456 frame any good for all day fast XC rides

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  • 456 frame any good for all day fast XC rides
  • oldgwegg
    Member

    Thinking about picking up a 456 frame secondhand (seen a few cheap). As I know nothing about frame geometry, thought I’d ask here if an On One 456 frame would be suitable for long XC rides. All I know is that a few people here recommend them and say they are designed to take longer travel forks.

    Googling for a guide to the different 456 frames that have been made over the past few years gives not much, and the On One website is pants for an ignoramus like me, plus doesn’t really give any info on their older models. Any general buying advice for a 456 or a good value alternative (secondhand) to a 456 ?

    Thanks in advance.

    Junkyard
    Member

    456 refers to the fact you can use 4 inch 5 inch or 6 inch forks on it

    I have the Carbon version and it would be fine for the duties you describe as would many other frames

    Junkyard
    Member

    456 refers to the fact you can use 4 inch 5 inch or 6 inch forks on it

    I have the Carbon version and it would be fine for the duties you describe as would many other frames

    pickle
    Member

    If you’re on a tight budget then i don’t think you can beat them. I had one a few years back and loved it. i ran mine with vanilla 130 forks and it was great on all day rides around wales and the surrey hills. They are not the best finished frames in the world (paint jobs) so don’t go expecting a lush powder job, look for accessive chainsuck marks…..other than that you can’t go wrong for about £80-£100. liked my old steel one so much i went for a carbon one and love that even more.

    I ran my old steel one with 100mm rigid forks for a while while i used it to ride to work but found the front a little low for me, so if you plan on using 100mm forks i’d go for a normal inbred.

    oldgwegg
    Member

    Thanks for the advice. Are the chainsuck marks a problem to the integrity of the frame ? The one I have my eye on has lots of wear there but I don’t care about paint jobs or cosmetic appearance if it isn’t a problem in any other way.

    Roter Stern
    Member

    Are the chainsuck marks a problem to the integrity of the frame ?

    No purely cosmetic. I have a steel 456 that I leave in the UK for messing around at the trail centres. Compared to my other bikes (including a regular Inbred SS) it feels like riding a tank when the trails are petty tame; just feels not very responsive or flickable. As soon as things get lairy it seems to come alive. Mine is fitted with a 130mm Recon dual air fork which works a treat.

    oldgwegg
    Member

    @Roter – cheers.

    Any other On One or other make frames to consider that come up fairly often secondhand ?

    Premier Icon gonetothehills
    Subscriber

    Just go for the 456. You genuinely won’t be sorry about it. I’ve run them with 100 and 130mm forks. They’re actually fine with 100mm as an all day XC bike. They ride far better than the price would suggest and I’ve said it a number of times on here; the day I sold mine and bought an 853 frame from another brand was the day I realised I was a right muppet!

    I’ve got an On One Scandal at the moment, and that’s nice – lighter, similar geometry to the Inbred and fun to ride and if you’re lucky, you’ll pick one of those up for a song too.

    oldgwegg
    Member

    Cheers – just seen a lovely looking one on eBay. Its a Summer Season – am I being thick in wondering what the “Summer” means in that ? I can ride it in winter can’t I ??? 😳

    B.A.Nana
    Member

    No, you’re not being thick as It’s not obviously linked. The Summer Season is a 456 frame with a slack head angle. ie otherwise same geometry, but a few degrees slacker in the head angle.
    The Summer Season is not really a ‘long xc rides’ frame IMO. It’s a heavy gauge, heavy duty, play bike frame.
    You can ride it whenever you want and for XC, but there is better out there for pure XC rides IMO.

    james
    Member

    “Summer Season – am I being thick in wondering what the “Summer” means “

    iirc, originally it was going to be a close to £100 unbutted tubed, somehow less well finished (paint? lacquer? either way can’t rmemeber), but much slacker than a stock 456. Slack enough that it’d still be be plenty slack without needing a long divey 160mm fork
    The summer element being you could afford to buy one to rebuild your UK trail bike onto (without needing to buy a longer fork), trash it in the alps for however long without worrying if you broke it
    afaik it got slightly specced up along the way (paint?) is it still plain guage tubes? and the RRP crept upto stock 456 levels?

    Or something like that? Am sure I’ll be remembering something wrong in there

    re: the op’s question, what fork are you building around? It maybe for all day ‘fast’ that an inbred, scandal, whippet might be more suited?

    hora
    Member

    Why not spend alittle more and then youll enjoy every single ride more

    oldgwegg
    Member

    @B.A.Nana – Thanks – do you have any suggestions for a frame suitable for all day XC.

    @James – thanks for your explanation. I think I might have thrown in a red herring – when I said “fast” XC I only meant that I’m not going to be pootling along – should have been a bit clearer really. I like to cover a lot of ground and try to keep up a decent pace. I also do a lot of climbing as its valley-ly near me.

    As to the build, I haven’t got the forks yet but I’m expecting to pick up some Recon or Rebas, 100 mm – 120 mm, but perhaps the 85 – 130 Recon U-Turns. I’m aiming for something with motion control and either single or double air. You think the Scandal or In-bred would be better for being in the saddle all-day ?

    oldgwegg
    Member

    @hora – yes you are right. Thats what I keep doing – spending a little more 😀 I wasn’t going to spend anything, then I realised how much better my ride would be with some better forks, and then thought why not change the frame at the same time as the 456 can be had reasonably cheap. Just found out I need a new headset too. So I really need to draw a line at about £200 for secondhand frame and forks. What kind of frame were you thinking if I had a little more – bear in mind I’ve just nailed my requirements down to something for long, all day XC, that’ll also take 100 – 140 mm travel.

    hora
    Member

    Get a 2ndhand Sanderson or c456.

    The 456 is a clunker. Most peeps own a 456 as part of a group/fleet of steeds in their house 🙂

    Premier Icon jasonm945
    Subscriber

    I think for longer day rides you would be as well off with the inbred which is slightly less over built.

    Jay

    Premier Icon Wally
    Subscriber

    I had a Sanderson Life 853 – it was lovely and sold for about £120. They do come up. I also had a standard red 456, it was much better than it’s price tag – £50 – but no where near as “all day” as the Life.

    Premier Icon convert
    Subscriber

    I had a (ti)456 for a while. It was definitely better on xc riding with the fork set shorter- too ponderous on the flat twisty stuff with a big fork up front. Downhill it was more fun and forgiving with the fork longer. A 456 with a u-turn fork is a good “economy” bike if you want a single bike that can do a little of everything. If it’s just the long xc rides that interest you it won’t be as good as a normal inbred/scandal/sanderson and a straight 100mm fork as you are paying a weight penalty for the extra gnarness (especially if you build it up with tougher heavier wheels etc to cope with the extra speed and confidence downhill).

    oldgwegg
    Member

    Cheers all – I’ll keep an eye out for a Sanderson (not many of them changing hands secondhand by the looks of it). Can see a few inbreds though, so take a look there too. Back to the drawing board for now I think. In fact, 90% of my riding is long XC and perhaps I should just stick with 100mm travel forks. But I do come across enough fast downhill because I’ve managed to cause my rear drop-outs to get slightly bent out of shape so don’t think my current frame is tough enough.

    hora
    Member

    The rear of the 456 compared to the Sanderson are like night and day. However they are different travel frames…….The Sanderson would be the long XC rides though wouldn’t it?

    You could buy a 456 but you might end up holding onto it and not enjoying your precious riding time as much as if you’d bought something abit more special.

    Rather than ‘my budget is £200’. Really- how precious are you rides? Can you put a price on a good ride/happy/being out there? Its not ATGNI – we spend fuel getting to rides etc and our weekends are precious. Why not avoid the clunker and buy something better.

    Euro
    Member

    The 456 is a clunker. Most peeps own a 456 as part of a group/fleet of steeds in their house

    This is true for me. I’ve a 456 SS and it’s spot on for all day rides. If I had to trim my fleet, they’d all go, bar the 456. With height adjustable forks, it’s a go anywhere, do everything bike on a budget. I’ve 36 talas on mine which live at 110mm for most of the time. If i come upon a nice DH trail I’ll wind them out a bit.

    Spend less, smile more 😀

    oldgwegg
    Member

    @hora – nah, I don’t see it like that but I get what you mean. All my rides are special because I’m outdoors in the middle of nowhere. I’ve always enjoyed my riding despite now realising that what I’m riding is “crap”. More to the point, my frame and forks just need replacing so my goal is just to get something a bit tougher and more suitable for the riding I’m doing, and get back out there. I’m sure there is a perfectly good frame and fork out there within my budget – considering what I have been riding, I’m sure there are loads of frame/fork combos that will improve my ride anyway – I just need to make sure I choose the right type of frame, so maybe a bit more homework on my part. Will look out for a Sanderson though.

    @euro – exactly !! Spend less, smile more – I like it. I’ve already started to become hypnotised by shiny bike bits after being around this place for a few weeks – but I have the will power (and grumbly wife) to resist any extragavant spending.

    Thanks again for all the comments and suggestions though – I’m learning a lot.

    b r
    Member

    You can buy a new Inbred frame for £140, that’s what I’d do.

    Be aware that steel frames mostly rust from the inside out, and if someone is selling one s/h you’ve no real idea of its condition (and this applies to all frames BTW).

    Premier Icon firestarter
    Subscriber

    I’ve had the inbred and the 456 personally for all day xc I’d prefer the inbred for trail centres I’d go for 456 , as a bit of both 456 with travel adjust forks

    Premier Icon Nick
    Subscriber

    The 456 is a clunker. Most peeps own a 456 as part of a group/fleet of steeds in their house

    Mine has been my main bike for four years, replaced my Orange 5 cos I wanted a change, it’s done everything from playing in the woods to three day 120 mile bikepacking trips (rack mounts) ala the Welsh Ride Thing.

    Doubt I’ll ever get rid, might add a full suss to the collection again next year if funds allow.

    Rather than ‘my budget is £200’. Really- how precious are you rides? Can you put a price on a good ride/happy/being out there? Its not ATGNI – we spend fuel getting to rides etc and our weekends are precious. Why not avoid the clunker and buy something better.

    I think you’ve got your head stuck somewhere, better is massivly subjective and not everyone can afford to experiment with a variety of different bikes flogging them on after a month or two.

    Premier Icon Nobby
    Subscriber

    Mine’s been with me for 5+ years & I can’t see it going any time soon. RS Rev U-turns so travel can change from 130 to 90mm so it’s useable in all sorts of ways.

    Flats & 130 for playing/riding with Jr or SPD’s & 100mm for XC days – for the money I can’t fault it.

    That said, my next HT will be a Sanderson.

    oldgwegg
    Member

    If I’m sticking with readily available and relatively cheap secondhand frames, (possibly could pick up new at this price) then for long XC rides I need either an Inbred or a Scandal. Think I can handle just a 100mm travel fork too, considering I don’t even have 50mm on my current forks.

    So, whats the strongest frame between the Inbred and the Scandal ? I do come across some fast downhill singletrack off the mountains and I think from hitting the drainage channels at speed I’ve damaged my frame, so I need something to withstand a bit of a battering downhill (but no jumps).

    uwe-r
    Member

    Not sure this is 100% but:

    Inbred is the older 456 and is more of an all round frame.

    Scandal was a race frame so a bit lighter although the geometry would be a bit harder to get along with (a more committed / head down riding position).

    Based on that I would go Inbred or newer 456. The newer model will give you more options on forks.

    Premier Icon stevenmenmuir
    Subscriber

    On-One Scandal 26er Vertical Dropout Frame

    Lightweight 3.5lb race frame. Fast, responsive and tough.

    A race proven 7046 alloy frame that can be set up with rigid forks or up to 100mm suspension. Same geometry as our Inbred frames building on years of hard testing and development.

    So ride position will be the same on a Scandal as an Inbred if everything else is equal.
    I have a Scandal it’s a very capable bike and very comfortable too. I also have a steel 456. Usually which one I rides depends on which one is working. The 456 is a great no frills bike. I do quite a lot of riding in the Highlands and I love it for that kind of riding, I find it climbs well considering its weight and feels secure on the descents. The Scandal is great on faster rides but I have also ridden it on 6+hour rides no problem. I’d say if you think you might want something with a bit more travel and don’t mind it weighing more get the 456. If you want something a bit lighter but almost as capable, get a Scandal. I’d only get an Inbred if you absolutely won’t have an alu frame and don’t want to run forks longer than 100mm. Hope that helps.

    oldgwegg
    Member

    @stevenmenmuir – thanks – thats what I thought (that the Scandal and the Inbred were the same frame design/geometry). BUT, is there likely to be any difference in strength between the two ? I can appreciate the weight difference in favour of the Scandal but I’m not really up to speed with the Alu vs Steel thing. Why wouldn’t I want the lighter one, even if it alu (rhetorical question) ?

    Saccades
    Member

    The inbred was the original xc machine, check which model (age) you get as they went from 80mm to 100mm to 120mm specced as the trend for bigger forks continued – Brant (probably) or a post on here will tell you which is which due to chainstays and seatstays.

    That said I had a 100mm specced version with a 125mm phaon on it and did some jumps and general xc with no bother (at ~16 stone).

    The 456 was originally designed when the inbred was being built with 100mm forks in mind – A long travel hardtail that had a some larger diameter pipes so weighed more but was able for much tougher stuff and aimed to use 100 to 150mm forks (4″ = 100, 5″=125 and 6″ =150mm), hence the name.

    The scandal was a lighter version of the inbred for racing.

    Summer season was a cheap frame for short forks being used on v steep ups and downs.

    the 567 was designed for mental long forks – 2 built I think?

    The benefit of steel is that you can crash it and then get a fella in a shed to weld it back together/bend it back in place – unlike the aluminium which needs a specialist to weld it and once bent is buggered.

    I had a inbred and then got a 456, the inbred is lighter and the shorter fork was great for all day xc, the 456 is much heavier due to the build (alfine etc) and I’m overbiked truth be told, but it has that indestructable feeling as I’m flying over stuff, that the inbred would have been sketchy on, vice versa it’s needs some oomph to get it going..

    Edit to say – all the on-one’s pass the CEN testing for strength, so that’s not a bother. The tubes on a aluminium frame hate side hits (frame landing sideways say) compared to a steel frame – but hit anything and it’ll crumple.

    Premier Icon jasonm945
    Subscriber

    In a weird twist I would say that the scandal frame is as compliant as the inbred (if not more so) and 1 1/2lbs lighter. I believe Brant designed the scandal frame to feel as steel-like as possible (though I could be wrong so await him to correct me!)

    If I had the choice of those 3 frames the scandal is the way I would go for long XC rides.

    Jay

    Premier Icon FOG
    Subscriber

    Yeah, they’re brilliant, oh and by the way I’m selling an 18″ 2010 one in manly red/pink which has done very little.
    {Don’t think anybody spotted that shameless plug]

    Premier Icon Cheezpleez
    Subscriber

    You’ll be fine on a 456, Inbred or Scandal. However, for what you want, I’d go for a Scandal first, then an Inbred, then a 456. You’re on a tight budget so bear in mind that you may well need a new stem. On-Ones are long frames, designed to be used with a short stem (80mm max, I think). I’m guessing you’re aware you may also need new seatpost, front mech, BB, etc

    oldgwegg
    Member

    Thanks for the last few comments – very helpful and informative. Thats the history or guide of On One frames that I couldn’t find when I did a quick search earlier. Excellent.

    So, a Scandal it is then – and I think I just got permission to get a new one.

    @Cheezpleez – no I didn’t realise I might need new BB, front mech, seatpost, etc. I thought I read on the On One site that the BB is standard 68, which is what I’ve got. Hopefully that’ll be OK. Bummer if I can’t carry over most of my bits.

    Whats the best way to determine what I can use ? OK – just had a look at the On One website again. Guess I just need to measure up the frame on my current bike at a few places – hopefully all will be good.

    @FOG – cheers for mentioning you have one for sale – but I’m only 5’6″ though so guessing I’ll be going for 16″.

    Premier Icon Rusty Spanner
    Subscriber

    Definitely worth checking one for size before you decide to buy:
    I’m just over 5’6″ and find 16″ On One’s right on the upper limit for size.

    Shame really, I’d have had a 456 years ago otherwise – everyone I know who’s had one really rates them.

    It’s a very personal thing, obviously, and I know a few people about the same size who don’t have a problem, but might be worth thinking about.

    For comparison, small Cotic Souls and 15″ Rock Lobsters fit me fine.

    Premier Icon Rusty Spanner
    Subscriber

    Glitchybump.

    oldgwegg
    Member

    Thanks Rusty – s**t, maybe I’m too titchy for even a 16″. I don’t think I can be riding around on the kids frame ! Maybe I can put blocks on the pedals like when I was a kid !! Think I’ll just measure up my current frame first and see how it compares. Cheers for the heads-up.

    carbon337
    Member

    Have you thought about a carbon one? I have a cheap one in classifieds 🙂 Just saying]

    EDIT Sorry ignore me it would be too big for you.

    Picto
    Member

    Echoing what a lot of others have already said. I have a ti456 and thought it was a superb all rounder. Rode a fair few enduros on it. Not a full blown race bike but really good trail bike.

    IF you are wanting to run one for XC duties you would probably get away with a slightly longer top tube.

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