In the mercifully few collisions I’ve had on my bike, every one of them was the car driver’s fault. And in every case I’ve heard of where someone I know has had a collision, it’s been the same. I’ve admittedly had one or two lapses of concentration, but thankfully never caused a collision.

So some cyclists do silly things; attacking a small minority of cyclists who genuinely do things which cause danger to other road users is backwards and totally unhelpful. Because the simple truth is, the vast majority of cyclists don’t ride in a manner that puts themselves in danger. They simply don’t. Running the odd red light when it’s safe for a cyclist to do so may infuriate frustrated motorists, but it seldom causes any real harm. Plus the relatively slow speed and low weight of a cyclist is seldom sufficient to cause serious injury.

Millions have been spent on dedicated cycle lanes (as well as millions wasted on painting blue strips on dangerous main roads), and things are improving, but it’s at glacial pace really. Rather than cyclists replacing other vehicles, they are simply more sharing the same space on the roads.

The recent spate of large construction projects in the City and central London has meant a large increase in the number of HGVs on the roads of the capital. But I don’t suppose a few cyclists dying will stand in the way of rampant corporate development. There are many ways of addressing matters, and making the roads safer for all, but they’re not being explored, as it seems corporate interests will always trump the needs of greater society.

It’s massively oversimplifying to suggest that these incidents are purely caused by the fact that some cyclists are riding without skill and judgement!

Basic consideration of the road environment (multiple independent actors with a whole range of abilities, experience and attitudes towards the law + many different road layouts and road conditions and weather conditions etc) tells you that the behaviour of a single group cannot influence things to the degree that they cause their own deaths!

The data says three things:
1. Lorries are disproportionally involved in the deaths of cyclists in London (see data posted above)
2. Collisions between people on bikes and people driving are disproportionally the fault of the driver (see link to Westminster study above)
3. The number of people cycling has massively increased in recent years. By definition that means there’s an increase in the proportion of riders who are inexperienced

Anecdote suggests:
1. There’s a low respect for operating with skill, consideration and within the law amongst all road user groups – cyclists, drivers, pedestrians
2. There’s a horribly anti-cyclist attitude in the UK – within the Police, CPS, courts, and many drivers.

Personally I take the advice my Grandad gave to my Mum when she started driving in the early ’60s (ie: not new advice!) – “assume everyone else on the road is an idiot”

So whilst when I’m cycling I will keep to the law, to best cycling practice as I understand it, and commonsense, my bitter experience is that it is not keeping me out of danger – too many psychotic, ill-informed, impatient and aggressive drivers out there.

Consideration of the cycling environment, data, anecdote and experience (c5k miles on my bike this year) suggest that whilst my own behaviour can keep me safe to a large degree, there’s no way that 100% adherence to best practice and the law will stop getting cyclists killed… that’s way too simplistic…

There’s a lot of change needed to make cycling safe. Our own behaviour is one contributor but only one…

Dammit, this is really interesting, but I have to go out. I’ll be back…

yep, the same ones available to hearing people.

my point is that just because you have earphones in it does not make you immediately unaware of your surroundings, nor does it actually mean you can’t hear.

What you’re actually grumpy about is people not paying attention, there is a difference, but too often people jump to the ‘earphones in, therefore not listening’ conclusion.

and, yes I have personal experience of this as a person wwith only partial hearing.

@karenofnine

I agree with your comments, I have been commuting in London for 15 years and have noticed in the past few years with the massive increase in numbers of cyclists, a very noticeable decrease in the numbers of “safe” cyclists on the roads.

I only commute 3 miles each direction to work at the moment, from NW1 to WC2H.

Even bearing in mind this short distance, every day I see numerous instances of cyclists RLJ, pavement pedalling, cyclists going through pedestrians on a pedestrian crossing and going up the inside of HGV and Buses (often between the vehicle and steel railings).

Only this morning I thought I was about to see a fatality when a lad on a bike (wearing headphones) squeezed up in the inside of a large lorry waiting at red light, even though the lorry was indicating to make a left turn, and was sitting at an angle to make this left turn. I tried shouting to warn him, but was 15 feet behind the lorry and he could not hear me!

Once the lights changed, as the lorry pulled forward the gap quickly narrowed, he swerved, hit the kerb with his tires and fell onto the pavement holding his bike. Thank god there were no railings there.

The junction between Southampton Row and Russell Square (going south towards Covent Garden) is notorious for cyclists RLJ and riding up onto the pavement to get around the light. You can sit on your bike at the stop line and see 6-8 cyclists merrily going through this junction whilst pedestrians are crossing on their green light, whilst all motor vehicle traffic has stopped.

yes I will see bad driving, but the traffic is not moving very fast in Central London (it seems to be heavily gridlocked most of the time)

we have to sort ourselves out in terms of making other cyclists aware of the danger they put themselves and other road users in ( pedestrians, motorbikers and even motorists) as a careless or dangerous cyclist can easily instigate a road traffic collision

nope, horse, bicycle, tricycle, moped on L plates (as long as license prior to Jan 2013), mobility scooter, and on foot!

however another way to look at is is that it is only motor vehicles that require a license/training, everyone else is just plain allowed to be there if they want to be*

*doesn’t mean I don’t think training is a good idea though

so lets ban people who are deaf or have hearing problems and we’ll be banning car radios too eh?

Drop the headphones thing it’s bollocks.

yep and the ones that are cyclist fault tend to result in bruises, grazes and sprains. Kinetic energy innit, cyclists don’t have much compared to cars – there are a few KSI cases caused by cyclists and that is a terrible thing, but amending driver behaviour will save a lot more lives than amending cyclist behaviour. But yeah both would be good.

<edit>BTW I’m all for a bit of training, especially cycle training in school so everyone gets to ride a bike on roads. Teaching kids to stop at redlights may stay with them once they get a licence too (don’t forget the multitude of RLJ drivers) and learning to watch out for drivers being dicks will save a few people. Of course actually stopping drivers being dicks will save a lot more.

We shouldn’t ignore bad cycling habits, but to focus on them rather than address the far more serious issue of the dangers posed by large vehicles helps no-one.

true indeed, the way some people rant you get the feeling they wont even consider doing anything until every last cyclist is a 100% law abiding and trained to perfection. It’s not an either or situation…

That’s a little unfair, there is (supposed to be) plenty in there, however it’s down to the individual instructors how they deliver and push this and problem being many people forget/ignore it after passing.

Could probably be improved/stressed more but to say there’s nothign in there is a bit unfair, and I’m all for being fair.

had a few learner drivers do close passes, I always wonder if the instructor told them off later, in one or two cases I wondered WTF the instructor hadn’t grabbed the wheel to steer away from me….

Oh and I did my test <10years ago I don’t remember anything about cyclists other than them being hazards on the awareness test.

@amedias

I cannot speak for him, but from my observations I think a lot of new cyclists just don’t understand how dangerous riding in heavy traffic can actually be, and how quickly things can go wrong (especially the HGV fatalities where it only takes brief contact with tire to get pulled under vehicle)

The old advise was “assume everyone is out to kill you” which just means keeping your wits about you at all times, and not putting yourself into risky situations where something can quickly go very wrong and perhaps cause serious injury or death

Something experienced commuters in London will tell you (I work in bike shops and hear this a lot) is what a hazard other cyclists have become to them in recent years, with lots of near misses from cyclists RLJ, failing to indicate, undercutting cyclists who are riding defensively in the correct position on the road, suddenly swerving, etc.

I regularly have cyclists trying to ride against me on a one-way street I use every day in Covent Garden, even when there is a motor vehicle just behind me.

The street outside our bike shop in Covent Garden is also one-way and our customers, shop staff and pedestrians have had numerous near misses as well as several accidents as riders plough into them after speeding the wrong-way up this street – if a motor vehicle is coming the cyclist will move onto the pavement (there is no kerb edge) to get around the oncoming vehicle.

Its become such a problem that the local Police Team has undertaken several blitzes ticketing cyclists, and the local authority has adjusted the no-entry signage on the street to reinforce this (not that these cyclists pay any attention..)

What we need to do is take a “scientific approach” to this…

We have a situation where something bad is happening and there is debate over what is the cause. It is affecting people across the country, not just London.

So, looking at other similar situations, I would say it is very much like the Badger/Bovine TB debate.

I propose a selective cull of cyclists in one area, I’m going to nominate Manchester as a suitable candidate, and then what we can do is compare statistics before and after the cull.

Rachel

Whereas if they simply banned cars from using those narrow streets (which are particularly unsuitable for motor vehicle traffic), and made them two-way for cyclists, the problem would be drastically reduced.

Can’t we simply cull all people in Manchester?

It’s not just cycling numpties in london who give us a bad name. I’ve begun to notice more and more of them in leeds and huddersfield every day.
Last nights numpty was wearing a grey corduroy jacket, black jeans (his sisters probably), no lights, no reflectors, and massive beats style headphones where i could hear his music from 10ft away. The little sh1te then tried to jump the red light and sneak across the ringroad from the station side of trinity street (stupid stupid stupid)

I wear earphones myself HOWEVER i only every listen to spoken word podcasts whilst riding and on low volume. I never listen to music and i can hear traffic around me just fine.

I’ve been flamed on here when i told how i’d had a conversation with another rider who was doing stupid maneuvers everyday and he’d reacted poorly to my advice. He still rides like a twonk everyday and it does my nut in. TBH if riders are going to be stupid then they are increasing their chance of dying.

I found cycling training extremely useful (i did bikeabilty level 3) and will insist that my nephews and niece all do it as well, even if i pay for it myself. It should be compulsory in schools – and there should be more awareness work done when people are being taught to drive. Flame me for sterotyping but my most recent near misses have been taxi drivers and young women/teenage girls

On a more serious level to my previous post, I must admit that having spent years riding in Cambridge, I just won’t do it any more – it’s too dangerous, even compared to actual Mountain Biking…

The trouble is; the cause is very obviously other cyclists – last Winter I counted the bikes that actually had working lights that I saw between the centre and the train station – a big fat zero. Didn’t seem to stop them doing all sorts of stupid things, including the one that had a go at me for stopping at a pedestrian crossing and riding into the back of my bike. :-/

Rachel

@cybicle

I’d love to see motor vehicles removed from city centres, but as it stands we cannot use our feelings about “what should be” as an excuse to ignore cyclists that are breaking the law and putting people in danger.

The area around our shop is all one-way streets, and it only takes 30 seconds more on your bike to take the correct route to get onto Long Acre, rather than short cutting this by riding up a one-way street that has numerous pedestrians laden with shopping coming down the pavements.

The concern the police have about our street is that sooner or later someone will actually get killed, and it will probably be a cyclist having a head-on collision with a motor vehicle, because these cyclists are coming into this street off a left turn that is clearly designated “no left turn” and “no entry” and this corner is blind

You can stand in our shop in the morning when we take deliveries (there is a parking bay across the street) and watch numerous cyclists whizzing the wrong way up this one-way street, at considerable speed

I agree with your first point in full. Very valid.

Second point? Utter shit. Sorry.

Do whatever you like? Really? So, mow your way through the red light outside a school? (Child’s face, etc). Perhaps you’d like to ride the wrong way down a cycle lane? How about just nipping along the pavement down Cannon Street? After all, far safer to be on there than with those nasty HGVs…

No. Not the answer, and I’m struggling to work out if you’re trolling or just a bit stupid, to be honest.

The answer, as many have said, is better awareness for ALL road users, better design of road junctions for ALL road users, better design of vehicles on the road (Look at what the trucking industry has already done with mirrors, audible signals etc. Still a lot to be done, but….), and a massive amount more common sense for ALL road users.

Advocating RLJing and riding on pavements it entirely counterproductive.

@crazy-legs

I’m sorry let me correct my sentence for your nit-picking sensibilities

It’s not just cycling numpties in london who give all cyclists including the readers and contributors to this conversation thread who the vast majority will identify themselves as cyclists a bad name. I’ve begun to notice more and more of them in leeds and huddersfield every day.

FTFY

EDIT: And no it is far from alright for those pathetic drivers to punish pass other cyclists for the numpties mistakes

But when those laws are drawn up to accommodate motor vehicle use, they often discount cyclists as unworthy of consideration. You know how if the council put a path round a patch of grass or park, and everyone takes a shortcut diagonally, creating a new path? That’s what cyclists are doing, in a way. It’s not ideal, but cyclists are often inconvenienced in order for car drivers to be catered for. Covent Garden s a **** nightmare to cycle round, chiefly because the road system is designed for motor vehicle traffic, in an area unsuitable for such heavy vehicle use. What should be happening in such areas, is enforced reduction of motor vehicles, especially at busy times. I can’t see why it’s a good idea to allow private motor vehicles in that area at all, during the day. Yet another example of the ‘car is king’ mentality that prevails. This attitude must be challenged if we’re to find an effective solution. Constantly pandering to motorists doesn’t help matters at all.

Agreed in full. This was covered in your first point above. The second was the stupid comment.

I agree though, we need to get people focussing on how to be safer. I’d amend your points as follows;

It’s worked for me for ages in London. Not one incident/near miss crash in years. (Apart from breaking my own point 2 by falling off when a little pished riding home from my local one night. Oops. All my own fault, and on an empty road thankfully)