Home Forums Chat Forum 2021 America’s Cup

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  • 2021 America’s Cup
  • Jerome
    Free Member

    That Luna Rossa Race felt like a proper match race. If Luna had won the start and controlled the course, outcome may have been different .
    Hmm . Nz will be interesting match up.,

    Twodogs
    Full Member

    the fact that they were using a smaller jib than either of the other boats – this means they’ve got more power to come when they need it.

    or could it be they had to use a smaller jib cos they would be “overpowered” by a bigger one and less in control? Obviously I know very little* about sailing a 75ft foiling monohull 🙂

    * nothing

    Twodogs
    Full Member

    Nz will be interesting match up

    that’s a long way off

    yetidave
    Free Member

    The smaller jib thing, everything is a trade off, bigger sails is more power but more drag so maybe slower overall. So they test and test and for each windspeed they will have a preferred option. So maybe ours in that windspeed is less sail area for faster boat speed/vmg. These boats are about as complex as we know how to make a boat, no longer a waterline length wins argument. Hopefully many more days like that however…

    Rockape63
    Free Member

    How are people watching it?

    Twodogs
    Full Member

    Youtube

    sharkbait
    Free Member

    So maybe ours in that windspeed is less sail area for faster boat speed/vmg.

    Absolutely – but the having low drag and the best VMG is pointless if you can’t get out of the water.

    thols2
    Full Member

    The smaller jib thing, everything is a trade off, bigger sails is more power but more drag so maybe slower overall. So they test and test and for each windspeed they will have a preferred option. So maybe ours in that windspeed is less sail area for faster boat speed/vmg. These boats are about as complex as we know how to make a boat, no longer a waterline length wins argument. Hopefully many more days like that however…

    Interesting thing with the F1 connection. The way they work now is they gather data in Friday practice sessions, send that data back to HQ and run simulators overnight to decide on car setup, tyre strategies, etc. They have to deal with problems like tyres that are too fragile to last for even a single flat out lap, so they have to model how hard to push through different sections of their qualifying laps, plus predicting track temperatures. The Friday practice times are a pretty poor guide to Saturday qualifying and Sunday race pace.

    With AC boats, being able to model ideal boat setup for different weather conditions would be analogous. How you go in practice races doesn’t matter, all you’re doing is gathering data for when it matters. It could be that the results were just getting lucky with conditions that suited the boat, but it’s very reminiscent of Lewis Hamilton often looking off the pace on Friday, but nailing it when it counts. I guess we’ll know for sure in a few weeks.

    richmars
    Full Member

    That was tense! 2 minutes before out of time. Still fast in light winds!

    matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    Wahoo. That’ll do.

    Greybeard
    Free Member

    So they test and test and for each windspeed they will have a preferred option.

    Can they change sail during a race, as is normal for displacement boats? They wouldn’t want to lose enough power to drop off the foils, but if they’ve dropped off already (and are behind) anything’s worth a try. I also read yesterday that nobody has tried their Code Zero yet, and that Luna Rossa were reaching so high to stay on their foils that their downwind vmg was minimal – I haven’t seen video so maybe they did try it?

    Twodogs
    Full Member

    Having seen how long it takes them to get the jib off after the race I don’t think a mid race change would work …Even if it was allowed

    eddiebaby
    Free Member

    Blimey that was gripping. I really liked the cats but had reservations about going back to monohull but I was totally wrong. Excellent stuff.

    dantsw13
    Full Member

    That take-off in front of the spectators on the last leg was impressive!

    LD
    Free Member

    Jim Ratcliffe has history of sandbagging/bluffing!
    Also as far as I can tell all sponsors are Ineos companies so centrally controlled/pleased/displeased.
    Fun to watch on the nightshift though and here’s hoping they can keep it up.

    sharkbait
    Free Member

    10 minutes to change a jib so that’s never going to happen (plus they’re just not to go carry a spare sail around just in case…. Too heavy.

    Code zero would have too much drag once the boat was foiling. Do fun to play with but unrealistic given the race length.

    Vmg of 2 knots is fairly pointless so Giles decided that sometimes it was better to just point the boat at the mark as much as possible and go in displacement mode.
    AM wouldn’t like this as their hull shape doesn’t look good for displacement sailing.

    At the moment it’s looking like ineos and LR in the final, but AM will get back up to speed… Although tactically they’re looking a bit dodgy.
    The dinghy sailors show their worth in the very light stuff.

    richmars
    Full Member

    Wow, what happens when it goes wrong.

    thols2
    Full Member

    Well, that’s probably a fatal setback for the Americans. Hope the Cup is decided by boats getting wrecked in crashes.

    Greybeard
    Free Member

    Hope the Cup is decided by boats getting wrecked in crashes.

    Did you mean isn’t?
    At least the USA have 4 days to try to fix the boat before the next race.

    thols2
    Full Member

    Did you mean isn’t?

    Oops, yes. Hope it isn’t decided by crashes.

    matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    Good on Ben and crew, that was hard win won.

    Some leap out the water from AM. Anyone know more about the damage?

    eddiebaby
    Free Member

    INEOS were lucky about the first race being abandoned but the second attempt was good sailing.

    matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    Make America Float again?

    dannybgoode
    Full Member

    Not really been into sailing but this is good stuff. Not going to comment on the tactics etc as I know naff all about it but Kurds quite exciting.

    I did a single amatuer yatch race many years ago and did the odd go in a topper and laser as well as sailed round the barrier reef for a couple of weeks but never really be fully bitten by the bug 🙂

    dantsw13
    Full Member

    I’m not sure Ineos were lucky in the first, they’d just taken the lead with 2 laps to go.

    thols2
    Full Member

    Some leap out the water from AM. Anyone know more about the damage?

    They’re still towing it back to base. Apparently, there’s a hole in the hull that they had to try and plug to stop it sinking, which means that all the gear on board is going to be soaking in seawater. Electrical and hydraulic gear will need to be stripped out and serviced or replaced.

    Twodogs
    Full Member

    Seeing pictures of it being kept afloat by lots and lots of inflatable bags, it looks like they were very lucky it didn’t sink completely

    matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    Some pics.

    Bits being returned.

    Hole.

    eddiebaby
    Free Member

    They look so graceful and the size stops you realising at times guite how fast they are going. At 40knts there is a lot of power in that hull. 7,600Kg has got to dissipiate its energy somewhere.
    I’ve only ever been on one fastish boat that had backstays that needed releasing and that was just on a day out sailing in the top end of a force4 maybe a 5 at times. Lots of warnings from the boat owner about what getting it wrong ‘could’ result in, and that was on a boat that stuck to the water.

    Twodogs
    Full Member

    48kts round the corner 😲

    sockpuppet
    Full Member

    INEOS were lucky about the first race being abandoned but the second attempt was good sailing.

    It looked to me like they had coped the changing weather really well, and we’re about to take a good lead. Apart from the bit where they were sailing off the course! I’m in two minds – dealing the changing weather is one thing, but racing on in conditions that might destroy the boats is different.

    I’d have love to have seen them crack on and cope, but the thing that decides it for me is that the rules cover when changing weather triggers an abandonment, and the boats & tactics are built to win within that rule set. So for me the abandoned race was the right call. Still think Ben was in for the win either way.

    In a way I though the low wind and high wind racing both were interesting – especially with the limited changes they can have made over night.

    USA have a hard week ahead to get back it out on the water for round 3.

    Jerome
    Free Member

    Wow . Amazing racing. Bad news for America magic . I wonder if the other teams will be offering all the help they can. Bit of work to do there..

    dantsw13
    Full Member

    Don’t they have a spare boat too?

    Did the foil leg collapse on landing? Is that what caused the hole?

    thols2
    Full Member

    Don’t they have a spare boat too?

    I assume they build the first one to learn how things work, then the second one is refined based on the first one. If the first boat is as good as the second one, they wouldn’t bother building two.

    Bit of work to do there..

    Duct tape and a sheet of plywood should see it good as gold.

    Rockape63
    Free Member

    They should rename it the Donald Trump!

    Seems to be mirroring his recent disasters!

    matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    Did the foil leg collapse on landing? Is that what caused the hole?

    A couple of forum reports from Auckland are saying it is part of the foil control mechanism mounting & hydraulics that punched a hole through the hull, not foil failure.

    matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    The issue with rebuilding isn’t the carbon structure – it’s all the drowned electronics and electrics. They will be replacing a lot of components that at first glance are ok.

    I also suspect there will need to be a micro examination of a lot of mounting points for rig and rudder, foils etc.

    Jerome
    Free Member

    Ineos not as good in the strong winds, and America magic even better than Prada. Race conditions could well decide the outcome …

    thols2
    Full Member

    I also suspect there will need to be a micro examination of a lot of mounting points for rig and rudder, foils etc.

    Yes, when you think about it, the hull itself doesn’t really do anything when the boat’s at speed. There’s a structure that links the foil mounts to the rig and rudder, the hull itself is just there to keep it afloat when it’s not foiling.

    Then, even if the structure is sound, having to strip the entire boat and rebuild it, then get back out on the water and have the confidence to sail it on the limit will be a test.

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