A weakness of 650b?

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  • A weakness of 650b?
  • neiloxford
    Member

    Was chatting to a very experienced MTBer the other week about his Santa Cruz Bronson and whether he liked it. Great bike was the response, super fast, but did not race on it. Why not? Well, its a fair bit slower braking compared to his Nomad, and when going full tilt, meant overall the bronson was slower, with the gap growing the more tired he got. He put it down to the suspension design. I am wondering if the issue is also that 650b will not be able to slow down as quickly as 26 tyres?

    glasgowdan
    Member

    That’s down to the brakes, not the wheels

    Premier Icon rOcKeTdOg
    Subscriber

    how long has he had it, riding a bigger wheel takes some time to adjust to inc braking, gear choice etc

    + maybe different tyres with different levels of grip?

    A weakness of 650b?
    They make the trails come alive so much, you are knee deep in grass if you stop for more than a few seconds

    JCL
    Member

    Well it as nothing to do with wheelsize.

    I’d be surprised if there was a huge difference in brake squat/jack between either bike. The Nomad and other previous gen VPP’s had a hammock-like leverage rate which might account for it feeling a bit more supple (traction) when braking. I just found the Bronson harsh and like it had 20mm less travel than stated. That said the angles are good, it’s lovely to look at, and it’s crazy stiff. It’d be a good bike for a big guy I think.

    Premier Icon cloudnine
    Subscriber

    sounds like they they all need rounding up and crushing.

    coatesy
    Member

    Of course wheel size affects braking, a larger diameter wheel will have a more effective leverage ratio over the caliper/rotor assembly(just as a smaller rotor would on the same size wheel). Whether it’s going to make a difference big enough to notice is obviously down to the marketing men, depending on whether they want to push the lighter weight advantage over 29″, or sell you bigger rotors to cope with the now unacceptably poor braking that wheels bigger than 26 create.Cynical? oh yes!

    JCL
    Member

    More grip from the larger contact patch takes care of that theory.

    coatesy
    Member

    My head hurts.

    I agree with Coatesy the bigger wheel will make the brakes less effective but stick a bigger rotor on and they will brake better due to having slightly more grip but this is all silly talk I ride all three wheel sizes and the difference between 29ers and 26 is noticeable but 26 to 27.5 is very little if your brakes are set up correctly and for xc my 27.5 is defo faster than my 26 but still not as fast as a 29er but the fun factor get less the bigger the wheel size. We should spend more time riding our bike than arguing about the wheel sizes they are all good.

    patriotpro
    Member

    I would have thought the 650b would have stopped quicker – accelerated slower, and stopped quicker is my theory and i’m sticking to it!

    prawny
    Member

    Inertia works both ways. (momentum, whatever. I’m no fizzlecyst)

    I like the sound of the leverage argument, makes sense to me as a layman, I’ll remember to stick bigger rotors on bigger wheels if I change wheel size in future.

    andyl
    Member

    surely the complaint would have come up sooner and more pronounced with 29ers?

    There is an increased leverage but no that much.

    Maybe his brakes just need some attention or he is going faster on the new bike?

    Premier Icon faustus
    Subscriber

    I thougt that in all of these interminable debates about wheelsize, that the following things reoccured:

    – extra leverage is counteracted by the wheel travelling slower/fewer revolutions when larger, so doesn’t really make a difference?

    – contact patch size difference is actually very small in terms of cm2, and more likely to be affected by tyre choice and pressure.

    Crap, just got sucked into a wheel size debate, promised myself i never would [..swallows hand grenade..]

    Premier Icon davosaurusrex
    Subscriber

    Latest issue of MBR says the Bronson is ridiculously stiff and can be tiring to ride as a result, possibly the bike rather than the wheel size?

    slackalice
    Member

    Errrr… OP, in the context of your opening sentence, how do you define ‘experienced’? 😉

    Perhaps the increased time for reducing his velocity is due to an increase in body weight / mass over the years? 😉

    Having personally ridden bikes off road since the early 70’s and specific mountain bikes since the mid-80’s throughout the UK, North America and Continental Europe, IME, a specific wheel size has got absolutely nothing to do with stopping efficiency…

    Unless one is carrying more speed than one is used to, in which case it might take a little more time to come to a halt.

    Oooh! What am I suggesting?! 😉

    Have a great day!

    Premier Icon roverpig
    Subscriber

    I doubt that there is any problem with the 650b size in itself, but I do think that it will take time for designers to optimise the overall package. This is part of the reason why I recently went for a 26″ Five over the new model. The 26″ version is the result of years of tweaking. The 650b version is good too, but I bet (assuming 650b isn’t just a flash in the pan) that it gets tweaked over the next few years and will be even better.

    I know a couple of people who ride bikes for a living who have said the same thing about the Bronson (but not due to the wheel size). It’s great at trail centres and most people won’t have a problem but when it’s really being pushed there are faster bikes out there. OP – want at FOD you heard this was it?

    jesus wept 3 times

    excitable1
    Member

    If you see me on my Bronson anywhere…. IT WASN’T ME, I PROMISE !!!

    stumpy01
    Member

    Can’t he just squeeze the brake lever a bit harder?

    PJM1974
    Member

    Every time there’s a mention of a 650b thread, I just want to post this:

    We need more mustelids on bikes and fewer examples of marketing bolix.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    Nothing at all to do with the wheels being a bit bigger… unless of course he couldn’t fit his preference of tyre.

    Premier Icon st colin
    Subscriber

    Were is my Tommy Lee Jones photo when I need it.

    johanhej
    Member

    I’m finding it so ironic how inertia suddenly becomes a positive thing when it comes to justifying one wheel size over the other. Seriously, if you want more freaking inertia just buy the heaviest wheels you can find and stop spending money on light ass rims.

    Braking is limited by grip, not brakes. Hydraulic disc brakes can easily lock up the wheels any time, so it’s grip that limits braking.

    I saw a video of a pro Specialized XC racer and he said uses 26ers on short twisty courses where there is a lot of braking, not because the braking is less effective, but because he can accelerate quicker out of bends quicker so the 26er is quicker. For longer courses that are less twisty the 29er wins hands down. Horses for courses it seems.

    Important if your job is all about chasing seconds.

    JCL
    Member

    Latest issue of MBR says the Bronson is ridiculously stiff and can be tiring to ride as a result, possibly the bike rather than the wheel size?

    Haven’t read that issue but totally agree. I can’t think of a better word than harsh.

    I’m finding it so ironic how inertia suddenly becomes a positive thing when it comes to justifying one wheel size over the other. Seriously, if you want more freaking inertia just buy the heaviest wheels you can find and stop spending money on light ass rims.

    Don’t confuse inertia with lower rolling resistance 😉

    The weakness with 650b is that it promotes this sort of navel gazing – snoooooooze

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