified as far as reasonably practicable. Employees are legally obliged to work to those risk assessments.

The fact that someone was sent to hospital for treatment suggests either the risk assessment, the control measures or the employees working practice was not suitable and or sufficient and the company is duty bound to find out which and put in measures to prevent happening again.

but isn’t “your mate” jumping ahead of himself a wee bit?

Please read the rest of the thread before being a bellend.

In fairness cougar, your only question in the OP is – ‘presumably he’s entitled to some sort of compensation?’
You can hardly blame people for commenting on this. If you didn’t want those responses maybe ask a different question?
Bit bellendy to get the hump if people are responding to your question?

Fair point.

But it was my question not “my mate’s” question and I’ve explained this several times now. The onus is on me if I worded it badly, but if someone’s going to come in all guns blazing after reading the OP and then skipping to the end then is it so outlandish that I got the hump a bit?

So the hospital says come back if he has any further symptoms, but you haven’t stated why he actually went there!

Give some actual info and you might get some answers.

No need to start name calling when your op is severely lacking in content.

Erm…

but isn’t “your mate” jumping ahead of himself a wee bit?

Please read the rest of the thread before being a bellend.

Oh….

But what’s the best course of action here, presumably he’s entitled to some sort of compensation?

Pot kettle and black there.

What actual injury has your mate suffered? What were the outcome of the tests? If it was precautionary that he stayed in then no, almost certainly no compensation. If there is injury, someone hasn’t done something properly. That’s not right and needs sorting. This is what an investigation is for. This someone does include your mate as well as the company…

If every riddor got riddor’d the hse website would fold trust me!

you haven’t stated why he actually went there!

Apart from the follow-up post where I did, to the best of my knowlege.

The lad in question is my girlfriend’s daughter’s boyfriend, and what little information I have has been passed via that food chain so it’s piecemeal at best. I appreciate that it’s lacking and I also appreciate that what I should have asked in the first place is “what should he do next?” but I was rushing to pop out a quick post before making a start on tea.

I was kinda hoping for a bit of advice like “tell him to talk to HSE” that I could pass on to the young lad, rather than successive posters lining up in front of an open goal for character assassinations because I hadn’t proof-read my OP six times.

He reports the incident, it gets investigated any action required will be taken. That’s it.

Oh a manager and/or investigator can and should decide if it warrants an HSE report.

He shouldn’t be reporting it to the hse, that’s his employer’s job. I’d also suggest speaking with the management etc before going off on the whole hse tangent. It may not even be reportable. It clearly needs addressing but going straight in on the whole hse/compo angle will do him no favours whatsoever and unfortunately may single him out as a “troublemaker”
And…..before any of you start bleating I’m not condoning that possible behaviour by the management but it does happen.

I’m amazed that you’ve got a girlfriend!

That’s a bit harsh and personal crikey, unless you are cougar’s boyfriend? In which case, carry on.

I’m amazed you’ve got an account. (-:

In hindsight, I apologise unreservedly for my previous insult. Sorry, Simon. I should know better.