Viewing 25 posts - 41 through 65 (of 65 total)
  • 3 Peaks Cyclo-Cross: No Gravel Bikes Allowed
  • BenjiM
    Free Member

    Ranking points are available during the race, hence it’s taken pretty seriously.

    IdleJon
    Full Member

    For those saying “it’s a CX race! Therefore” – it’s not like any other CX race, so CX rules need not apply, it’s entirely up to the organisers. Normal CX races have assistance only in 1 place , the pits,  for one thing.

    It is the 3 Peaks Cyclocross Race. They run to CX rules amended to suit their event.  I seem to remember three official support points –  Cold Cotes, next to the viaduct and then the bottom of PyG – with rules about support in other places. So, think about it having 3 pits – seems reasonable for an event which is at least 3 times longer than a standard CX race. And I’m not sure why anyone is arguing against the rules – if you don’t like them, don’t do the race. There are plenty of other events.

    crazy-legs
    Full Member

    It is the 3 Peaks Cyclocross Race. They run to CX rules amended to suit their event.

    It’s one of those weird anomalies that’s “allowed” because it’s traditional, it’s the Three Peaks, etc. If you tried to introduce a race like that now, no-one would touch it, it would be laughed out of the room before you’d even finished pitching it. But because it is so brilliantly bonkers, it’s been sort of allowed to run more or less according to its own rules.

    It’s a British Cycling event – yet it would fail every single one of BC’s risk assessments, rules & regulations, and event criteria. If you tried to market that as a Sportive, everyone would look at it in utter bewilderment and it’d have no entries. But it’s the Three Peaks, so it’s a cycling institution!

    I remember the first time I read about it (probably a race report in Cycling Weekly or something), way back in the 90’s and just thinking WTAF?! And then somehow getting interested enough to actually see it, then get a CX bike and eventually to put an entry in. I do remember some of the races being utterly insane back in the days of 700+ riders and I’ve ridden it in some truly horrendous conditions – one year (50th anniversary of the race IIRC) there were several sections of the course that were flooded.

    MrAgreeable
    Full Member

    For everyone moaning about the race being “exclusive”, two female first timers  from my (tiny, very much non BC-affiliated, non competitive) riding club have been offered places this year. I do raise an eyebrow at some of the more pernickety rules but it also feels like the organisers know what they’re doing.

    thisisnotaspoon
    Free Member

    with rules about support in other places. So, think about it having 3 pits – seems reasonable for an event which is at least 3 times longer than a standard CX race. And I’m not sure why anyone is arguing against the rules – if you don’t like them, don’t do the race. There are plenty of other events.

    I think the argument against support/pits is that it doesn’t just help the (semi) pro’s, it adversely affects locals and spectators as it’s not “3 pits” it’s 1 pit, racing between locations to get ahead of the race and setup for their rider.

    I don’t think eliminating the pits would change much, it’s not like a normal winter CX course in a park where you need 2 bikes and a jetwash, and ripping mechs off in the is common. Tubeless all but eliminated punctures, the sharp end is riding through relatively unridden tracks (i.e. not cloggy mud), which just leaves crashes and major mechanicals, which wouldn’t be out of character with the random madness of it all to say tough luck you should have avoided that rock.

    fooman
    Full Member

    Female riders are under-represented so more likely to be offered a place. Last year my sister-in-law said if I bought her a gravel frame, she would enter the race. I’m not saying I wanted to see her suffer but it was the best £300 I’ve spent (I didn’t say I’d buy her a new frame!) and yes she raced and got a sub 5 hour first time. My daughter was also a first time entrant last year both finished with no issues. No car support my wife biked round on the road to help out if if required but they didn’t need it.

    ironbrucove
    Full Member

    Issue with no bike changes or wheels, is they are are allowed in a normal cross race round a field. I get the point about the massive support cavalcade though. They could have a unsupported category, but then some bugger would cheat at that as well.

    tjagain
    Full Member

    Only if you think “gravel” is a fairly recent innovation. I bought my Kona Sutra in 2007 IIRC.

    I was riding gravel on a road bike with CX tyres back in the 80s  We called it “roughstuff” but its whats now called gravel.  My dad was doing it on an SS road bike back in the 50s.  BIkes have been around since before tarmac so way back in the day everyone was riding “gravel”

    scotroutes
    Full Member

    Yeah but if you looked at a 2006 Sutra it would pretty much match your average gravel bike of today. Drop bars, disk brakes, decent tyre clearance. It certainly wasn’t a CX bike. As has been pointed out already, they’re typically lighter and have snappier/sharper handling. “Alt” bars have been around since bikes were invented too. My point is – as you seem to agree – “gravel” riding was around before everyone started calling it such.

    In my opinion it’s handy to have the deliniation between gravel and CX too. When I was selling bikes we’d get loads of folk asking for a CX bike who had no intention of racing and were after a comfier, more robust, road bike, usually with disc brakes and often used for commuting so they’d want mudguard and rack fittings.

    mrchrist
    Full Member

    There are plenty of other events that will allow non-cyclo-cross bicycles in.

    I think this is the only bike race that takes in the Yorkshire 3 peaks and there is not another opportunity to ride the 3 peaks so the above statement does not apply to here.

    rOcKeTdOg
    Full Member

    That 27″, 29” or 700mm wheels in mountain bike frames will not be allowed;

    I can get 27.5 X 2.4 and 29x 2.1 tyres easily in my drop bar cotic cascade so not an MTB frame but it’s really a drop bar MTB so 🤷‍♂️

    I’m all for tradition but sounds like the rule makers should get up to date with current tech and ban drop bar bikes with clearance too as they exist

    Will there be scrutineers like in F1 doing spot checks with a tape measure checking geometry?

    crazy-legs
    Full Member

    Will there be scrutineers like in F1 doing spot checks with a tape measure checking geometry?

    I wouldn’t mind if there were but it seems very ad-hoc. One year a guy was going round with a cardboard cutout to a 35mm wedge to measure tyres but it was more a token gesture – so many riders with spare wheels and bikes that it’s easy to get a slightly wider tyred bike on a hillside somewhere far away from the gaze of any race officials. It’s an impossible race to fully enforce, it sort of relies on general good sportsmanship and a degree of respect for the rules and traditions.

    minnellium
    Free Member

    Crikey, that guy is a looker. 😊

    Have to disagree about the ‘no bike changes’ thing.  It’s a cyclo-cross. I know it’s a strange course, but the clue is in the name.  It’s fine for many disciplines to not have changes, no problem with that.  But in ‘cross, we do.

    (The traffic thing is just because the field of riders is too big.  But the event costs so much to put on that they need the revenue, so yes, a tricky one)

    Clover
    Full Member

    I’ve done it with support and without.

    Mechanically I’ve largely got away with it and never had to use the second best (by a long way) bike I sometimes had spare.

    However food is the massive issue for me. You just can’t carry enough (or actually I think I stop having the mental capacity to get it out of pockets and bags). One year I was dying as I started climbing up Pen y Gent and someone I knew randomly had some bars ‘just in case’ and put one in my hand. I don’t think I would have made it without that!

    Making the cut off at the top of Ingleborough the first year that I did it – also the crazy 2012 edition where the course was flooded and the dibbing stations loomed out of the slate grey mist like weirdly cheery sentries to Mordor – I think I was the most elated I’ve ever been on a bike. If I could do one peak in a 40 mile an hour wind, I could surely finish. I did and it is still one of my most memorable rides ever.

    FunkyDunc
    Free Member

    One of my favourite pics from 3 Peaks. That’s got to have hurt ! 😳

    MrSparkle
    Full Member

    Agreed. That’s the most memorable one of them for me too. I was buzzing so much when I finished. Absolutely exhilarated and then went a bit hyperthermic!

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    One of my favourite pics from 3 Peaks. That’s got to have hurt !

    Illegal extreme flex-steerer technology. Hopefully outlawed by now.

    It’s a great shot, can’t work out if it’s him before realisation or at the ‘close eyes, accept fate’ stage.

    convert
    Full Member

    Normal CX races have assistance only in 1 place , the pits, for one thing

    One way of looking at. Another way would be that normal cx races have assistance every 6 mins or so.

    3 peaks has always been a law unto itself. And plenty people want to be involved so I guess why not continue.

    But is it really a race anymore? Like a lot of events I’d call it an elite race for 20 or 30 pointy end competitors financed by a mass entry free-for-all of no hopers there for the experience. I guess for the bulk you make a pretence about caring about the rules to make you feel part of the ‘race’ and to keep the land owners happy you’ve not turned it into a mountain bike event…….but you are just a cash cow.

    wzzzz
    Free Member

    there is not another opportunity to ride the 3 peaks

    Eh, I used to live near the foot of one of them and rode all 3 regularly. Not on a CX bike, obviously – I’m not insane.

    thecaptain
    Free Member

    Well yes but I suspect the poster meant ride legally.

    Only Ingleborough has a bridleway up and that’s not the route most would ride.

    thecaptain
    Free Member

    You know, you lot could save yourselves a lot of bother by running the 3 peaks instead. The tops are open access land, you can go round whenever you want, and if you really want to race then that isn’t such a scrum to enter, you just need to show you can manage the distance via some comparable prior experience.

    You don’t have to carry a bike round either. Really, it’s the smart option.

    (though arguably not quite as smart as not bothering with the bike, run, or walk versions at all 🙂 )

    chipps
    Full Member

    A few answers to add to the queries here:


    @thecaptain
    – the track halfway up PyG is also a bridleway, but I think it’s allowed as it’s also a track as far as the gate.

    35mm tyres have been allowed for years – and note that the rules say ’35mm as stated’ – not all are equal 😉

    There are murmurings among the race organisers about looking to bring in a one-bike-per-racer rule in future, which’d stop the file-tread bike swaps for the road sections.

    I can see the argument for banning droppers, but it’s not that different using a seat QR, or even an Allen key to drop your saddle, so I don’t reckon it’s worth policing. Besides, I’d argue that dropping your saddle is as much a safety thing as a speed thing.

    And talking of policing, I’d reckon that the further near the front you are, the more legit your bike has to be. A slightly flared bike that comes in 350th isn’t going to worry anyone.

    I love the Peaks, this’ll be my 12th race over a 30 year stretch. I love that it still maintains a village fete feel – they only got a podium about five years ago! If it were in the US, it’d cost $500 an entry and be sponsored by Jeep. I think that if they want to keep the rules relatively tight, then great. There are other events out there, but really only one Three Peaks… 🙂

    twisty
    Full Member

    I see the need to limit the event to CX bikes but is the execution of the rules any good?

    “The width of the tyre cannot be more than 35mm as displayed on the tyre”
    This is soft compared to UCI which limits the width to 33mm measured with an actual template. Surely this is open to abuse bodging with rim width and tyres with real measurements that are larger than the label.

    Also, I wonder what the definition of flared handlebars is, because most CX riders and even a good portion of road riders run ergo bars with drops a bit wider than the tops?!

    Also they state that no road bikes are allowed, but none of the actual cycle design rules preclude a road bike…

    crazy-legs
    Full Member

    Also they state that no road bikes are allowed, but none of the actual cycle design rules preclude a road bike…

    Yeah there’s a huge amount of crossover possible in terms of fitting road tyres or having gravel tyres on a road bike (my disc road bike will take 33mm tyres at a push).

    That said, it’d probably break if I tried riding it down PyG so there’s an element of “you get what you deserve” if you try and use unsuitable bikes.

    Surely this is open to abuse bodging with rim width and tyres with real measurements that are larger than the label.

    You’d have to do a LOT of comparison work with wheels and tyres for a gain of only 1 or 2mm in the real world of tyre width. Better off just buying a 35c listed tyre, banging an insert into it, filling it with sealant and getting on with life.

    bigrich
    Full Member

    is a gravel bike that confirms to UCI regs on CX still a gravel bike?

     

    gravel bikes are the biggest load of marketing nonsense in bikes for some time, and thats saying something.

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