So one is thick because he came from a posh background and one is clearly bright and fit to lead because she got to where she was coming from a comprehensive background?

That is a very, very weird cognitive bias/fallacious argument – an argument from authority as long as they are from your own social background.

Rayner grew up in a very troubled environment and still rose to top is immaterial.

Yes it is, it’s been shown time and time again that politicians can rise to the top irrespective of ability – for various reasons, including blind luck, appeal to their voters base, cronyism etc.

Why Rayner instead of Cooper? I’m going to go out on a limb and say it’s not because Rayner is genuinely more qualified for the role than Cooper, it’s because Rayner becoming PM would make you feel validated. After all DazH, you have been very sure of your opinions in the past and the character of elitist middle class remainers, what better way to be sure that your world view is the correct one than have someone more like yourself in a position of power? No more feeling humiliated as an undervalued Northerner hey?

The ‘kid’ is making a fundamental mistake about the nature of a representative democracy, that his no doubt hero Churchill could put him straight upon.

The Referendum has no place within it.

But another one is going to be the only way out of this impasse if the Commons ends up as clogged as it was before it dissolved itself, and even then it’s a big ask.

Spain has just had its fourth General Election in as many years – we are not ‘special’.

Why are people talking about fibre broadband in 10 years time? 6G will be around then and is clearly a much easier thing to offer everyone than putting fibres to every single house.

Why are people talking about fibre broadband in 10 years time? 6G will be around then and is clearly a much easier thing to offer everyone than putting fibres to every single house.

I expect there will be an evolution of sorts. I don’t think you can nail something down such as 6G that isn’t quite tangible currently.

Looks like Tories are readying their ground-breaking campaign with … tax cuts

Libdems are offering a 1p income tax increase. Should be popular with a lot of people including me.

Why are people talking about fibre broadband in 10 years time? 6G will be around then and is clearly a much easier thing to offer everyone than putting fibres to every single house.

This.

6G might be around but probably so will gigabit fibre. Probably using the same cables we have now I’d guess. Gigabit fibre is possible now using the same FTTP tech I think. In a decade it could be multi-gigabit.

6G might be around but probably so will gigabit fibre.

Yep, but what is easier to install to every house? And what is easier to keep up to date as new faster technology arrives?

Cables are 90 odd% of the time better than wireless. Renationalising companies however is something that is taking a dark path of forced sale and not effective. If we had kept BT nationalised in the 80s and reformed it then yes it could work but we have taken a different path and trying to jump the company back to that model would be damaging to BT / open reach and the country’s image as a whole. After Brexit the last thing we need is to make the country look even more politically unstable.

1p on income tax? Sounds fine if it is across the board. More stable tax take, raises more money than adding more tax on “top earners”*, less of the it’s other responsibility to pay for xyz.

*To achieve a good extra amount of money from top earners a significant tax increase is needed on them and quite a few people who may be doing well but are not some sort of company owning mega rich get caught fueling a us and them mentality. Of course that’s what some people want to achieve..

I heard two Brexit gammon idiots (sorry but I was outnumbered) talking about the ‘cost’ of this and what it will do to the poor pensioner’s pension funds this morning.

I pointed out to them they will probably benefit in lots of tangible ways not least by the fact that BT’s share price had more than halved in the last two years … Hardly a support for a market economy is it?

Well she knows plenty about what Sure Start centres can do. Many of our politicians have no experience of the lives of people born further down the economic pecking order. Not sure she’s PM material either, but I wouldn’t rule her out of other roles just because she didn’t get through school. I have a relative that was heavily involved at Stockport College, which she attended, and giving people a second chance at further education is exactly what it aims to do.

Probably the only time using authority is justified. Positive discrimination works. When you have had centuries of ingrained institutional and cultural bias, it won’t change by accident, it has to be forced.

Only it never is the only time.
30 years after East Germans were allowed to leave … after decades of what they could and couldn’t say and do because it all turned out they had to be forced.

The irony being the reason the BXP took so many Labour votes is because many feel like they are being forced to accept things rather than being involved and convinced. It’s ironic because the BXP only has to listen without calling them racist, homophobic or anything except nationalist

It’s even more ironic because we have a very small percentage of immigrants who actually contribute positively to the economy…. but many are simply sick of the special pleading and refusal to discuss real issues or concerns (many of which are actually false, others just exaggerated) … because instead they are shut out of debate.

It astounds me that Labour haven’t elected a female leader yet… but telling the people sick of being given choices set by political agenda won’t make them feel included. (and that includes many women and ethnic groups)

but many are simply sick of the special pleading and refusal to discuss real issues or concerns

Ahh… you’re one of those.

Well done for not using the phrase “political correctness”.

Rhos seemed particularly interesting.

Perhaps the armchair psephologists might think again about the deal that the remain parties have made with each other only benefiting the LibDems.

Spain has just had its fourth General Election in as many years – we are not ‘special’.

We’re not even world class when it comes to being chaotic and totally rubbish.

Anyone listening/reading Johnson on radio 5?

I’m trying to read it, but it’s just such utter bullshit, and it should be obviously such to anyone with more than a couple of Brain Cells to rub together,

Worth remembering that pig head story was made up by the same team that brought you Brexit, as part of their aim of transforming the Tory party for their own purposes.

State run ISP?

What could possibly go wrong…

It’s even more ironic because we have a very small percentage of immigrants who actually contribute positively to the economy

Err, you sure about that? As I seem to remember that immigrants are a huge net contributor to the economy. I guess it could be that 5% contribute enough to make up for 95% who don’t but I can’t see that myself.

I think that was the point… he was saying that immigration is not “out of control” and that immigrants are a net benefit… but also saying that those who have been saying this, rather than “listening” to those who think and say otherwise, are the real problem. We’ve heard that argument many times before… “these people are wrong and prejudiced but how dare politicians say they are, or do anything to counter the problems of racism, sexism, homophobia, xenophobia in our country… it makes them look out of touch”.

Politicians have been “listening” to those blaming immigrants forever… it’s just that some (most now?) will use that experience to try and win the votes of those that think that way, and some (few now?) will try and change their minds.

> insert red “controls on immigration” mug img here <

Ahh… you’re one of those.

Well done for not using the phrase “political correctness”.

I don’t know if I am …. but I know plenty who are. It most certainly wouldn’t make me vote for Farage… (and my OH is an immigrant)

It really doesn’t matter what it’s called though or if their complaint is actually true if the matter can’t be discussed then it can never be resolved.

Do you remember that woman of Asian decent and her kid being told “this is England speak English”? The one in Wales where she was speaking Welsh? What I am saying is IMHO how we could possibly get to that.

Do you remember the another one? The woman who apparently was forced to remove her pottery pigs from her window-sill? I don’t know if this was even actually TRUE…. but you know what, it doesn’t matter because a whole load of people were keen to insist she was racist.
.. and guess who won? The trash papers getting per click/comment revenue.

There also was that whole 2015 inclusiveness report (albeit commissioned by Tory’s) but with findings supported by Chuka Umunna that got buried because it was “racist”.

and … FFS Corbyn is being accused of racism (under a guise of calling it anti-semetism)

if the matter can’t be discussed

If by “can’t be discussed” you mean “dominate public debate, the media and our politics in general”, then carry on.