I am going to start claiming assists Elfin 😉

Thanks folks, reading the entire thread was perfectly timed for the bus home. Usual pedants and willy waving but with added humour.

You set ’em up, JY; I’ll bang ’em in! 😀

Right, I’m to the Turkish place (no no; it’s a Turkish-run restaurant specialising in Turkish cuisine), then off to watch a film about a Brazilian (no no; it’s a film about Ayrton Senna who was a Motor Racing Driver from Brazil).

I’m confused now…we were the good guys in WW2, right?

‘****’ might make people feel uncomfortable, because of the association with the historical treatment of and struggle for emancipation by black people throughout the Globe.

Precisely why its relevant to keep the name in the film.

For me it’s a highly relevant marker that puts into perspective the pervasive Social Darwinism that had been around for the 100 years previous to WWII and had made the notion of Empire a normality – the white man’s burden – and had in no small way contributed to the racial policies of the nation being bombed. The fact that this small point makes a connection between the British and the Germans is highly relevant and is worthy of its inclusion.

Not sure why you think it is offensive to not call a dog **** in a film. Could you explain why this is offensive?

I find it offensive to be patronised to the extent that accounts of historical events have to be altered to spare my blushes.
And I find it distasteful that we might pretend these things didn’t happen.

It’s the “Gone With The Wind” view of history. And it is nasty.

We are hardly rewriting history here…

Eh? That’s exactly what it is!

*applause for trailmonkey*

I think **** role in history is sufficiently small that if we fully eradicate him nothing much has been altered…certainly not the big picture
I can see both points of view i would remove the name but leave something in about it at the end perhaps to explain it …or something for the directors cut where it is redubbed
Yes trail monkey does make a better point than you 😉

For me it’s a highly relevant marker that puts into perspective the pervasive Social Darwinism that had been around for the 100 years previous to WWII and had made the notion of Empire a normality – the white man’s burden – and had in no small way contributed to the racial policies of the nation being bombed. The fact that this small point makes a connection between the British and the Germans is highly relevant and is worthy of its inclusion.

Jeez do you really believe any of that you typed?

It’s the Dog’s name and it’s being changed to something else and that’s it nothing else.

I think **** role in history is sufficiently small that if we fully eradicate him nothing much has been altered…certainly not the big picture

Doesn’t matter how small of a part, it still altering history is it not?

I suppose it depends on your definition of history. Pedantically [ totally accurately if you prefer]you would be correct as we have changed a dogs name from starting with a n to starting with a d……I only hope the future can forgive us this radical rewriting of WW2 and this incident in particular. PS this is happening in a fictional account of historical events ..do you think all the dialogue will be “real” and 100% accurate?
I think nothing much will change. We reinterpret history constantly. We used to view the empire as ace but less so now…is that not a more significant change?

Jeez do you really believe any of that you typed?

every word. because its true. you may not get it but it’s still true.

It’s the Dog’s name and it’s being changed to something else
and that’s it nothing else.

yeah, its being changed for no reason whatsoever 🙄

trailmonkey – Member

For me it’s a highly relevant marker that puts into perspective the pervasive Social Darwinism that had been around for the 100 years previous to WWII and had made the notion of Empire a normality – the white man’s burden – and had in no small way contributed to the racial policies of the nation being bombed. The fact that this small point makes a connection between the British and the Germans is highly relevant and is worthy of its inclusion.

If changing the dog’s name helps prevent posts like this, I’ll consider it a victory.

yeah, its being changed for no reason whatsoever

BBFC give higher certificates for films containing discriminatory language.

‘****’ is on the list, regardless of context.

No conspiracy to alter the past, I reckon that’s as simple as it gets. Despite how amusing the outrage is.

yeah, its being changed for no reason whatsoever 🙄

Did you read the thread you may disagree with the reason ..perhaps you like the **** word and use it in every day speech?… but it is not no reason it is a reason you dont agree with.

Maybe they should call the dog “still”? 😉

If changing the dog’s name helps prevent posts like this, I’ll consider it a victory.

given that changing the dogs name has provoked the post, your victory is unlikely.

perhaps you like the **** word and use it in every day speech?…

i can only assume that you haven’t read anything that i’ve posted so far. i’d expect a guardianista like you to be fouling their hush puppies over this one though.

i can only assume you cant detect humour apologies if offence was caused but thanks for you humorous portrayal of me.

damn you jy, now i feel all guilty 😳

no don’t it is a fair caricature but i prefer bleeding heart pc liberal do gooder tbh.

liberal is only an insult with a capital L

As usual, the PC brigade are in denial, and seek to distort the meanings and intentions to suit their own agenda. There is no connection between the use of the name “****” for a black dog and the racial policies of Nazi Germany.

Guy Gibson might or might not, have been a rabid racist, but there is certainly no clue in the name he chose for his dog.

The term “Negro” was once perfectly acceptable and many black civil rights organisations used it in their names. Indeed Martin Luther King constantly used the term Negro, and at time when the term “black man” was considered to be deeply offensive.

Today it is considered wholly unacceptable to refer to a black man as a Negro, whilst “black man” is considered to be extremely polite. The term **** has undergone simular changes in its level of acceptance.

The fact that Guy Gibson called his dog **** does not reflect an attitude which “contributed to the racial policies of the nation being bombed”. Any more than the fact that the term “black man” was considered to be highly offensive, reflects a deep feeling of anti-racism during that period.

The irony of all this is that the English language is constantly evolving to take into consideration the sensitivities of minority groups, something which you would expect the PC brigade to welcome. How ironic therefore, that the PC brigade appear to be in complete denial and are claiming that the meanings are as relevant today as they were 70 years ago.

As usual, the PC brigade are in denial, and seek to distort the meanings and intentions to suit their own agenda. There is no connection between the use of the name “****” for a black dog and the racial policies of Nazi Germany.

Don’t think that view came from the mythical ‘PC Brigade’

There’s nothing “mythical” about the PC Brigade – I’ve had the misfortune to be at meetings where they’ve turned up.

And btw, I learnt a very long time ago that the PC brigade can never agree about anything……”right, I move that we don’t use the term chairman, as it’s sexist, let’s use chairwoman”. “What about if it’s a man? …..I think we should just use the term ‘chair'” “No I think it should be chairperson”………and so it goes on – the pointless waffling bollox, until everyone suddenly remembers that there was an important issue to discuss, only half the meeting has been wasted with pointless PC bollox.

as usual in your rush to hate, you’ve misinterpreted my stance to be PC. it is not. i’m actually making the case for the name to stay as ****. a fact that you might have picked up on if you’d bothered to read.

There is no connection between the use of the name “****” for a black dog and the racial policies of Nazi Germany.

there is a connection. social darwinism was as much a part of british culture as it was german culture and contributed to the normalisation and justification of both british imperialism and nsdap policies.i suppose i could always just ignore the work of noted historians though and just take your word for it.

ernie_lynch – Member

There’s nothing “mythical” about the PC Brigade – I’ve had the misfortune to be at meetings where they’ve turned up.

Oh where can I sign up?

But you still got it wrong.

trailmonkey – Member

given that changing the dogs name has provoked the post, your victory is unlikely.

Touche!

Best quote I’ve seen so far is from some curator at an RAF museum:

Sod their political correctness and sod human rights.

Brilliant.

From the Guardian style book:

“Political Correctness: a term to be avoided because it is, in Polly Toynbee’s words, “an empty rightwing smear designed only to elevate its user”

🙂

a fact that you might have picked up on if you’d bothered to read.

Unfortunately I did bother to read your post.

And yes, your conclusion is classic mixed up PC bollox. The PC brigade are constantly contradicting themselves and each other……this is what happens when you desperately seek problems which don’t exist.

yeah but if it gets on polly toynbees tits then it’s a must use in my book 😀

*Woooosh*

What’s a “Guardian style book” Deadly ?

I still like the description. PT’s not so bad. Goes over the top sometimes, but she’s still one of the good guys. ernie’s really lost me this time.

EDIT: ernie, I believe it’s a book used by Guardian writers to aid good journalism. They gave little mini versions away a few years back with the Saturday editions. Believe me, you’d love it 😀

your conclusion is classic mixed up PC bollox. The PC brigade are constantly contradicting themselves and each other……this is what happens when you desperately seek for problems which don’t exist.

Oh right, so you’re saying that i’m looking for a problem that doesn’t exist. So you feel that the name should be changed to digger.

Very PC of you.

ernie’s really lost me this time.

he doesn’t know himself. he just wants to have a dig. it’s one of his ‘i’m redder than you’ moments, bless.

What does nick griffin and the national trust think about this?

As usual, the PC brigade are in denial, and seek to distort the meanings and intentions to suit their own agenda.

Wait… what?

So the pesky PC brigade are demanding the dog should be called **** and the staunch anti-PC old guard are saying it should be changed in case it offends anyone? 🙄

Oh right, so you’re saying that i’m looking for a problem that doesn’t exist. So you feel that the name should be changed to digger.

Very PC of you

Yep, I don’t think changing the name is a problem …….for all the reasons given in my first post.

You on the other hand appear to think that it’s not acceptable as it doesn’t show the “connection between the British and the Germans” and an attitude which in “no small way contributed to the racial policies of the nation being bombed”……. some sort of conspiracy no doubt. Classic mixed up halfwit conclusion which I would expect from a militant member of the PC brigade 😀

Missisippi Burning

But…but…

eh?