I’m with TJ on this one.

You’ve got to look at taxation as a whole too, including VAT, Fuel Duty etc. Do that and the poor pay more than the rich.

And where do the rich get there money from? They don’t just create it out of thin air, its money transferred from other people in society. If they’ve got none to spend, the economy collapses. You can’t stimulate the economy with tax cuts to the rich at the expense of the poor. Can you??

For a small business all the various taxes are a complete pain in the arse. Its not like we actually spend NI on pensions, road tax on the roads. In reality it all just goes into one big pot. The tax system in this country is so bloody complicated that it allows people to find all the loop holes and skip paying tax. Personally I think that it should be simplified into one flat rate or at least far fewer taxes as they are used for more than just collecting money they are also used to control habits.

Also why should the rich pay a higher %. They pay more anyway as they earn more. If you work bloody hard and are successful why should you then have to pay so much tax. I don’t think you should pay less like in some countries where the more you earn the less % you pay. Granted there are some rich people we all hate and we want to pay lots of tax but in reality there aren’t many rich people that have just lucked out, they usually have worked bloody hard for it or have taken lots or personal risks.

The first thing we need to do is stop throwing so much bloody money down the drain. An article in the Telegraph last week said there were 30K people in council houses that were earning over £60,000 and the subsidy was costing the country £120 million. WHAT!!!!! Bloody hell kick them out. My household income is far below that and I don’t expect to get cheap housing from the government. If this is just one example god only knows where else we waste money.

I have nothing against people getting money from the state if they need it but it hacks me off when people who really need the money get hardly anything, when at the same time we pay for people on massive incomes to live in council houses, and all because we want to have some lefty policy that says once someone has a council house they can have it for life and in some cases they can also pass it on to their children. When you need subsidized housing then you should get it and when you don’t need it you should have to move out and battle on like the rest of us. That life!!

Woody – the rich usually have got their money thru abuse of power not from hard work.

COEs of listed companies remuneration has gone up 50% over the last few years despite the profits and values of the companies falling.

Does anyone need or deserve and income that is multimillions a year?

Yep. Me.

what road tax 🙄

yes the only way you can be rich is to work hard and if you are poor it is because you are lazy TRUE DAT INNIT

Nice attempt to rant at poor people “fleecing ” the system when it is about rich people avoiding tax.
You are cptFlash and I claim My 5 whatever country he claims to be in this week currency

If you shut the **** up I am on board with this 😉

It’d only take a small annual donation from all STWers and I’d **** off forever.

I think you’ge just nailed your colours to the mast for pretty much any realistic debate on economics TJ

Not everyone is a heartless mercenary looking to get paid as much as possible. Unlike those in the city.

You ever met a surgeon apart from being on the other side of the desk at hospital? 😀

Personally if I’d been told I was going to get paid the same as everyone else I’d still have studied the same things but then afterwards I’d have been a lumberjack and used my spare time and cash to do the stuff I enjoy in my spare time.

JunkYard

I never said that poor people are poor because they are lazy and I am not ranting about poor people fleecing the system. I actually think that if you need benefits then you should get far far more. What annoys me is people getting benefits who don’t needed it. Someone on £60K can afford to buy or rent a home like the rest of us. Why should I have to pay for them to have subsidised housing. And why should the cancer patient be told they can’t have a certain drug as it is to expensive when there’s money to pay someones rent who could easily afford it themselves.

It annoys everyone but its not the massive problem or cost its made out to be by the right wing press like The Telegraph, so calm down.

Sorry I was being a bit sarcastic….It’s just that we are in a massive recession (possibly double dip) due to housing boom and bust in many economies. Hence we have to be very careful to control housing. I’m not against having more houses built in a reasonable way, but we have to be extremely careful how the housing market is controlled.

However lets face it for large parts of the UK we have a high population denisty and that alone will keep house prices high. Supply and demand.

Twos on that…

Well JY – A level economics starts this week with Paper 1 with lots of short answers and I am sure that there will be questions of taxation. If students want to write that a flat of tax with minimum threshold is not progressive and score a big fat zero, then good luck to them.

I am surprised given that you usually are keen to talk about facts when others aren’t. But so be it. At least the A level students will be better prepared.

And a simple question – under the current tax system are there times when people earning more than others actually play lower marginal rats of tax?

The simplest way to achieve progressivity in an income tax is to have a tax-free allowance before tax starts being payable. To see this, suppose the first £10,000 of income is free of tax and all further income is taxed at 20%. Someone earning £20,000 has a marginal tax rate of 20%. Their average tax rate is 10%.a Someone earning £100,000 would still face a marginal rate of 20%, but their average rate would be 18%. Thus a flat tax—an income tax charged at a single constant rate above a tax- free allowance—is progressive, as long as there is a tax-free allowance. This income tax can be made more progressive by (i) increasing the tax-free allowance, (ii) increasing the single rate of tax, or (iii) introducing one or more higher marginal tax rates on higher incomes. Progressivity does not, however, require that the marginal
tax rate keeps on increasing as incomes rise.

Mirrlees Review, Chapter 2, Page 24 (if facts are at all relevant?)

BR – Meaning the superrich – those earning millions – they get their money from abuse of power. There is no link with how effective they are in their role or anything else. Top execs of listed companies have seen their remuneration go up 50% in the last few years despite the recession for one example of this

As for the other comment – its the 50% taxpayers who are rich – they are in the top 10% of the nations earners that makes them rich – but not superrich.

That’s a very strong charge to be making. Can you support this claim of “abuse” with facts? Having your coffee break reduced from 15mins to 10 does not constitute an abuse.

What exactly do you think these people actually do?

Tehr is absolutely no evidence of this in any meaningful way at all. Its one of those right wing myths put about.

Ah right – so you want massive cuts in services then.

Whixh is simply incorrect as you know.

Utter utter bullshit

there is no dispute – if you earn enough to get into the top tax band youa re one of the richest 10%

As an excuse for not closing tax loopholes. You couldn’t make it up. 🙄

Apparently there is?
TSY has a good and still unanswered question TJ. Have you ever worked alongside these captains of industry that you accuse of abuse?