Evening all, over this last while I’ve been making a concerted effort to improve my fitness/strength on the bike. Despite the winter evenings I’ve managed to get out about three times a week, varying from about two hours to just shy of four.

The problems I’ve been having are as follows – firstly, when I start riding I feel pretty nauseous, I feel as if it takes me up to an hour, to “get into the zone” where I feel like I can ride hard without blowing up. Once I’m past this nauseous faze though, I do feel like I can go and go.

Secondly, my legs feel, for want of a better word, sluggish, all the time. I know I’ve got plenty of power there but I feel as if I need to hold back again for fear of blowing up….my thighs just feel tender. I feel that if I could get my legs to feel right I could really blast the climbs.
For context the type of riding I do is long steep climbs, tech descents, minimal faffing about. The pace is usually moderate to high, some of the guys are elite xc and dh racers.

Sorry if that’s all very general, I’m not into heart rate monitoring or any of that, I wonder if anyone can give me any tips or can relate and impart some knowledge how to overcome these problems.

Thanks

Your nausea phase is probably just warming up. The fitter you are the longer it takes to warm up. What’s the pace like early in these rides with the elites. They may well have warmed up on the way to the ride and will go off hard ad in a race. Your legs are in recovery rebuild mode all the time so the tenderness is GOOD!

Having said the tenderness is GOOD (I agree) so is resting your legs and if you can getting a massage.

Do you ride any kind of training schedule? What rest do you take and what mix of hard / easy rides?

Resting is a big part of training. I normally make every 4th week an easy week.

Also sounds like you’re training on not much of a base…

Reckon the nausea is probably warming up too. I get it quite a bit at the start of some rides. Sometimes can take me an hour to get to the point where I’m feeling comfortable, especially if the ride is hard from the start. Definitely gets worse as I get older too. Find if I take it easy and just spin an easy gear for the first 15 mins then it’s a lot easier. Though the first big effort of any ride makes me feel like I want to puke!

Sluggish legs, are all your rides pretty hard? Mix up easy and hard rides and get more rest. Also worth doing some sessions that aren’t too hard but try and do them in a low gear with high cadence.

Warming up sounds like the issue…takes me 20m odd, are you eating before you go out, or rushing beforehand?

Otherwise try some structure if you can bear/accommodate it, and intervals, and don’t be scared of “blowing up”, pushing yourself is necessary (just as much as resting, diet and hydration are)

robbo

What’s the pace like early in these rides with the elites. They may well have warmed up on the way to the ride and will go off hard ad in a race

No one else will be warmed up in advance – the pace is pretty intense right off the bat. For some of the strongest guys it’s just an average training run, but it’s pretty much full chat for me.

lucien

Do you ride any kind of training schedule? What rest do you take and what mix of hard / easy rides?

No schedule, just as much as I can. One ride a week is a bit mellower, well shorter climbs, but the tempo is still high.

GaryLake

Also sounds like you’re training on not much of a base…
Can you elaborate gary?

cynic-al

Otherwise try some structure if you can bear/accommodate it, and intervals, and don’t be scared of “blowing up”, pushing yourself is necessary (just as much as resting, diet and hydration are)

Yeah, I suppose I should maybe try and push more. I am just reluctant to do so incase I cant go on/ hold up the group for too long.

cynic-al – are you eating before you go out, or rushing beforehand?

Generally eating about an hour prior. Porridge, and maybe a sausage or two.

essential reading

Joe Friels’ book is well informative and does focus on base fitness, which is the core of any good training regime

Base training means doing lots of low intensity long workouts in the winter months to improve your base aerobic levels. This means riding slowly in a small gear (you should be able to hold a conversation quite easily at this level if you are not using a HR monitor to check your intensity). Most riders tend to do this alone as group rides generally degenerate into races unless you have a disciplined group but be warned it can feel incredibly tedious.

The high intensity stuff you should do in small doses on set days in the week building up (in length and intensity) to when you want to start racing (if that is your goal).

Do you do much stretching after a ride? This can also help with the leaden feeling in the legs the next day.

A bit of training advice saught

what sort of training? how to use a dictionary type training?

alpin

what sort of training? how to use a dictionary type training?

Or just how to avoid grammar pedants 🙂

Roter Stern – Member

Base training means doing lots of low intensity long workouts in the winter months to improve your base aerobic levels. This means riding slowly in a small gear (you should be able to hold a conversation quite easily at this level if you are not using a HR monitor to check your intensity). Most riders tend to do this alone as group rides generally degenerate into races unless you have a disciplined group but be warned it can feel incredibly tedious.

The high intensity stuff you should do in small doses on set days in the week building up (in length and intensity) to when you want to start racing (if that is your goal).

Do you do much stretching after a ride? This can also help with the leaden feeling in the legs the next day.

Thanks guy, perhaps I’ll be able to do some base training riding to work when the weather gets better. I’ve no desire to race, I just want to be able to ride the things I do ride but faster, harder..more!

I never stretch, frankly I am wary of it.

oooo this sounds so familar. Do you wear a HR monitor? I find I belt through all the zones really quickly up to 180ish which I can survive at for about 2.5hrs before cramp / bonking kick in.

Bought Friels book, been working on base training last few weeks (z2 on the turbo). Have also been working on cadence – used to ride at 65 now trying to average 90.

Did a 2.5hr race today, felt much much better despite being ill for the last month or so. Position was slightly higher in the field than usual, and I still had plenty in the legs when I finished. (still working on race strategy)

Definitely buy Friels book.

DT78 Do you wear a HR monitor?

No. Can’t say it appeals, I want my riding to be as stripped back as possible within reason. I am sure it’s a very useful tool for some .

DT78

Definitely buy Friels book.

In your opinion, would someone who has no interest in being a competitive xc racer get much from it? I know that might sound incongruous, considering I am asking for training advice but I can’t see myself as an xc whippet so to speak.

I never stretch, frankly I am wary of it.

It’s not something you should be wary of. It’s actually quite an important part of your recovery and helps stops future muscle injuries.

No scientific input into your training (HRM, intervals, base training)

=

mostly a waste of your time.

Roter Stern

It’s not something you should be wary of. It’s actually quite an important part of your recovery and helps stops future muscle injuries.

I suppose I should elaborate – the riders I know who frequently cramp, pull muscles and suffer injuries are he same guys who really go to town with stretching, pre and post exercise. Hence my reluctance.

cynic-al

No scientific input into your training (HRM, intervals, base training)

=

mostly a waste of your time.

Well, that maybe so….but I’ll be getting out on my bike at least. I’ve noticed a big improvement in the last month or so, I just can’t seem to shake the two issues in my original post. As before, I don’t want to be winning xc races, just enjoying my rides.

Being fit AND/OR fast is about how you train, not whether you want to race, or not. But, effective training is (generally) based upon science.

If your not fussed with getting better you’ve asked an odd question. Friels book is pitched at racers but its the same science for average people wanting to get better. I,ll never podium, but if I can go from top 50% to top 40% I,m happy.

DT78 – Member

If your not fussed with getting better you’ve asked an odd question. Friels book is pitched at racers but its the same science for average people wanting to get better. I,ll never podium, but if I can go from top 50% to top 40% I,m happy.

I am fussed with getting better, but I know I’ll never do an xc race. Perhaps I see a distinction between how I ride/want to ride and an xc race, but this could be inexperience or lack of understanding. From the reviews on amazon it seems the book is really a training guide for xc racers, whereas my main problems are not putting out enough power on climbs and the nausea.

Anyway, I suppose I am digressing. For the sake of a tenner I might pick up the book, it wont hurt, and it might help me to improve.

Always stretch after riding but not before. Warming up and down very important too ie spinning for a good 5 mins after you finish a hard ride

Not stretching after, failing to use an HRM to measure your effort, or using a structured training plan are all mistakes IMO. They’re the essentials.
As is thinking about your diet, rest and sleep. These are essential to support the battering yr giving your muscles.
IMO the compound result of paying no attn to any of the above which are very well known and understood, and simply going out and hoofing it on a regular basis, are leading to your poor performance. You’re probably overtraining – anerobic all the time.
IME a concerted focus on your core strength will pay massive dividends to the your strength and power on the hills too.
Whether it’s running, cycling or just general endurance, all of the above applies… Some of the above has come from a guy I knew who was training Commonwealth and Olympic hopefuls…

There will be a chunk of stuff that won’t be relevant Tbh, like tapering for an event etc. But it is very good at explaining the difference between anerobic and aerobic and what you can do to improve each. Most mtbers tend to ride in the middle ground of not easier enough but not hard enough either. With a bit more of a focus on your training I’m sure you will see improvements, I definitely have.

Btw races really are good fun. The gorricks if you are down south are fantastic. Go on give it a go, I wish I had done when I was a bit younger and fitter!

Not read all the replies, but how long have you been riding for?

I’m not a coach but can only go on my previous racing seasons and training on the road.

It can take a fair while for the body to adapt to what can be a pretty strenuous activity, have you had a second opinion on your position and set up on the bike – as these can have big consequences in terms of feeling ‘good’ when putting in efforts.

As for the ‘science’ based training, not everyone swears by this. Friends of mine who ride full time (on the road) don’t all use this as a training method, but it can be of benefit in getting to know your body and what feels right. Knowing your average HR/max HR is useful and you can keep a diary. You could pick up a functional HR monitor for about £20 these days.

Stretching is obviously advisable, 30seconds for each muscle with a good shake after – some of these can be done on the bike if you’re feeling brave. Never stretch when cold. Also if it’s below 20degreesC keep your knees covered, they’ll appreciate it when your old.

Where are you based?

Adrian Timmis (Tour De France/Olympic rider) has a shop ‘Cadence Sport’ in Barton-under-Needwood, Staffordshire. He has regular talks from nutrition through to training, most of which are free. He also coaches some top level riders, so would be a very useful person to speak to about your issues.

all the best.

base training

Otherwise known as long steady distance – there is a school of thought who regard this as junk miles ie. you’ll not get much bang for your buck doing these.

You’re probably overtraining – anerobic all the time

It’s not possible to be anaerobic all the time.

I can’t comment on the reasons for nausea or leg tenderness. I could be numerous things.

Is the nausea low sugar ?

Are you eating a lot of sugary food but not much low GI stuff before the ride ?