26 vs 650b vs 29 wheels

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  • 26 vs 650b vs 29 wheels
  • butterbean
    Member

    Just accept that it is here and if you don’t like it, then don’t buy it – there will be tons of 2nd hand parts available for your 26″ (according to your argument).

    Exactly. Just because the users of STW want to boycott a wheel size doesn’t mean it’s not a viable option. It’s here. Fork manufacturers, wheel manufacturers & tyre manufacturers are all fully on board. The next point will get Rusty in a frothing frenzy, because said manufacturers are already beginning to phase out production of some key parts for 2015 MY. Forks, tyres etc.

    As for secret meetings, cartels & conspiracy theories between all the manufacturers to drive this to market, that’s a proper LOL. Half the manufacturers have outstanding lawsuits aimed at each other claiming patent infringements, copyright etc. You really think they all sat down together & thought this through? Give me a break. We can’t even get our own product to market when intended more than 50% of the time, let alone have an on mass co-ordinated multi-brand new industry standard launch & I work for one of the biggest bike manufacturers in the world. 🙄

    Premier Icon roverpig
    Subscriber

    I don’t think anybody (without a tinfoil hat) really thinks there is a cartel at work here. I’m annoyed that everybody seems to be jumping on the 650b bandwagon because I want to see a proper test of the advantages of this new wheel size and for that we need some people to keep pushing 26 (just as happened with 29ers). If they all jump together then the change happens whether there is any advantage or not. If some change and some don’t then we get a discussion and the market decides. That’s how product development (and evolution in general) is supposed to work. You release a new product into a market and if it is deemed to be better then it takes over, but we seem to be missing a crucial step here.

    And just to make it perfectly clear, I’m not against 650b as a wheel size. I’m sure it’s a perfectly viable option. What I’m against is a switch from one viable wheel size to a slightly larger one with no evidence being presented that the new one is any better.

    Euro
    Member

    What I’m against is a switch from one viable wheel size to a slightly larger one with no evidence being presented that the new one is any better.

    Lets ask physics to help us a bit on this. Pretend we have two wheels that are pretty much identical but one has a slightly larger diameter (and a slight weight penalty).

    Can we agree that a bigger wheel rolls over bumps a bit easier than a smaller one?

    Can we agree that a bigger wheel turns (not rotates) a bit slower than a smaller one?

    We’ll stick with these two for now, just to keep it simple.

    Hands up would like a bit of help rolling over bumps when out on the bike.

    Hands up who has trouble changing direction when out on the bike.

    I’d guess that more people need a bit of help getting over bumps than turning. Would a marginally bigger wheel not be a good idea then?

    Junkyard
    Member

    I cannot speak for you but I often need to do both at the same time and dont really struggle with either

    forzafkawi
    Member

    Hands up who wants heavier wheels and tyres on their bikes that are harder to accelerate?

    Hands up who wants to shell out shedloads of money for a new bike with dubious benefits over the old one?

    Wot, no takers?

    Euro
    Member

    Then you aren’t going fast enough 😀

    I’m not suggesting everyone one does, merely hinting that some folk might need a bit of help getting over stuff (an advantage of a bigger wheel). No one has ever gone on a skills course because the can’t turn the handlebars have they?

    Euro
    Member

    Hands up who wants heavier wheels and tyres on their bikes that are harder to accelerate?

    Slightly slower to accelerate? Probably marginal (just like the advantages) but unless you’re racing at a top level, then what odds?

    Hands up who wants to shell out shedloads of money for a new bike with dubious benefits over the old one?

    Hands up who’s being made to buy this stuff?

    Right, i’m fed up trying to be diplomatic and not offend people so here it is…Most people can’t ride a bike for shit and need all the help they can get. A bigger wheel makes it easier for them to feel like they’re not crap on a bike. All the industry is trying to do is make them feel better about themselves. 😀

    bellefied
    Member

    forzafkawi – Member

    Hands up who wants heavier wheels and tyres on their bikes that are harder to accelerate?

    Hands up who wants to shell out shedloads of money for a new bike with dubious benefits over the old one?

    Wot, no takers? keep the bike you have then, what’s wrong with that option?

    And if you want a new bike, just buy one of the 26ers that are still available and if there are no new 26ers cos only 27.5ers are available then buy the used 26er bikes or second hand 26er parts that will flood the market as everyone switches to 27.5ers (again, not my argument, but the logical conclusion of yours).

    Seems a win win situation for everyone 😛

    butterbean
    Member

    Right, i’m fed up trying to be diplomatic and not offend people so here it is…Most people can’t ride a bike for shit and need all the help they can get. A bigger wheel makes it easier for them to feel like they’re not crap on a bike. All the industry is trying to do is make them feel better about themselves.

    Whilst i’m neither pro or against different wheel sizes, they arn’t really trying to do that.

    All they are trying to do is what they have always done. Make some money.

    Some are singing it’s praises more than others, some are pushing the marketing hard, some are non plussed about that side of things & simply stating it’s what people want, but it doesn’t make much difference, yet they are still doing it because it’s what people are asking for (on the whole) in Santa Cruz’s case. Point being the Bronson is the best selling bike of the year for them.

    nikk
    Member

    This is a circular statement.

    bellefied
    Member

    nikk – Member

    This is a circular statement. what? wheels in general? 😀

    Premier Icon roverpig
    Subscriber

    @Euro. That’s more like it 🙂 Finally an argument I can identify with (not being able to ride for shit myself)

    Euro
    Member

    Whilst i’m neither pro or against different wheel sizes, they arn’t really trying to do that.

    All they are trying to do is what they have always done. Make some money.

    My post was, in part, in jest but making mountain biking easier is a great way to make money. Lighter, better suspended, better braked, more responsive and the rest – all make it easier. That’s not a bad thing on the whole, but it’s not a new thing either. That’s why i can’t understand the ‘anti’ guys.

    edit:

    @Euro. That’s more like it Finally an argument I can identify with (not being able to ride for shit myself)

    😀 luckily it’s still great fun whether you are crap, awesome or somewhere in the middle.

    forzafkawi
    Member

    Slightly slower to accelerate? Probably marginal (just like the advantages) but unless you’re racing at a top level, then what odds?

    That’s the whole point of the anti argument against 650B. It’s all just marginal pluses and minuses so there’s absolutely no point over 26″ other than marketing BS. Keeping the bike you have is the only sane option.

    Premier Icon jameso
    Subscriber

    Marginal gains can all add up. Whether you want them or not or whether they work out to be a gain for you is another matter.

    All they are trying to do is what they have always done. Make some money.

    If I wanted to make big bucks I wouldn’t work in the bike industry. No-one would. Sure some companies do ok and an MD of any multi-million company earns well, but people do it largely because it’s a good place to be and they value enjoying work doing something they love over ££££££. The purely money-driven types tend to do other stuff.

    heavier wheels and tyres on their bikes that are harder to accelerate?

    Within normal reason, a non-argument for bikes ridden over rough ground.

    Euro
    Member

    It’s all just marginal pluses and minuses so there’s absolutely no point over 26″ other than marketing BS.

    I agree, but all the pluses seem to be in the areas that new/less skilled riders will find useful.

    Keeping the bike you have is the only sane option

    forzafkawi
    Member

    Marginal gains can all add up.

    Yes they can but you seem to be assuming that it’s all gains and no deficits. 650B can work out to be a zero sum game.

    forzafkawi
    Member

    I agree, but all the pluses seem to be in the areas that new/less skilled riders will find useful.

    OMG! (that’s the clean version of what I said when reading this statement).

    Premier Icon jameso
    Subscriber

    I said they may not add up for you ) There’s almost nothing on a bike that isn’t a case of pros and cons.

    Euro
    Member

    What was the dirty version? 😉

    Premier Icon jameso
    Subscriber

    all the pluses seem to be in the areas that new/less skilled riders will find useful

    ..like slack head angles that the average rider as well as Pro DHers also like? Anything that adds stability can help a new rider as well as a Pro at speed. You can have too much, but then you can always go faster too, skills allowing.

    timbo678
    Member

    Some great points on here, I mean that genuinely! I also believe in live & let live therefore my frustration is with those posters whom haven’t ridden 650b but still deride it and reckon those that do are idiots. I bought mine inspite of the wheel size because I liked all the rest of the features, it feels better & I do ride faster on it…but I will never convince you of that by writing on here a thousand times.

    Next time you’re in the market for a new bike I recommend you try them all with an open mind and see what suits you best, but until then enjoy your 26 & let us enjoy our clown wheels.

    I asked before and will ask again…..

    Why didn’t they just make the wheels really 27.5?

    bellefied
    Member

    chestrockwell – Member

    I asked before and will ask again…..

    Why didn’t they just make the wheels really 27.5? because they weren’t really re-inventing the wheel (see what I did there!) they were using an existing wheel size that is used in other cycling formats (such as touring) – a bit like how the 26″ wheel came to be used

    mt
    Member

    “Why didn’t they just make the wheels really 27.5?”

    that’s the next big thing for all those that blindly follow the industry, who love to be marketed at and sold the answer to a question never asked. That’s consumerism for you, we need these people to make the world econonmy flow. We are all as cyclists expected to buy wheels (and frames) in lots of sizes to save the capitalist system.

    Have parked my next purchase to see what happens, given that I always get 5 years plus out of any bike. I do own a number of them mind.

    Premier Icon roverpig
    Subscriber

    Euro:luckily it’s still great fun whether you are crap, awesome or somewhere in the middle

    Now that’s something that we can all agree on surely.

    I was out on my bike yesterday. I had a great time; on a 29er of all things! Not that I gave the size of the wheel a moments thought as I basked in the joy of having the hill to myself as the sun went down then swooped down through the trees in the last of the light.

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