Yeah, killing the planet and lining the pockets of shareholders with money that has been extracted from the pockets of bill-payers. It’s daylight robbery plain and simple. I have literally no idea why people like yourself are defending them.

So don’t buy the product they’re selling if it’s so simple?

I’m not defending them, I’m just surprised by peoples levels of delusion on the subject.

In any other walk of life if you bought a product you’d probably accept that it has a carbon footprint attached to it and hopefully think of ways you could minimize that.  Then you go fill your car up with petrol and blame an energy company for destroying the planet 🤷‍♂️

killing the planet and lining the pockets of shareholders with money that has been extracted from the pockets of bill-payers.

Nope.  As above BP could give the stuff away, someone in the buying and selling chain between them and you would still make the profit to sell it at the ‘market rate’.  BP are not directly responsible for your energy bill, that comes down to good old fashioned supply and demand and the the global commodities trade.   (OK, so BP are part of the supply side but the big change has come about thanks to Russia)

This thread is an amazing combination of righteous anger and total ignorance of how markets work…

@footflaps its not got too bad yet, read facebook posts on the subject, its all a conspiracy.. ;0)

BP & Shell are massive constituents of the LSE / FTSE100, they pay huge sums in dividends to pension funds, they employ many thousands,

the share prices have barely recovered back to pre-pandemic levels,

As a shareholder I’m not a fan of the buybacks, in theory they buy 2.5% of the total shares , fewer shareholders (97.5%) so each share should be worth more. it rarely happens in practise.. boost eps short term and they overpay for them, when they could be reinvesting in renewables. other pro’s and cons too..

crazy I’m up 15% this year on my portfolio heavily un-diversified in oil and uk banks

Nationalisation of BP is for the birds; we know they have talked with gov to make clear they have options to change their domicile – as other global companies with UK HQs will also have done. Basically, back off or we move.

All UK pension investments – other than any which are 100% ‘ethically’ invested – will include BP which will always be a consideration.

UK accounts for c7% of t/o; profit % is far less.

Share price has doubled in 12 months so…good news for shareholders aka the owners.

BP publish a report which shows their performance in each country in which they trade; have a look to see how insignificant the UK is in their world

Sorry to interrupt but does anyone have an explanation for the numbers cropping up on the left in this thread?

Sorry to interrupt but does anyone have an explanation for the numbers cropping up on the left in this thread?

Righteous anger threshold counts 😉

When they get to 100 the poster explodes is a puff of smoke.

When they get to 100 the poster explodes is a puff of smoke.

Not just any smoke, this would be carbon neutral smoke

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Yeah, killing the planet and lining the pockets of shareholders with money that has been extracted from the pockets of bill-payers. It’s daylight robbery plain and simple. I have literally no idea why people like yourself are defending them. 🤷‍♂️

Presumably you don’t have electricity or gas supplies at your house?  I hope you’re proud of yourself, propping up Big Candle.

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Sorry to interrupt but does anyone have an explanation for the numbers cropping up on the left in this thread?

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Yes, it’s explained in an article on the right of this thread.

Credit where it’s due – Now you can show your appreciation of great forum posts

Christ the “fancy editor” is shit.  It can’t even render its own content reliably.  Oi @Mark, have a word, this is unusable.

TBH I thought we were having a retro revival of calling people out as a ‘div’

Christ the “fancy editor” is shit.  It can’t even render its own content reliably.  Oi @Mark, have a word, this is unusable.

Is that why I have to manually type the quote things now? The button just inserts a blank space…..

I understand just fine. They’ve made billions by doing nothing and are using that money to enrich their shareholders rather than paying it back to the bill-payers who it’s been stolen from. It’s as simple as that.

Simple ?

feel free to process your own petrol from crude oil. After of course you’ve extracted that crude from its 6000′ depth..

Keep in mind the average cost of an oil rig is £600m, so a little bit of an outlay before you get started.

Well £600m, then the cost of refinery processing.

That sounds simple to me. 😛

I did find yesterday inserting some pics that it liked to use white letters on a white background in the url which was amussing.

It’s as simple as that.

Paging David Dunning and Justin Kruger to the forum….

.

600m for an offshore platform? If only!

More like 4bn upwards based upon costs for Glen Lyon, Clair Ridge etc

Hmmm. ‘Olii’, anagram of I Oil.

To put things in context. BP also reported a $20billion pre-tax loss in 2020 as a result of the pandemic, following 6 years of low oil prices and the longest downturn in <span style=”font-size: 0.8rem;”>history that cost tens of thousands of jobs. Markets work both ways. </span>

Orstead, Europes largest wind power generator reported profits of £3.84billion in 2022. They also received £4billion in subsidies from the government while benefitting from high electricity wholesale prices.

As a society, we’ve gotten drunk on cheap energy for years and squandered the savings. Yes it’s shit, but the reality of energy is it’s demand based. Waste/consume  less as a society and the demand and thus price will fall – see 2020 when oil fell to $10/bbl.

Ironically, BP and Shells bumper profits may help to stabilise the pension funds that were hammered by Truss-bots Kamikwasi budget.

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Is that why I have to manually type the quote things now? The button just inserts a blank space…..

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The blank space is a quote.  Intuitive, isn’t it.

**** hell.

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‘I wonder what the UK would be like had we not privatised BP in 1987…’  Smaller – why should the UK benefit from oil production in other countries?

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Can you explain the source of profits for oil companies such as Shell, BP, Exxon Mobile, etc. if they don’t own the resources they extract? It seems nothing but pure luck that their profits have increased dramatically while their operating costs remain unchanged. The argument that hard work deserves rewards doesn’t seem to apply here, especially when given the harm to small businesses, communities, and families. If this isn’t a case for heavy windfall taxes, then I’m not sure what is.

Maybe it’s tinfoil hat time, but the situation appears to be a result of organized price gouging to compensate for pandemic-related losses. In a free market, the business agreement only works if individuals can walk, like someone mentioned, but that’s not possible in this situation. Is it too far-fetched an idea to think that this is an orchestrated effort to increase profits lost during in the pandemic?

In Spain, I’ve personally seen a decrease in my energy bill, but I understand that the oil companies used their political influence to reduce a windfall tax that would have generated 4 billion euros for struggling households. Given that oil companies are essentially cash machines, I can’t buy into the “poor old oil companies” line.

why did you sell, was it a short term buy, i bought in 2021 sat on 7-8% dividend pa. got in a 310-315 so would need a disaster to lose money now.

Didn’t sell them all. I’ve been trading them up and down since ‘rona. I think the lowest I bought at was £1.90 and then just kept buying and selling as they bounced up and down. Covered the losses on some of my spectacularly bad trades 🙂

I think i had about 20k worth at one point, but sold stacks of them for reasons above 🙁

Sold some this morning as well.

BP are one of the many local drug dealers.

They sell something that’s not good for us, but facilitates an easy life. We’re hooked. Addicted. We buy more.

There’s huge width drawl symptoms we have to escape.

We are the ones that need to change, not them.

We have to find alternatives.

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<div class=”bbp-reply-author d-flex align-items-center flex-wrap”><span class=”bbp-author-name”>fatmountain</span>
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Can you explain the source of profits for oil companies such as Shell, BP, Exxon Mobile, etc. if they don’t own the resources they extract?

In very general terms, because the UK is different to the US is different to Kazakstan, is different to Nigeria.

In the beginning, you get an exploration license, in very simple terms this gives you first dibs on anything your find.

You go exploring for oil which involves drilling lots of wells from a relatively small ring.

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You (hopefully) find oil.

You then go back to the government for a production license.  This might be a fixed rate per barrel, a percentage of the commodity price, or whatever they want to set it as.  IIRC most UK licenses are a fixed fee per barrel.

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Then you build or hire a production rig, and potentially build a pipeline, or a tanker, or several to service it.

Then (realistically a decade after the process started) you start production.

Then you deal with a cyclical market, there will be years when you make obscene profits, and there will be years when you make obscene losses because that $2billion oil rig full of expensive kit and engineers costs a few hundred million a year to keep running.

Then after all that, if the country you just spent billions in is Russia (sanctions) or Nigeria (JV ownership structures and liability) you’re f***ed.
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That’s just rude petty name calling!

Only way they’ll make less profit is if we buy less.

They’re moving into green tech but that’s a slow process.

Sell man a car he needs oil and fuel for life

Sell a man an EV….

It’s happening but businesses are working out how best to make money down the line.

Consumerism is the issue and we’re all guilty of it. Some more than others.

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<div class=”bbp-reply-author d-flex align-items-center flex-wrap”><span class=”bbp-author-name”>duncancallum</span>
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Only way they’ll make less profit is if we buy less.

They’re moving into green tech but that’s a slow process.

Sell man a car he needs oil and fuel for life

Sell a man an EV….

It’s happening but businesses are working out how best to make money down the line.

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Consumerism is the issue and we’re all guilty of it. Some more than others.

This +1

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Want to know where that £23billion comes from, just look at the T5 section of your local trail center and the threads moaning about how they cost £120 a week to fill with diesel.

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Only way they’ll make less profit is if we buy less.

Not sure it can work like that. We all need oil because for better or worse that’s the way our society and economy has been designed and constructed. I don’t want to consume oil but for now I have to because it underpins the entire economy. It’s a bit like saying we can’t reduce air pollution until we breathe less air. The only way we’ll ever wean ourselves off oil is if governments decide to make it happen, and the first stage is to either take over the oil companies and/or force them to wind down their fossil fuel operations in a managed decline via govt policy.

Instead the opposite is happening. Not only are we allowing them to expand their oil operations and shrink their investment in renewables, but we’re also allowing them to pocket billions in unearned income in a direct transfer of wealth from bill payers to shareholders. It’s a monopoly which needs to be broken up and put out of business, for all our sakes.

There is an EFT fund (ticker is ESIE). You can invest via a stock n shares isa, where your profits are not taxed.

It’s made up of a few euro oil compainies… about 30% Shell and about 20% BP. Both declaring massive profits this past week.

It’s up 2% this week, and 26% over a year.

Certainly not an ethical investment, but if you had £10k and put it in a year ago (as the tanks lined up on the Ukranian border)… it could cover your increased household fuel costs. Obviously…  It would be way better to invest in solar panels and negate this whole dirty business.

Just saying…

Not sure it can work like that. We all need oil because for better or worse that’s the way our society and economy has been designed and constructed. I don’t want to consume oil but for now I have to because it underpins the entire economy. It’s a bit like saying we can’t reduce air pollution until we breathe less air. The only way we’ll ever wean ourselves off oil is if governments decide to make it happen, and the first stage is to either take over the oil companies and/or force them to wind down their fossil fuel operations in a managed decline via govt policy.

Anything but turn your thermostat down, drive less and go on less planes then?

Sure you can’t control the fuel choice of the smelter that makes the aluminum that went into your bike (i..e the big industrial users that you imply should be subject to government regulation), but that’s an absolutely tiny fraction of what goes into your house, car, holiday or food (specifically meat) energy.

Anything but turn your thermostat down, drive less and go on less planes then?

I’m doing all those things, but individual action is not going to solve the problem for obvious reasons. Loading the responsibility onto consumers is simple greenwash. This needs coordinated and urgent government action and intervention. Without it nothing will change.

Carbon footprint I think is a phrase invented by BP to make us feel responsible not them. Very clever really.

However we are depending on oil currently. Future fuels are not there yet.

We need to do more to reclaim energy not make more. So using waste heat etc. Waste gases.

I’m genuinely concerned that in 10/30yrs well all be forced into pcp agreements for EVs and the ability to buy a reliable car for 2k will have gone. You buy an old ev it’ll have no range and the cost of the cells won’t allow it to drop to banger territory.

Government and industry want us to consume to get tax and revenue. They’re using alot of greenwashing to trick us into this.

Carbon footprint I think is a phrase invented by BP to make us feel responsible not them. Very clever really.

However we are depending on oil currently. Future fuels are not there yet.

We need to do more to reclaim energy not make more. So using waste heat etc. Waste gases.

I’m genuinely concerned that in 10/30yrs well all be forced into pcp agreements for EVs and the ability to buy a reliable car for 2k will have gone. You buy an old ev it’ll have no range and the cost of the cells won’t allow it to drop to banger territory.

Government and industry want us to consume to get tax and revenue. They’re using alot of greenwashing to trick us into this.

What exactly is your conspiracy here?

That evil megacops in cahoots with the government are keeping you hooked on oil.

Whilst the same government is in cahoots with different evil megacorps to push you onto alternatives?

The planets f****ed because frankly no one will take personal responsibility for their own actions.  The “it’s the government’s job” line holds about as much water as a sieve, it’s a democracy, unless you actually voted green and made it a realistic prospect of either of the main 2 parties losing an election they’ll continue to do nothing of any substance. Same way Brexit would never have happened if UKIP hadn’t threatened their majority, the government won’t do anything for your climate issues for you unless losing an election is a possibility.

BP are one of the many local drug dealers.

They sell something that’s not good for us, but facilitates an easy life. We’re hooked. Addicted. We buy more.

There’s huge width drawl symptoms we have to escape.

We are the ones that need to change, not them.

We have to find alternatives.
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What’s the drug oil or energy? </span><span style=”font-size: 0.8rem;”>One is running out and other we need ongoing. The ‘We’ is ironically going to the Oil companies who are already rebranding as Energy businesses. </span>

On the evil shareholders a huge chunk are owned by Pension Funds which ultimately is you and me unless you’ve opted out.

I think we are being subjected to an expriment in order to find out how much can charged, keep pushing to  breaking point then reduce a little

Shell ,Bp etc will make want they want in profit, i have been trimming for years using less being more efficient with all things i can but am paying more.

If we all managed cut down to use a combined elec and gas of 2000kw of energy a year the price will simply rise to maintain tbe chosen profit number..probably be paying 2k for 2000kw rather than 2k for 15000kw

Folk who can afford it wont save the planet they will pay and carry on regardless, see rishy and his swimming pool, the fact it can be afforded misses the point

Supply and demand will not apply in the usual way.

If we all got ev today charging them up would become a huge cost probably 60 pound same as and ave fuel tank, this will be tax to replace the lost fuel tax

The world is being ruined by money and greed always has been but its getting much much worse, this used to be the preserve of corprate fat cats but now its filtering down to regular people..more more more more i see it everywhere

We will never save money on these things it will simply be recovered elsewhere into the same overflowing pockets

My point is just sheer consumption is the issue.

Regardless of how its fueled.

Follow the money who benefits? Not me….

The planets f****ed because frankly no one will take personal responsibility for their own actions.

Jeez. You really don’t seem to get this. Did any of us ask for any of this? I know I didn’t, I was just born into it. I’ve had no choice about the way our economic system has been organised in the past and very little influence over how it develops in the future. Your fantasy about changing things by voting green is exactly that, a fantasy.

Dunc has a point. Why do we consume too much? Because we’re encouraged and incentivised to do so by an economic system which doesn’t account for the use of finite natural resources and the damage they cause. Why does that happen? Because a tiny few very powerful people make an enormous amount of money out of it. Why are they allowed to do that? Because the political class are bought off by the same people. Why can’t we stop them and get them to do something else (ie by voting green)? Because our supposed democratic systems of government are not really democratic. Why are they not democratic and subject to change? Because they are controlled and influenced by the same people who benefit from the deadend and suicidal capitalist mindset. And so the downward spiral continues. Everything’s too hard to change, not possible, too uncomfortable, too unpalatable, not realistic etc. To quote a certain activist, blah, blah, blah.

Wake the f*** up.

well 478p upto 540p 10% since tuesday, clearly investor think BP will make them money in the future..