solamanda CRC started somewhere. They probably borrowed, reinvested and took risks.

Can I just say I dont like the one-sided nature of 'support your LBS' and 'your bad if you use online retailers like CRC' bollox.

I use both and I even have TWO LBS's local to me that I use frequently but I dont agree with the mantra 'use your lbs' when some of them are bloody appalling. If you own or work in one- just visit some of your competition. See if you get served and the service you receive for a start. I know one chain that has a fantastic branch whilst its other branch is awful. I even contacted their head office and gave praise on one and added the other was dire compared.

My last LBS purchase was 2 weeks ago from Mountain high in Pangbourne, I needed a front gear cable in a hurry (admittedly to fit the massively under-priced SLX front-mech I bought from CRC), all they had on offer was a boxed XTR gear cable for £10, now I know I can get a far cheaper cable from CRC that will do the job just as well, but that will take 24-48 hrs to arrive and I needed it then and there and in the grand scheme of things £10 for a fancy cable is better than saving £5 and not being able to ride the bloody bike for 2 days, that’s where my LBS wins, they have the small items I need without any waiting, the price increase is perfectly reasonable in my view, considering the alternative is sitting at home for the weekend congratulating myself on having saved a pitiful sum at the expense of actually riding…

Walking through Mountain high their workshop seemed as busy as ever and I overheard the Fella upstairs telling one customer that while parts sales were down, complete bike sales were up a little and more people were bringing in bikes for repair work, his theory being the credit crunch had driven people out of their cars and onto their bikes a bit more, again this is where the good LBS’ beat CRC, I can buy a cheapo SLX for £16 but I still forget to order the cable, LBS scores a small sale, this is probably the case for about 30% of CRC’s sales, they generate a smaller secondary sale or a bit of workshop work for an LBS somewhere.

As with any LBS they had various goodies on display all at or around list price, but I don’t think they seriously expected stay afloat by flogging them, a good LBS does more than sell drivetrain parts, they offer workshop services and advice and sell complete bikes, all of which I think CRC/Merlin/Wiggle struggle to match online.

As for complaining about what is actually about a 40% markup, with a profit margin somewhere in the 10% range come on, most consumer good companies are expecting in the 100-200% gross profit range after costs, the majority of retailers would expect a far bigger profit from what is a low volume high price point sale, you can bet that Shimano won’t be selling to the shop at rock bottom prices, their own running costs, but you expect a small business to put themselves out of business to secure your custom, they’d probably be better off letting you walk out the door empty handed….

LBS v CRC

Ok we all would like to live by the slogan "support your local bike shop" but hey , mtbing is an expensive sport. When you local bike shop is charging these prices it a no brainer to buy from the UNLESS ITS AN EMERGENCY . They make their money these days from selling bikes and services , also selling bike stuff the the non-internet savy riders. They would sooner sell one rear mech at a 50% profit than 10 at a 5% profit , they rely on those mentioned above to keep them in business.

I have on a few occasions went to one of the LBS and had a chat while getting something done orin an emergency situation and each time had a chat to the guys about online v bike shop prices …. and even they will tell you that CRC or WIGGLE selling price is less than they pay cost.

I year back i was getting my new XT cassette fitted and the guy said "you buy it online" , i replied yes , ebay , woolyhatshop $55au , he said "thanks , i need to order a new one" …. now thats a disgrace when the bike shop employees are even buying online .

Im in Australia and we get FREE POSTAGE from CRC on any over $490 , with WIGGLE we get free postage on any order over $97 !!!!!!!!

In a bike shop here a tyre could be $80 , i can get both tyres, new grips for $80au from WIGGLE …. stick a new bottle of stans sealant on it and it is here in Australia less than 7 days later WITH NO POSTAGE .

Yes "support you local bike shop" sound good in practice , but fu%k sake … why would you … they are a business and they wont support you if you are getting it tight .

depending on quantity ordered a RDM591SGSL will cost the shop between £21 & £23 plus shipping from Madison. FACT

you can make your own assumptions as to how much they should add for wages / rent / etc.

grey imports are a whole other matter

Are you saying that because the internet has opened up expensive gear to everyone that its not so special anymore ? Or the bloody price hike has peeved us all off 🙂

I just want to add. I'd love to buy everything from my LBS however I can't afford to. If I could afford I would as I couldnt be arsed going online, waiting, trawling to find things. However the tighter the money the more you have to look for the cheapest. I hate people looking down on you though for shopping online. Sorry, my wage is only so big compared to my outgoings 🙂

I think the distributors are criminals in this too – from the sounds of it they give far more support to the likes of CRC with their guaranteed large orders than to the LBSs trying to get one or two parts a week.

When I was buying a bike about 2 years ago the shop tried to get Juicy 5's (not exactly uncommon brakes) in as an upgrade. He spent about a week talking to the distributor, but they just didn't get them to him. So he actually recommended that I buy them on CRC and bring them in to get fitted!

Top bloke for offering, and it shows that there was little in it for him price-wise too. In the end I bought them from a shop down the road who matched CRC price and fitted them myself.

allyharp – i think thats a tad on the harsh side. distributors can have various reasons for not being able to send something to a shop. eg the shop could be on credit hold, or the shop may not have an account with them etc.

to say they are criminal is out of order.

as a shop we get great support from our distributors. cant say a bad thing about any of them.

they do not give preference to the larger customers because there is the simple fact that often these cheaper bargain goods are not bought from the distributor…

that says to me if a shop does sell fur RRP then they in reality its 50% margin?

Grey market is an unfair comparison- i.e. you have to front all your own warranty returns and swallow the loss of each one yourself.

it would be nice if woodrups got an apology for the implication and slight on their character that they in some way attempted to rip someone off for SHOCK HORROR pricing something in their shop at normal retail.

just a thought mind.

that might then 'put it to bed'.

Why not? Think of your lbs having the same business model as your car sales yard- most of it's money is earned in sales and servicing, where it charges rrp for parts. Accessory and spares over the counter go out at rrp. You can normally find the parts and consumables cheaper elsewhere yourself, and either fit them yourself, or take them to the service counter to be fitted and put up with the grumbles.

The whole rrp thing is wrong IMHO. Why should a distributor or manufaturer try to dictate how much a product is sold to the end customer for? If rrps were removed, then retailers would have to THINK how much they needed to sell that item for. Depending on the Market, location etc. Some lbs' would be able to charge above current rrp prices and other retailers business model would allow them to charge less. Why shouldn't a central London lbs not be able to charge a premium on a bike, above rrp, to reflect the higher costs of running a business there.
RRPs are bad for customers and bad for retailers. RIP rrps !

So what would you do with the list price on new cars?

Same rules apply, but it may be difficult if the manufacturer also owns the dealer network.

Its a fairly simple concept – why should the distributor or manufacturer dictate how much an item should be sold for, and therefore how much margin a retailer should make?

Retailers need to identify and work with their own market. Not all market conditions are the same, so the end price shouldn't be the same either.

So a boutique bike store on park lane, should be able to sell Lansgters at way above the current RRP if it thinks the market would stand it, and box shifters with lower per unit overheads should be able to discount.

Do we all remember when we all paid the price printed on the cover for books? Its protectionism for the distributors and its wrong IMHO.

Of course, people will say its only the recommended retail price and shops can sell for what they want, but in reality its an arbitary reference which shops use to sell at that price if they choose (hide behind perhaps?), or refer to when having a 'sale'.

Now has anyone seen my stepladder, cos this horse is a bit too high for me to jump off without help 😉

markd, i manage a trade counter selling aerials, cctv, satellite equipment.
the cold truth is pricematch or lose the sale.

Ok Ton, so if you were selling an item which cost you £30.00 trade, and it had an rrp of £45 and one of your customers says they can get it elsewhere for £25, you would rather sell the item for a £5 loss rather than lose the sale….

..Actually, I need a new aerial for my Freeview, can you sell me one for less than trade price please?

Too many people today know think people should overpay and undervalue their customers.

In business you need to give a good/competitive price AND a good level of service. Theres just too much competition out there.

Again, yes I support my LBS however I cant give them 100% of my business. Just as you couldnt afford to have your secondhand car serviced, parts replaced and repaired at your local Franchised main dealer either.

You use a GREY source.

Saying all this. Someone has got to reveal what the margins are for distributors, sell price to dealers etc.

A few years back I was speaking to the owner of a certain bike company. He didnt realise the prices the Uk distributor was charging when I mentioned in passing. So he said he'd relook at the prices he sold them to and RAISE them. He seemed genuinely surprised (he thought they would be about 40% lower) and I was too as I assumed he would know this at the time. I wont name names either.

So about a 40% markup then?

if you want to moan at anyone moan at outdoor clothing retailers …. mark up on that is rediculous FACT – and it doesnt get down priced much on the net either (not the stuff im looking for anyway )

haha i mean real outdoors kit … not howies …

want a rab neutrino vest or a snugpak softie vest – and ill have to pay around 100 quid for the privaledge – i happy to know the trade on both items and it makes me baulk having to pay what ill have to pay to get em – but they are worth it to me – much like an XTR mech is worth it to me