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  • 2021 America’s Cup
  • jonesyboy
    Full Member

    Patriot sponsored by Airbus made me chuckle. As for Britannia – how very quaint, lets get the spitfire flyby ready as well huh?

    As @twodogs I’ve been windsurf foiling for a few years now, it’s transformed lightwind windsurfing 🙂

    Jerome
    Free Member

    Going to be interesting on the first race. As a current bowman , would love to see more of this.

    sharkbait
    Free Member

    As a current bowman , would love to see more of this.

    As an ex-bowman I’m glad it’s gone – that said my current ride (https://www.facebook.com/142980159117726/photos/corby-33-imposter-racing-at-abersochthis-design-is-being-relaunched-in-pre-preg-/889719247777143/) swings both ways!!

    Twodogs
    Full Member

    Envious! I was promised some time on a foiling board this summer in Portland Harbour but then Covid happened.

    If get a hint of another chance, grab it with both hands….it’s just fantastic!

    eddiebaby
    Free Member

    If get a hint of another chance, grab it with both hands….it’s just fantastic!

    I tried foiling windsurfers over 20 years ago, but they were surface piercing foils and completely pointless outide a very limited wind range.
    I will try it again.
    I tried a foiling kiteboard a few years back setup but my kiteboarding skills were never that great so that ended as well as can be expected…
    This was how foiling boards used to be…

    eddiebaby
    Free Member

    Just seen these INEOS pics:
    Wow.

    Thats a spaceship not a boat

    Twodogs
    Full Member

    Yeah I remember those..never tried one. Not sure if you’ve watched the Robbie Naish interview on Windsurfing.TV, but he doesn’t think the current design of foiling windsurfers are “right”…he admits he doesn’t know what right is, but thinks they should be able to go way faster

    eddiebaby
    Free Member

    Not seen that. I don’t really following windsurfing much these days. I’ll check it out.
    Foilwise it was always the issue of getting enough power to get you foilborne and then not having too much power/drag/weight from the rig. And when it gets windy it usually gets choppy, so ‘fun’ times ahoy!
    I will try one next summer. Looking forward to it.

    Jerome
    Free Member

    I’m on a prima 38 and love the windy days .
    But to be foiling at these speeds, must be incredible..
    One day maybe if the technology ever drips down..

    yetidave
    Free Member

    So, Day one of the Americas Cup – World Series. UK with a DNF and DNS. Cant system failure and had to abandon the second race as they tried not to capsize in the crowd. Not the start they were hoping for, but it looks like they have had issues for a while with the foils now. At least the US boat took a race off NZ.

    thols2
    Full Member

    Jesus, those things are scary fast.

    yetidave
    Free Member

    closing speeds are phenomenal, unless that is you don’t have control of your foils.

    matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    Jesus, those things are scary fast.

    Potential closing speed of over 100kmh…

    Twodogs
    Full Member

    they’ve been reporting for a couple of weeks that the british boat is well off the pace

    matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    they’ve been reporting for a couple of weeks that the british boat is well off the pace

    It seems more complex than that – it is slower to get up and going, but seems really quick in a blow, and seems to be (like Luna Rossa) quick in the turns. They have also had less development time on the water, with a few breakages and later start than others.

    We are still 4 weeks from the actual event, and while it looks a bit shoogly at the moment, I am not betting against Ainslie and crew yet.

    thols2
    Full Member

    Team NZ crash.

    matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    Dive, dive, dive..

    sharkbait
    Free Member

    I’m surprised the rig survived that…. Maybe bits of it didn’t.

    sharkbait
    Free Member

    On the plus side ineos is looking much punchier

    yetidave
    Free Member

    After the pre-christmas racing I was rather worried that there was a major technical issue with the uk boat. But they appear to have her going well now. Pre-start penalties and a poor gybe and capsize from NZ, and from what I hear today quite a bit quicker than Prada downwind. So starting to get in to a good place. Looking forward to next weeks racing where it really starts to matter.

    Twodogs
    Full Member

    From what I’ve read, apart from better starts, Ineos is still too slow compared to any of the other boats (capsizes not withstanding)

    sharkbait
    Free Member

    Maybe…. pre-christmas they were at least as fast as the others – they just had a problem with lift-off.
    I noticed the foil is very different now so they may have sacrificed some top end speed for better low speed lift.
    You’d have thought that with all the F1 aerodynamics talent in the UK they’d have this completely nailed!

    matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    On the plus side ineos is looking much punchier

    It is. The general consensus seemed to be that in a moderate+ breeze, in a straight line they are the fastest boat, from before Christmas. The issue seemed to be transition to take off, lighter winds and control during manoeuvres. Between possibly dodgy foils or the unsubstantiated software moans, they could see quite an improvement.

    sharkbait
    Free Member

    … and in displacement mode (non-foiling) they’re fast!

    matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    So, pray for howling gales or flat calm, nothing in-between…?

    richmars
    Full Member

    Wasn’t expecting that!

    thols2
    Full Member

    Well, how about that! Everyone wrote off the British boat a bit too quickly.

    matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    Well now.
    That’s great. Good on them.

    The question- what changed (apart from stinger wind) and was pre-Christmas just hiding thier potential?

    I know even a couple of weeks ago that commentators were saying when they got going they were the fastest top speed boat in a breeze.

    richmars
    Full Member

    Apparently, lots of work in the boat shed over Christmas, Ben also mentioned (twice) help from Mercedes GP, but still lots to do.

    Twodogs
    Full Member

    Cracking start…shows what I know! Hope they can keep it up in lighter winds

    sharkbait
    Free Member

    So, going back to my comment earlier about the F1 talent in the UK the Mercedes link makes 100% sense!
    I wonder if they were brought in just before Xmas?
    I bet they were…. Original foils were no good so they went to the best for help.

    How long after the Prada cup before we see LH on board for a ride?!

    Anyway, well done them….. Fantastic result.

    yetidave
    Free Member

    what changed

    I understand that they changed the mast, main, jib, rudder, elevator on the rudder, and how they control the foils. I suspect they changed the angle of attack of the main foils and some alterations to the foils themselves, as well as computer systems which control them. I think they also referenced they have changed how they use it all as well, as some other mods to the hull which arnt overly apparent to the naked eye.

    Greybeard
    Free Member

    Apart from what they’ve done with the boat, it looks like Ben lived up to his reputation as a helmsman, and that the fears that foils would negate the skills of match racing were unfounded. I think they may also have been lucky with the wind strength and a windshift at the start of one race (but they may have anticipated that). If they can win in lighter winds that would be cracking.

    Jerome
    Free Member

    Amazing. This could be an interesting race then.. Ben dominating in the starting sequencing is always impressive, the tactics are there, now they have the boat. We will see…

    yetidave
    Free Member

    good to hear that the protest by the Italians on the outhaul on Rita has no punishment, but does need to be resolved. https://www.livesaildie.com/breaking-news-luna-rossa-prada-pirelli-protests-ineos-team-uk/

    Not sure what the final outcome of the protest on the Italian boat is regarding the use of their running backstays which resulted in Prada using the running backstay in the racing today rather than leaving it off like they did before Christmas.

    dannybgoode
    Full Member

    understand that they changed the mast, main, jib, rudder, elevator on the rudder, and how they control the foils. I suspect they changed the angle of attack of the main foils and some alterations to the foils themselves, as well as computer systems which control them.

    But, as Trigger would say, it is still the same boat… 😀

    sharkbait
    Free Member

    good to hear that the protest by the Italians on the outhaul on Rita has no punishment, but does need to be resolved.

    It’s probably minor going on the fact that the boat measured fine before the event.

    Having just watched the races (with t a big grin on my face) what impressed me most was the seemingly very stable and low ride height that they never had before and the fact that they were using a smaller jib than either of the other boats – this means they’ve got more power to come when they need it.

    They knew they were down on power as the new rig has been in for about 2 weeks, so it was under construction probably at the end of November.

    On the first tack on the second race they were higher and faster than LR – and when Ken Read (who I lived and raced with in ’85…. did I mention that? 😉 ) says “…. Wow – that’s impressive” it actually means something!!

    Don’t go thinking it was ‘windy’ – most of the time the breeze they were sailing in was only about 13 knots with a few extra in the top right hand corner.

    Other thing I noticed was that the foils no longer hold water and are lacking the big visible trim tab that was there pre-xmas.

    TBH it looks like a rocket ship now. That combined with the fact that Ben and Giles Scott are both good yachters (I would have actually put Giles as being the better Finn sailor at the end – but that may be an age thing and he’s a bit taller and heavier than BA) makes for a potent combination.

    Time will tell but I think ALL the other teams will be pretty concerned at the moment.

    yetidave
    Free Member

    So it appears that Ben was sandbagging, or at least knew that certain upgrades were coming which made the jigsaw puzzle work and wernt maybe as concerned as the press were trying to making out. I hope they haven’t blinked too early and the others still can step on the gas more but later.

    sharkbait
    Free Member

    I doubt they were sandbagging or, if they were, it wasn’t by much. Don’t forget that they have sponsors to keep happy and deliberately looking crap isn’t a good look.

    But they obviously knew that the new rig was coming but uncertain of how much improvement it would bring.
    Foils and controlling system is a big one. More power from the rig obvs helps get out of the water but they’re really slick now and that’s because the boat is more controllable than it was before.
    This is a combination of foil efficiency, control hardware and software (I’m guessing it’s partly software controlled).
    A quiet, slick, boat is generally fast.

    supersessions9-2
    Free Member

    I have always had the impression that Ben Ainslie likes to be under pressure and come into a race as an underdog, or appearing so.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if the lack of performance in the previous series wasn’t entirely unintentional.

    He’s an interesting character and I think I read somewhere years back that he’s got psychopathic traits which is why he’s so good at this.

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