29er geometry geeks…

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  • 29er geometry geeks…
  • Ramsey Neil
    Member

    Surely one of the big advantages of 29ers is that it’s a lot less likely that you will go over the bars compared to a 26in bike .
    So many more factors affect the ride than just the angles . The big firms have had many years to get geometry sorted so you would be better off just buying off the shelf from one of them IMO .

    Premier Icon Clink
    Subscriber

    Surely one of the big advantages of 29ers is that it’s a lot less likely that you will go over the bars compared to a 26in bike .
    So many more factors affect the ride than just the angles . The big firms have had many years to get geometry sorted so you would be better off just buying off the shelf from one of them IMO .

    Depends what you want the bike for. Big firms make bikes for certain purposes and things that will fit most people. They don’t cater for every end use. Many ‘big firms’ have also only just started making 29ers too.

    Ramsey Neil
    Member

    Well Trek incorporate Gary Fisher who started the whole thing over 10 years ago so they , like most of the American firms , have been doing it for plenty enough time to get gometries really dialled , that’s partly why the sudden explosion this year .
    Also I’m sure they tried hundreds of designs that didn’t work as well as they hoped they would . So the chances of the man in his shed knocking something up first time that’s better is pretty remote .

    Premier Icon jameso
    Subscriber

    So the chances of the man in his shed knocking something up first time that’s better is pretty remote .

    Just as good a chance as a design by comittee for the masses I reckon.

    Ramsey Neil
    Member

    Probably correct but the comittee could afford to try and fail hundreds of times if necessary .

    Premier Icon pedalhead
    Subscriber

    well having ridden a Gary Fisher 29er for a few weeks, amongst others, I still decided it wasn’t what I was looking for, nor ideally suited to a specific task in mind. Great if an off the peg bike ticks your boxes, none do for me (that I have found / ridden), hence I have a custom frame coming along shortly.

    Premier Icon metalheart
    Subscriber

    Gary Fisher was an early adopter but he wasn’t the first…

    Back in ’98 I happened to be passing through CB and stumbled into this guys shop

    He was expounding the joys of the 29er at that point.

    There is some interesting stuff on his site IMHO inc a nice little video…

    Edit: glad to see the price of his frames have come down since then 😀

    martinxyz
    Member

    I would ride as much as i could. Even if it meant hanging around for another year to do this.. it would be worth it. The costly mistake first time around might be fine if you can afford it but still a bit of a ball ache.

    If you ride stuff and find a few that you cant really fault then why not copy it to a point but alter the finer details to make it perfect for you?

    This is what i would do. I like the swift and having never thought about doing stuff to it i would like to try a slightly slacker headtube on it,maybe slap a pressfit bb in there and a tapered headtube. Sam would probably have a fit lol.. but thats just something random off the top of my head. I would also lower bottle cage bolts as far down the downtube as possible.Maybe fit an ugly (but functional) set of dropouts on it with a bit of adjustment.. not sure what else but i certainly wouldnt go playing around if i couldnt afford the mistakes.. and dont think that whatever you ask for is going to be built exactly like you asked for. Some frame company boffs will easily tell you the truth if you ask them nicely. Theres been some right old F-ups that have been very costly to some over the past year.A shame,but they would have put their trust in a name they thought were building great stuff.. only to find out the truth.

    As for going to the local frame builder down the road.. theres someone on here (i wont say who) that got a frame built around 1995 out of a nice selection of tubes but once built.. the top caps of his judys caught the downtube. Not his fault but a pain in the ass all the same.

    Theres so many other little details that you have to dodge before it turns into a great bike. To get something better than your fav bike first time around you will need a fair bit of luck (and a good builder) on your side.

    compositepro
    Member

    Some frame company boffs will easily tell you the truth if you ask them nicely. Theres been some right old F-ups that have been very costly to some over the past year.A shame,but they would have put their trust in a name they thought were building great stuff.. only to find out the truth

    .???

    My fave bike was a dbr the judy top caps also hit the down tube oh that was around 95-96 the handlebars also hit the toptube

    Premier Icon mick_r
    Subscriber

    Ramsey Neil – there are a number of geo tweaks that have only just started to come to market. In no way have the big manufacturers got things fully sorted.

    e.g. The easy route to keeping the wheelbase sensible was steep head angle and long rear end. This conveniently suited the available short rake / offset suspension forks (made using existing 26er crowns). Long rear ends are also easy to build with no tyre clearance issues, front mech compatability problems etc. All great – yes? Errr – no, not for everyone. I hated the 29ers I tried with this format.

    Slacker head angles and more fork rake can sometimes work better (e.g. I like 70 deg and 55mm) but there are no aftermarket or even general OEM suspension forks (only the Trek / Fisher specific forks have extra offset). So straight away that limits things (I went rigid only with my build).

    And to counteract the slacker front, people have started to twig that a shorter rear end can be good. But that creates lots of problems (mud clearance, chainring clearance, front mech gets in the way, seat tube gets in the way etc). So straight away a frame might be single ring specific. Or it needs a forward offest and severely slackened seat tube to clear the wheel so limits the range of saddle adjustment. Therefore it is a brave mass market manufacturer that goes that route. You might note that current Treks have long rear ends and hence front and rear wheels that reside in different timezones 🙂 Hardly cutting edge……..

    Only now are we starting to see production frames that combine slack front / short rear (Kona Honzo, Canfield Nimble 9 / Yelli Screamy, Singular proto).

    So going custom does still have a purpose – for my specific application, I think I got it right first time (and that was designed and built myself by hand from lumps of steel and brass). I can also get away with a design and tubing that suits my 64kg mass, as it does not have to pass EN fatigue tests based on a +100kg rider 🙂

    And I could be wrong, but I seem to remember jameso has a bit of experience in the industry……….

    Ramsey Neil
    Member

    I hope it all works out well and that we get to see the end product .

    Premier Icon pedalhead
    Subscriber

    Here’s the final result 🙂

    Just built it up last night. Frustratingly, I won’t get a chance to ride it today so I’ll find out on Monday if the work & waiting was worth it.

    (I know, the field is a mess)

    Premier Icon Andy
    Subscriber

    Nice looking. Light too i’ll bet. What seatpost please?

    Premier Icon pedalhead
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    cheers yep it’s about 20 lbs with alloy bars, M4 braided brakes and medium weight wheels. Post is an Eriksen”sweetpost” which has the best clamp around imho.

    Premier Icon Andy
    Subscriber

    Thanks Pedalhead – will have alook at those as am keen to run a Ti post in my Pegasus – need a 430mm though.

    Premier Icon pedalhead
    Subscriber

    have a chat with Kent, I’m sure he can sort something out. This post matched my previous Pegasus very nicely 8)

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